Strong Hip

[countrycharm]

Could someone maybe draw on a picture with lines? i liked the description night flight but i just cant picture it on a horse and get a lil confuzled

what are we actually looking at?

 

[nightflight]

1. Muzzle

2. Chin

3. Cheekbone

4. Jowl/law

5. Throatlatch/Gullet

6. Poll

7. Crest

8. Wither

9. Back

10. Loin

11. Point of croup

12. Croup

13. Dock

14. Shoulder

15. Point of Shoulder

16. Ann

17. Breast

18. Elbow

19. Forearm

20. Knee

21. Cannon

22. Fetlock

23. Pastern

24. Coronet

25. Hoof

26. Barrel

27. Brisket

28. Belly

29. Point of hip

30. Rank

31. Thigh

32. Point of Buttock

33. Stifle

34. Gaskin

35. Hock

http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/warmbloodhorses...db-pelvic.shtml

Article about why it is important.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Sandy,

I love Summer!

 

[alongman]

I chatted with a A/R judge last summer and she mentioned something I remember: she said she looks for the horse to be divided into thirds--so the hip area should be wide/strong/big enough take up the back third...

Is that accurate?

Barnbum - I would say that it's roughly accurate. A well proportioned horse has to have a good hip to be functional in my opinion. If you look at some of the best moving ponies, you will note that they have nice angle to their shoulders and long hips that allow the legs to attach and move well. In the mini world, according to the AMHR rules, no credit is given to movement, so I have to base my opinion based on what a strong hip would provide.

 

[SBrown]

This is one of our stallions, Bolero Blue.

 

[wildoak]

Strong hip in motion - Not the clearest picture, but this mare has a powerhouse hip. (She also does have a neck, just doesn't show with winter hair at this angle LOL)

And a 2 year old Affirmed Royalty stallion with a nice hip.

Jan

 

[yellerroseintx]

Ok..I get confused also

.....posted are all the GOOD hips..here is a filly I posted that was said to have a WEAK hip...hope this helps for comparism

 

[HJF]

I personally like this filly's hip. This picture shows it the best I think..this was her first clipping before show season- she's a yearling

And this gelding I think has a nice hip too pictured as a yearling as well

 

[Margo_C-T]

With all due respect....

Three quarter rear views are not the best to illustrate whether or not a horse has a 'strong hip', so aren't really very illustrative, one way or the other. A full, UNSTRETCHED and square, side view at the horse's level,AND, a full rear view, horse standing squared, and at the horse's level, will be the most useful in attempting to evaluate from photos(while remembering that photos are a 'poor second' to 'in the flesh' observation!)

On this thread so far,(and discounting 3/4 rear views), I have seen only a couple where I felt a truly 'strong hip' was likely being seen. I have seen several that DID have good LENGTH from the point of the hip to the point of the buttock, AND a relatively good(read: REASONABLY sloped-neither too SHALLOW(the truly "FLAT" croup)nor too STEEP('apple-butted'; almost always accompanied by a too-low set tail). Some also have very acceptable length from the point of the buttock to the stifle, as far as the skeletal structure goes; these are good things! Where miniature horses often are "lacking", however, is in having sufficient MUSCULAR development through the 'britchen' area-meaning the area basically ID'd as the 'thigh'(a term I've almost NEVER heard applied to horses, so don't think it's in wide use throughout the horse world!)in the drawing put up(which, while clearly of a Arabian, contains some terms either not familiar to me,or misprints, or mislabeled, in my experience...perhaps it is from another part of the world??) Anyway, it is the area that is basically 'level with' the location of the stifle-and actually consists mostly of MUSCLE. I don't consider any horse, big OR small, to have a 'strong hip' unless it has good muscular developement--plenty of it-not 'bunchy', but both plentiful AND long, tying well 'down' into the joints/bone structure to which it attaches. When viewed directly from the rear, the 'width' of a horse at the points of the hips and at the level of the stifle(the aforementioned 'britchen' area) should be at least the same-the 'britchen' area should NOT be 'narrower' --nor should you see a noticable 'sinking inward' in the line of the horse's rear('thigh' area')downward from the point of the hip toward the hock. It's really NOT about a 'fat A**--as what you need is MUSCLE, not FAT!! (I have an ample behind,too, but unfortunately, too much of it IS fat...!)

This is really about leverage, and how a LONGER lever(from better underlying skeletal structure) moves over a greater distance with less effort. A good level of muscular development is importatn because it is the MUSCLES that provide the power to move the 'levers'!

In my definition of a "strong hip", I have to say that the overall smoothness and strength of the 'coupling' area(loin) would also be a part--a horse may have a 'big motor', but it will not be as effective if the area of 'connection' of that motor to the forward part of the body is weak, as I have also seen apparent in this thread.

Finally--the analogy of 'dividing' the body into 'thirds' is an accurate one. A big part of OVERALL 'proper' conformation is about BALANCE, i.e., many serious horsemen will recognize that it is better for a horse to be in balance--of pretty'even' quality in all parts-than to have, for example, an OUTSTANDING length and refinement of head and neck, but a short, weak rear end(an oversimplification, to be sure--but I hope you see my point!)

(I really need a scanner; I would love to be able to put up a good illustration of a (light horse)skeletal structure, for illustration and discussion!)

Margo

 

[Miniequine]

Sandy,I love Summer!

Parmela Bonney

Pam,

) thanks

Summer is 10 years old (9 in the picture)

She is at driving camp and doing fantastic!

I am SO excited for her. She seems to love having a 'job' and

will be participating in CDE soon!!!

~Sandy

 

[jleonard]

Here are my two, the first I've been told has a weak hip due to a gooserump/ low tailset. The second I was told has a nice hip and certainly walks like a little powerhouse. Neither are very well muscled in these pics.

Bad Hip

Good Hip

Sorry they are not the best pics for evaluation, but you can get an idea

 

[nightflight]

These are from the article link I posted the other day. It is from another place with pictures from other breeds and the terms to go with them, but a horse is a horse. Right click and "save picture as" and you can open them in paint and draw in your own lines and comments. Some of them already have comments attached, but it's not in the requested miniature horse world speak. Mistakes do happen, if you see one here or I've gotten pictures flubbed up again please correct it - and thank you for doing so.

Skeletal/Muscle View

From this discussion, page 1

The croup is from the lumbosacral joint to the tail. The "hip" refers to the line running from the ishium of the pelvis (point of the hip) to the point of the buttock.

Picture showing why we look at slope. Here you can see four different "slopes". All other lengths and angles are constant. Can you see how the slope of the hip helps determine leg position? Which horse would you want for a halter horse? For a driving horse? Which horses would assume would be sound, and which would you want to have a soundness check done on? Can you how the position of the hip changes even where the hoof ends up when the horse is standing square? Can you see how some positions allow for heavy or light muscle attachment? Can you see that some angles are going to cause that the legs to do strange things in order to support the horse?

Three examples trying to show the difference between slope and depth:

Athletic "Strong"

Ok length, ok slope, see the point under the arrow where she is peaked and weaker than horse 1?

Weak. Lacking length - someone else mentioned the 30% rule of thumb? Lacking slope, will lack good stride. To use the miniature term, also "butt high"

Usually horses with "strong" hips and have straight legs. If you still don't see it try looking at the muscle on the upper legs of pictures people have posted. Some are nice to look at. Some may strike you as a little different. Compare the hips on those two horses. What in the hip is causing the upper legs to look different? Do you see it now?

Also, there are weak hips, and weak hips! According to the stock horse halter world the hips seen on some of the eventing ponies would be weak just because the halter world tends to looks at bulky muscles as strength, when others would consider a bulky hip a weakness that could hinder a full range of motion - think body builder vs. long distance runner. Two different types of "strength". You are going to like whichever you like best and call the other one "weak". Having a breed type hip (arabian, quarter horse, whatever) isn't a fault. I think if you were to ask the halter/stock folks to pick the best hip on this thread, and then the driving folks to pick the hip they would want to harness - it might be fun to compare the two. I bet they wouldn't be the same.

That's my last post on this topic. Whew! In fact, I think I'm taking a few weeks off after that one!

 

[Watcheye]

Things have been so busy I have not had a chance to check this one but I did want to take a moment to THANK everyone who responded. I really appreciate it!

 

[ClickMini]

Here is a casual shot of Alladdin, and I think it shows a good hip. He has excellent angulation, and if you were to drop a plumb line down the back of his body the back of his cannon would go right on that line. Alladdin has exceptional coupling. He is slightly cow-hocked, I consider that to be his weakness. Alladdin has outstanding movement and balance.

 

[whitney]

I have a hard time judging good or bad "PARTS". I like a nice moving horse and the hip and shoulder is primarily what gets this done.

I first look for "OVERALL BALANCE" front to back.

You can have the GREATEST hip but if its not balanced with a good shoulder it just does not look nor function that GREAT.