stallions Investing??

[TPs flat rock acres]

Ok I have been looking at many different stallions. I have my eye on a few of them. I know someone said to buy the best you can afford well what would that actually mean. I know someone said no loan its not safe. I understand that but being a stay at home mom and not having large amounts of $$ that can be a problem with getting something that really nice. does one just get something they can pay cash for? I know someone as posted this before but am looking for more answers. What have some of you done?

Whats a smart by on a stallion. In other words for an age, pedigree what is reasonable for price? I have seen some that I would love to have but just dont have that kind of money.

Thanks

 

[sfmini]

There are some older stallions out there, so don't pass them by, or don't buy one and send your mares out to stallions instead.

 

[rcfarm]

I would send my mare out. Owning a stallion is a nice, but need to seperate from other horses. Cost you less in the long run if you breed to outside stallion. Just pick one of the best you can afford to breed too.

 

[kaykay]

Make sure whatever stallion you buy compliments your mares. You need to take a really hard look at them and buy a stallion that does not double up on their faults and compliments your mares what your goals as a breeder are.

If you cant pay upfront go for a payment plan. That is how most of us got going. Be sure to take out an insurance policy until the payments are done to protect your investment.

The market now is all over the place so a great stallion can be bought from 1000.00-10000.00

Be sure though to look at the whole picture (dont just look at pedigree or price)

 

[Becky]

I agree with Kay.

Most sellers are more than happy to 'finance' your purchase for the short term.

Don't settle for anything less than top quality. You won't be satisfied if you do.

 

[supaspot]

if you settle for what you can pay cash for l can guarantee you will be thinking of replacing him in the not too distrant future , if hes mediocre he may be hard to move on , if you keep him his foals probably wont sell (at least not to the type of home you want ) l know many people who have bought based on price and now have the heart break of selling (Ive done it myself in the past) , buy a horse that makes you go wow ! cause if you dont LOVE him no-one else will , if that means a payment plan then so be it , you will have to look at him for a very long time - its better if you like what you see out of your window

GOOD LUCK

 

[Marty]

Before thinking of stallion ownership the first thing I would do is review the mares I plan to breed. I would go back and take a good hard look at your mares and see if you truly want any of them to be replicated. And no, they do not have to be a top show horse with a show record because there are plenty of nice mares around who are breed worthy too. But conformation speaks volumes. You can post pictures of your mares here and there are some very talented people who can help you decide if you are unsure.

Then only if warranted would I be shopping for a stallion. It depends also on if you plan on jumping in the breeding world head first seriously or if you will be "dabbling" with it to see if that is really what you want.Never invest in something you are not sure of. Not ever farm needs to own their own stallion and if only breeding say one or two per year, it would be so much easier and cost effective to send your mares out to a stallion.

With me only breeding one or two horses every couple of years, It did not warrant me needing my own boys any more so I sold all my stallions and sent mares out. Now I have 100% female divas running the place. Best wishes you to in your future endeavours.

 

[Mominis]

This is just my humble opinion, but I say leave stallion ownership to the pros, especially if you are breeding with the intent to sell the foals. It is really more cost effective to own a superb quality mare or mares and then find the breeding stallion that best suits them individually and send them to be bred. By sticking with high quality mares, you can insure that you are breeding to the perfect stallion for each mare, rather than limiting yourself to just breeding to your own stallion, who may or may not nick well with every one of your mares.

Particularly important in today's difficult market is the promotion of the stallion. When you are marketing a foal, you don't want to have to explain who the sire is or what he's done. It should already be out there for the informed consumer to research on their own. The resulting foal will be much more marketable if it is sired by a stallion that has proven himself in the show ring and in the breeding shed. Stallion ownership involves so much: showing, promotion, stallion management, and managing the outside mares (if you select to stand him at stud). IMHO, it is just more trouble than it worth.

 

[TPs flat rock acres]

No don't plan on having him at public stud. I show dogs and its kind of similar with my breed of dog. Its not overly cost efficient owning a male if there are others that don't go to breed to him. where I am located there are not alot of stallions close by. I live way up by the canadian boarder in NY so when they come into heat without a trailer, with two young kids its not the easiest to bring my mare somewheres. I have the same problem with breeding dogs. I have a very good quality boy and very good quality girls and breed for my self first (dogs) so with horses will be doing the same. It took me many years to get where I am in the dog world and I am sure its the same in horses many many years. I want to do this on a hobby level. I want to breed very good quality for myself not to market them. I don't want the headaches of the "business" part of the horse world as its very time consuming and headaches in the dog world and know it can't be that much different in the horse world at least talking to those who are in both. Just would like a nice boy reasonable priced not high priced because someone want to make a good amount back. I am a small person just wanting to produce nice quality horses and maybe for fun dip my feet into showing or driving. I don't want to spend thousands and thousands of dollars on a top stallion if I am just doing it on a very small level. No sense in that. I would just like aboy that has the very good quality behind him that I can work with. Hope that makes sense. I don't ever plan on becoming so big that it becomes a business instead of a hobby I just can sit back and relax and enjoy

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

The best advice I was given, far after I had my first Minis was buy the best mares you can and breed to better stallions. A stallion is 50% of your breeding program. He can bring alot to the table, but can't correct everything. If you have wonky (not saying you do), but he can't be expected to correct overt flaws/faults. Then again if he has faults - bad legs, bite, thick neck, bad butt - you will have a herd of that.

Long story-short, I was given an 'opportunity' that was too good to be true years ago with a package deal. Being a novice it seemed wonderful and I bought 25 Minis in one big purchase. All the stallions were sold years ago and only a few of the mares were kept. A very expensive learning mistake on my part and it took years to correct. I'm always telling people don't make that mistake!

I've owned stallions since 2000, it can be a challenge at times, but I really enjoy the boys. Well not right at the moment when all are on full testosterone overload, but in general I like them, but I also won't hesitate to geld a stallion/colt. I expect my stallions to be easy to handle, non-aggressive and have certain qualities (conformation, movement, etc.) that work with the majority of my mare herd.

There are great deals out there, but you have to know conformation and pedigrees (if you want to breed I would highly recommend investing in both A & R online studbooks), you need to know what is desirable (conformation, pedigrees, looks, color, abilities) specifically for your area. Not that you won't sell nationwide or to Canada (or overseas), but most of your sales will be within a few hundred miles. With that in mind, what are they selling for in your area? Is there a market for what you want to produce?

As you breed dogs you know what that's like. You can have an uber-stud, but if there are a plethora of lower quality dogs available, you'll have a harder time justifying your prices if people are looking for pets versus show dogs. We're all facing that now. I see weekly Minis on Craigs List for $200 that is generally unregistered, often intact stallions or not very desirable 'broodmares'. It affects all of us that do try to breed decent Minis.

You can say your breeding for yourself, but what if you have all colts? Or years of all colt foal crops? Are you willing to geld them all? House them? It can happen. I have a friend that has had one filly in years of breeding (different stallions). It's hard to keep colts that are related to your mare herd, or daughters of your only stallion.

With Minis to raise a foal to weaning (4 months +/-), registration and keeping the dam/sire, you're easily over the $500 investment for that foal. So if you can't get that, and many areas can't right now. It's something to consider.

It might help you to network with people in your area and see if you cannot lease one for breeding. He comes to you that way, you don't have to send your mares out, but goes home too. Or see if there are like-minded breeders around that you can exchange breedings with, should you choose to own.

 

[Jill]

I agree with aiming for top quality and that many sellers are willing to allow short term payments. A single stallion can be 50% of your entire breeding program and it's crutial that he's got what you want to see (and read). They make horses every day so keep looking until you find the one you know is right.

 

[Riverdance]

In some cases I would have to agree with the others. There are many farms that will still allow payments. That is how I bought most of my horses. As long as you make the payments in the time frame that you agree to, then you have references for other purchases in the future.

I will disagree with Jill in that a stallion can be 50% of your breeding program. I was always taught that mares where 70% of your breeding program.( I bred and sold Morgans for years.) If you do not have good mares, no matter how nice your stallion is, you will just not get what you are looking for. Yes, you need to buy the best stallion you can afford, and there are some really good deals out there, but you have to have a good mare population to produce quality foals.

I would also not buy for pedigree, but purchase a stallion that has the looks that you like. Fads come and go. If you breed for what you like, at some time, the pendulum may swing your way. There are lines out there that are over done, and too many people are breeding those lines, even though the lines may not be what is winning today. There are also stallions that are winning with their get today, but when their get gets to be 2 to 3 years old, they fall apart. They make beautiful yearlings, but then get too coarse as they get older.

Do your homework, decide what look you like, then go from there. Check with the sellers to see if they will allow payments. Some will give you 6 months, others will give you a year so that it can fit into your budget. If a good stallion may be selling at a lower price, it could be a good deal for you. They may be moving, selling out or reducing their herd. Those can be the best buys.

 

[Kelsey - Vandy's Farm]

Ok I have been looking at many different stallions. I have my eye on a few of them. I know someone said to buy the best you can afford well what would that actually mean. I know someone said no loan its not safe. I understand that but being a stay at home mom and not having large amounts of $ that can be a problem with getting something that really nice. does one just get something they can pay cash for? I know someone as posted this before but am looking for more answers. What have some of you done?

Whats a smart by on a stallion. In other words for an age, pedigree what is reasonable for price? I have seen some that I would love to have but just dont have that kind of money.

Thanks

You don't have to spend a lot of money right now to get a nice stallion. For us, sure the pedigree is nice. You can say his dad showed and got this or that.... But, it really should be about the actual horse you are purchasing. Does that horse have good confirmation, color, personality, movement? A horse with an amazing pedigree can still turn out looking very mediocre. Most of my stallions don't have the top of the line bloodlines really close in their pedigree but they have great personality, good confirmation, movement and the color I want in my breeding program. They have held there own in the show ring and produce nice foals. I just bought a little stallion, that I think is pretty awesome. He has the most gorgeous head and that horse can MOVE like no other mini I have seen his size. He is only 4 years old and he's a black sabino overo. And we got him cheap! I paid between $600-$4,500 for my stallions. The nicest stallion I think we have right now, we paid $1,000 but we have to progeny hardship him into AMHA. So add another $600. Makes him more like a $1,600 horse.

So you can find great horses for great prices right now. You just have to know what to look for and sort them out from the crummy ones.

My show horse that ended up getting 4th in the Nation for youth pleasure driving a while back was a $600 horse

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

You can always pay for a breeding to a really good stallion that you could never afford to own. Plus, no hay or vet bills!

 

[Jill]

I will disagree with Jill in that a stallion can be 50% of your breeding program. I was always taught that mares where 70% of your breeding program.( I bred and sold Morgans for years.)

I think it may depend on bloodlines and the prepotency with where you are going, but what I meant is none of your mares will make a foal without a stallion, and you can have just one stallion for all the mares. Making him 1/2 of your program

That said, I personally hold our mares to as high a standard as a stallion. I wouldn't breed any horse where I wouldn't be thrilled with a duplicate of the "lesser" of the match

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I wouldn't breed any horse where I wouldn't be thrilled with a duplicate of the "lesser" of the match

That, my friends, says it perfectly! I think we all should be looking at it with this perspective.

 

[Kelsey - Vandy's Farm]

That, my friends, says it perfectly! I think we all should be looking at it with this perspective.

I agree

 

[manelyminis]

As another poster mentioned, you could lease a stallion which gives you the experience of owning one. It has a lot of advantages. Most people will allow you to lease a stallion for a year for free, provided you give him the best of care - vet, farrier, worming, shots, feed, hay, etc. That way you are not out the money to buy one. Then when the first foal crop arrives you can see if that stallion crosses well with most of your mares by what the babies look like. Then you can decide if you want to lease him for another year, or maybe even purchase him at that point if you like what he produces, or you can just give him back at the end of the year and try another stallion on lease. It's kinda like "try before you buy". Leasing a stallion may also help you decide if owning a stallion is really what you want to do.

As far as what you need in a stallion (or a mare) for breeding, I know this sounds difficult but I want it ALL - conformation, pedigree, color, temperament. I don't settle for less and it can be done even on a small budget like mine, especially nowadays with the bad economy and the horse market being so low. Everyone has their preferences as to what they like in their horses and fortunately for all of us, miniature horses come in a variety of choices. I was told by a very well known breeder when I first got involved with minis years ago that some people will buy minis strictly on looks/conformation, some will buy strictly on pedigree, some will buy strictly on color, and so on and so on, so breed for what YOU like. I have worked hard and done my best to make sure most of all of my horses all have nice conformation, pretty heads and necks, very good pedigrees, nice personalities and lots of color. I like ALL those things and strive to produce it. It's challenging but a lot of fun.

Another poster mentioned her horses who have won National titles and she bought them at very low and affordable prices. I have done the same thing. Always stay with "quality' on all your purchases, stallions and mares, but that can be done at very reasonable prices even on a small budget if you just do your homework, shop around and don't get in a hurry. Quality doesn't have to cost a lot of money, especially in today's market.

 

[Jill]

That, my friends, says it perfectly! I think we all should be looking at it with this perspective.

I agree

Thanks, ladies

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

I don't understand why mini people don't breed to stallions they don't own Everyone has to own their own herd stallion. Why is it so rare to ship to a local stud?