STALLION HELP!

[minihorsecwgrl]

Hello everyone!

So I just bought this drop dead gorgeous buckskin stallion who is half brother to my amazing show gelding (I just couldn't resist having another from the same great sire!). But anyway, I am having the hardest time keeping his behavior in check when other minis are around, even tho he was in the same field with 10 other studs and on the same farm as 80+ minis before i got him....

Here is some background:

- He is 9 and has NEVER bred live or with a dummy

- hasn't ever been anywhere other than the farm he was foaled on until now at my farm

- complete angel until a mini (of any gender) gets into eye shot

- Did i mention he was handsome?

- Smart, smart, smart!

- he will stand and be loved on by people allllll day long and love it

-What happens when he sees a mini from another paddock: paces, screams, etc. then calms down

-When he sees a mini across the fence: rears, strikes at the fence, tries to mount through the fence, kicks

-He saw a mini in the stall near him this morning and jumped his stall door ( about three feet) from a standstill (i think he will be a jumper!)

-when i handle him I have a chain on him just in case, even though 3/4ths of the time he is a perfect gentleman. That other 14th of the time he rears, strikes and he is a strong little booger.

Here is my thing though, I have had him for 2 weeks now (Yes I know, he needs more time to settle in) and I already have people asking if I will put him up for stud even though i want to geld him this fall. I have heard that after their first live cover and even dummy collection they can get even worse with stud like behavior, BUT he is so handsome and has such nice conformation that i feel like he would produce some nice babies!

SO HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS:

Is it possible to collect for AI and then geld him so he could eventually become the sweet, chill gelding i know he will be?? Has anyone ever done this?

Is there anything I can give him to make it so his stud outbursts decrease until i can geld him if i decide to??

NO NEGATIVITY PLEASE! THIS IS MY FIRST STALLION AND I JUST NEED SOME HELP FROM FELLOW MINI OWNERS!

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

AI in horses is in the Stone Age compared to other species. I wouldn't even bother, collection and freezing will cost you thousands. Not sure how a mini mare could even safely be bred AI to be honest. My Semen tank alone was around $900. Plus nitrogen refills every 3 mos, guns, warmers, etc. I have about 1500 invested in AI supplies. Not even collection fees and packaging. (Side note: I breed cows on the side)

Talk is cheap- ask those people that so badly want to breed to him for a $100 booking fee for a spring breeding. If none pony up, geld ASAP for your sanity.

I'm going to be a little negative here, but 100% of all stallion problems come from either lack of training, poor management, unwilling to learn (or not as smart as the horse) handlers, fearful handlers, or unrealistic expectations. I understand you have only had him 2 weeks, so maybe he just needs more training.

I board my mini (stud) at a race stable. He is stabled between a Morgan stud, and my pony mare. There are probably 10-15 studs at anytime there. How many do we have issues with? 0. Some will whinny to others while going outside, but all are calm about it, so it's ok. We remember they are stallions and treat them as such. We don't stable them next to mares in heat. We don't expect them to be BFFs and lovey kissy nice with others (they are STUDS after all) and we expect that sometimes the brain between their legs will try to make a decision instead of the one in their heads, and it's met with a swift kick in the butt. No crap is tolerated ever. If a foot is moved out of place, we make them move it back. No cookies fed from hands to studs, and they are expected to behave.

My mini stud used to strike out, amongst other bad habits. It is not because he is a stud, but because he had zero respect for humans. Gelding WONT fix that. The last time he ever struck at me I booted him in the chest and grabbed his nose in with my nails. I did what another stallion would - strike back and bite his nose. Now he's a top in the state showmanship horse. At home he practices his showmanship at Liberty - no shank - in an indoor with fillies stabled at one end. He knows who is boss. But believe me, fearful of me he is not. We joke about how 'sarcastic' he is. Even as a quiet stud they all can and will cop a bit of an attitude. My cloudy's typical attitude is 'yeah I don't really give a crap if I can't eat it.' He exudes that everywhere he goes lol some of his show pictures are hilarious - you can just see on his face how little he wants to be in the ring and how much he wants to get back to the trailer and eat. Which on another note is why he's semi retired.

Now, step back and think - where is he stabled? Could he be moved to an area with less traffic? Is he getting enough exercise? Is he being treated like a horse? Could he be turned out at odd times when no one else (or just geldings are)? Are you expecting an intact stallion to act like your gelding? Are you handling him with confidence?

As far as the poor manners while turned out - that is him being a stallion. Even our most gentleman like racehorse studs will pace and whinny and be an idiot when turned outside next to a filly in heat. Expecting him NOT to is just entirely unreasonable. However I do expect him to listen to me on the lead shank past her. And they all do - but turn out is their time to be horses - and they will act like such. Same with the stabling, we have 2 studs and a filly in a row. Sometimes the studs pin ears at each other through the bars (usually feeding time.) but that is horses, that is what stallions do, I don't lose any sleep over it.

My advice would be to get him in a training program. Train him something - anything! Get his mind working and listening to you. Get him exercised. I like lunging with stallions. A lot more control than 'free chasing.' Make him halt, back up, side pass, change pace and directions on the lunge line. Get him moving out of your space - teach him to back up and side pass. Showmanship is good too - because all it is judging is how prettily your horse gets out of your space!

Anyone open minded and confident can get through a problem like yours easy peasy! Owning a stallion will make you an awesome horseman - they find your 'holes' and make them obvious to you! I have learned soooo much from my little man. My horsemanship improved hugely!

And post pictures! What is a new horse post without pictures?!

 

[chandab]

No stallion is too good to geld, if that was your plan from the beginning, don't let someone talk you into keeping him a stallion just because they think he is pretty and might want to breed to him.

There are a handful of people around here that are disappointed that I gelded my AQHA colt as a yearling, they liked him and thought they might want to breed to him; my plan was always to geld him and with him I had him from birth, so gelding him as a yearling before studly thoughts entered his mind was the plan, and I stuck to my plan. I don't regret one second of gelding him.

Are you ready for the headaches and liability of standing a stallion to outside mares? You'll want them to have a clean bill of health coming in, up to date vaccinations and deworming; facilities to keep someone else's mare safe for a minimum of a week, but more likely a month or two to be sure she took; you'll need to feed and care for those mares; likely need to have some sort of liability insurance. And, you can just about bet if the foal doesn't turn out as the mare owners think, that it's the stallions fault. [i have a breeding mini stallion, and I've turned down a couple requests for outside breeding, I just don't want the liability nor the headache.]

He probably does need more time to settle in. If you can work him out of sight of the other horses, at least while you are getting to know him better, it'll probably help. Gain that confidence with him before working him around the other horses. Keep yourself safe.

 

[minihorsecwgrl]

Thank y'all! He has improved immensely since i brought him home and i cant wait for him to settle in completely! Considering that he hasn't done anything but come into the barn for the farrier and occasional vet check i should give him more credit I guess

 

[amysue]

You have already gotten some great advice here. First, congrats on the new horse! Second, pictures please...seriously don't tease us with the news and then no pic to follow. I would give him time to settle in...but not tolerate any crap, period. They only pull what they know they can get away with. They may test, but if kept in check, they are okay. In my opinion, the only reason to keep a horse intact is to breed, if you do not plan to breed...GELD. Unless the breeder sold him with retained breedings, geld him. I am sure that if people want to breed their mares, they can pay the owner of the sire and you can let it be their problem. In my opinion (others may disagree) if a colt is worth breeding, the breeder would be wise to retain him for their program rather than sell in tact with breedings back. Sure, it is nice to get others to keep and pay for horses we would like to keep, but there are too many potential problems. Once gelded, Both of you will be much happier. A wise trainer once told me that having testicles does not mean a horse is any good...and removing them alone does not guarantee he will be any better. But...Training is key, gelding helps the hormonal aspect, but teaching your horse what is expected of him is key. Just gelding him won't cut it. You must set the boundary and enforce it consistently, he will not only respect it, but thrive on it. You are the boss and he must respect your space. Remember...all ponies are ninjas, and they all have a tiny bit of the Devil in them (since they're so short they're that much closer to heck) you don't have to call a priest or anything lol, just be consistent and firm with your training and do your best to keep him out of precarious situations where the brain between his legs may get him into trouble. Once a little one gets away with something, they think that they can do that forever. Good luck and congrats!

 

[Strangeaddiction]

I agree with what FurstPlace said, it sounds like he needs training and a job, whether you keep him a stud or not. I have a 3 yr old stallion, that again, no one wants me to geld, but I am not sure if I want to breed, but he has given me no reason to geld him yet. Why? Because he is a gentleman and has been since I started working him. He used to be very hard to catch but once he had a job he came running anytime someone went out to get him from the field. Now, the only time we have had issues with him being a little studdy, is recently, and that is because I have not been able to go out and work him regularly because we are in the middle of moving and my work hours changed. I've gone out and worked him a couple times and hes back to being a gentleman.

Again, I think if yours is good minded, he will settle in with time, training and a job. But if you have no desire to train a stallion, geld him. I think good minded stallions are a treat to work with, they give you everything they got every time they are in the ring, but you have to be willing to get them there and be willing to use tough love.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

I'll admit - my Cloudy's main purpose is not breeding.

I've had him 5 years. I've produced 2 foals - both to an 'outside' mare.

Why don't I geld him? Because I have NONE of the issues the OP described (anymore anyway, the first 3 mos were a little rough, but he was 7 and had never seen a halter, or farrier, no crap he was feral). He lives in a racehorse barn of "mini hating" people that LOVE him. They show him off to every big name trainer that comes through as their 'hot new prospect.' It's quite funny!

My last board owner loved him too. He'd let him wander while he did yard work. At night he'd often let him wander around the fire pit while they had supper. Said Cloudy was the best drinking buddy he's ever had! He comes and visits him at the racehorse barn.

As a show horse, he was top in the state in performance. If I geld him will he be super number one? I should mention he's 12 now too - any behavior from his brain between his legs is likely in the brain in his head too - hormones have made habits for him. He won't ever be a lovey nice dopey gelding. Heck he's so quiet as a stud I think gelding him would make him too quiet and dead to the world!

He's also a stud that HATES to show. Has a sour look on his face the whole time. Likes eating hay and being groomed; is good for everything, but blatantly doesn't like it. So he's my stud that doesn't breed or show.

But he doesn't scare me or anyone else, I don't need to work him to death to make him this way - he's a rare horse than totally understands how good he has it without any assemblance of a 'job' currently. I can manage him correctly.

There's never one answer for every situation, but if your horse scares you, you can't handle him on your own, he stressed you out, etc. then it's definitely time to geld.