Talked to a Nutrena Rep

[minimule]

The Nutrena rep was at the feedstore yesterday when I stopped buy. I intended to buy Oats for my QH. That's all he gets with his Alfalfa (all he will eat!)

Anyway.......the Rep said you should NOT feed oats in addition to a complete food, like thier Safe Choice, Sr, Youth, XTN etc...(or even the Purina completes). He said it throws off the balance and doesn't accomplish what the food was designed to do. He said the oats are all starch and sugars.

I only feed the oats to the QH and my donkey. The QH can't handle all the minerals and vitamins in the complete feed and it has too much protein for the donk.

I have seen several folks on here that add the oats as a filler. Just thought I'd pass this info on and let them make their own decisions.

 

[Becky]

That's absolutely correct! Anytime you add oats or anything else to your commercially prepared feed, you are changing not only the protein, fiber, fat, etc but also the critical vitamin/mineral balance.

I really don't understand why so many people add oats to a formulated feed. Maybe someone can enlighten me!

 

[Relic]

l learned that years ago only our mares get the oats plus hay stallions never do they get a bagged feed and hay but never oats added in. Even with B/P it's temping to throw in oats in winter but don't.

 

[Marty]

Yup that's right.

A lot of people like to cut their pre-mixed sweet feed with oats.

I can't understand that. I don't know why people think they are going to accomplish anything wonderful by doing that. It's upsetting the already balanced feed. If you want to feed oats then feed oats.

But don't mess with the forumla.

 

[Robin_C]

Absolutely! I have never understood the concept of adding oats to an already balanced, commercially prepared feed. After all, you're paying for all the R&D that went into the product to MAKE it balanced. Throw in enough oats and you've just UNBALANCED the technology you paid for.

If you like to feed oats, and there's nothing wrong with that, opt for a ration balancer (some people call them protein pellets because most of them run about 30% protein or so) which are designed to be fed WITH oats. Oats are a great source of fiber (for good gut health) and carbohydrates (for energy). Oats are also a great addition to beet pulp and when fed 50:50 (by dry weight) they balance each other fairly well in terms of calcium and phosphorus and many of the major nutrients. If you do plan on adding oats to a commercially prepared feed, add in an equal amount of beet pulp and you're pretty much back to square one: a balanced diet.

Robin C

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Presumably they want more volume or chew-time for the horse and think of oats as just a filler. I certainly did until I read this! I mean, it's just grain, right? Oatmeal? Glop? Stuff I eat just to fill my belly but really don't expect to get any nutrition out of? I eat that stuff for fiber, not for food! LOL.

So that may have been the train of thought. Feeding the horses larger amounts of the complete food feels intuitively to me like adding TOO MANY vitamins and minerals, etc. I just want more fiber or more fat, not more supplements, so I add a different, non-balanced food. I'm not thinking about balance when I do that. I'm sure I should, but it wouldn't have occurred to me.

Not saying that's accurate in fact or form, just saying that's what I would have thought and might possibly be what others who do that were thinking.

Leia

 

[Robin_C]

Presumably they want more volume or chew-time for the horse and think of oats as just a filler.

I suspect you're on the right track here. Oats, however, are definitely NOT filler. They contain about 9-11% protein, a good dose of phosphorus, other micronutrients, calories and a hefty dose of starch/carbohydrates.

Many people think of beet pulp as a "filler" too. Another myth. Nutritionally speaking, beet pulp is almost the equivalent of oats, but its carbohydrates are in a different form (slow-release pectins). On a glycemic scale (a measure that roughly tells us how the horse's system responds to carbohydrate-turned-sugar), on a scale of 1-100, beet pulp is less than 10 while oats score at 100.

If you'd like to add more bulk to the diet, beet pulp is a good choice because it contains very "safe" calories (rather than upping the grain portion). Additionally, you could feed chopped hay (my horse's personal favorite next to beet pulp), hay pellets, etc. Gives them more chew time, more digestible fiber (yeah!) and helps provide more bulk to a mere handful or so of grain (a BIG plus in your horse's eye!)

Robin C

 

[Kathy2m]

O.K. ROBIN HELP as long as we are on the oat thing.. that was all I used to feed with T/A hay, IMO closer to nature is what they should eat. When I was at school we fed whole oats and whole corn and T/A hay 4 times a day. I continued that. My horses looked good, not too fat or skinny. Later I stopped feeding corn because they were getting too fat with only pleasure riding.(pre minis) I was flamed by several people not here that was I crazy feeding only oats especially to my minis was I trying to make them crazy? My vet suggested mixing my oats with omolene 100. Thats what he fed his polo horses. Now if you can't trust you vet whats a person to do? HELP!!!

 

[Becky]

Interestingly enough, most vets are not real well versed on proper equine nutrition. They do go over it some in vet school, but most vets are sadly lacking knowledge in that area. Personally, I would not put my trust in my vet as to what to feed my horse.

Corn is one of the worst things you can feed a horse due to where it's digested in the gut. You're asking for trouble if you feed corn (corn oil is ok).

As Robin C said, oats are great if you balance them with a protein/vitamin/mineral supplement as well as the right kind of hay.

 

[Kathy2m]

Interestingly enough, most vets are not real well versed on proper equine nutrition.  They do go over it some in vet school, but most vets are sadly lacking knowledge in that area.  Personally, I would not put my trust in my vet as to what to feed my horse. 
Corn is one of the worst things you can feed a horse due to where it's digested in the gut.  You're asking for trouble if you feed corn (corn oil is ok).

As Robin C said, oats are great if you balance them with a protein/vitamin/mineral supplement as well as the right kind of hay.

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O.K I do have the purina loose minerals free choice, so Ill drop the omolene stay with the oats & T/A. next question.. my mare is due in Mar. he wants me to switch her to Equine Jr. 2 weeks before she is due, and feed that to both. Opinions PLEASE. Feeding a horse sure was less complicated 30 years ago, that or I was a kid and did what my trainer told me to!

 

[Black Magic]

I'm not good at using options around here, but the post started off with...

"I have seen several folks on here that add the oats as a filler. Just thought I'd pass this info on and let them make their own decisions."

I add oats.... but that's because when you use Buckeye, Grow N Win is a "ration balancer"... On the bag it suggests how much in oats one should use with the Grow N Win. And of course the Buckeye people suggest the Oats too. Maybe, is that where you've seen oats added as a filler?

Some people feed just Grow N Win... I did that!!! However, our mare (who was a little pudgy needed to loose weight) lost it too quickly. I added oats, and she's now at a healthy stable weight. I just have to be careful how much Ultimate Fnish I use with the oats and Grow N Win.

And meanwhile, our feed store guy, where I get the Nutrena Oats, suggested that I needed a "ration balancer" when for awhile I was just feeding oats and alfapha...

Yeppers... it's really difficult to figure out what's best these days. Lol... We HAD a trainer, and we followed her suggestions on what to feed our minis.... geez.. what that a HUGH mistake!

to Robin C.... I know I drove her crazy with feed questions in the past...

God Bless,

Lynn W

 

[Robin_C]

My vet suggested mixing my oats with omolene 100. Thats what he fed his polo horses.

I don't doubt that he WAS feeding a bunch of oats to his polo ponies. Oats supply quick burst energy and plenty of it....there's a reason they call them race horse oats!

AND I'd venture to say he has never fed a miniature horse, which is similar to feeding a big horse in principle, but different in that most minis have a different metabolism than full size horses.

Oats + T/A hay is a very simple and acceptable approach, especially when combined with a good vitamin/mineral supplement which fills in the gaps created by this diet. SOME minis, however, will not be able to tolerate any grain due to their metabolisms, and will just get too fat even on minimal amounts. You can't just stop feeding them, obviously, as minis can be very prone to hyperlipidemia when faced with highly restricted, starvation-type diets. For the typical air-fern mini, plenty of good hay (or pasture) at 1%-2% of body weight will suffice to keep them round and healthy -- but don't forget the vitamin/mineral supplement. AND don't rely on them getting these from a free choice situation. They must be provided each and every day in a top-dressing type of situation. Some types come in pelleted form so the horse actually thinks he is getting "feed" without getting any grain. Also there are some "feeds" which are grain-restricted or grainless that are basically just a vitamin/mineral/protein supplement. Ration balancers tend to be higher in protein (30-32%, but fed in very small amounts 4-12 oz) while others, like Triple Crown Lite or Seminoles Horse and Pony Pellets, or Triple Crown-12 are only 12-14% protein and are fed in slightly higher amounts (8-16 oz) to meet the guaranteed analysis.

he wants me to switch her to Equine Jr. 2 weeks before she is due, and feed that to both.

I definitely agree with switching your pregnant mare to a mare/foal food at LEAST 2 weeks before she is due, preferably 30 days. Most broodmare managers will also provide additional calcium to late stage broodmares as well in order to help prevent eclampsia, caused from calcium depletion. Remember that baby is growing by leaps and bounds in the last 60 days and using up a lot of mom's reserves. Mom gives to the baby first and keeps what nutrition is left over for herself. Changing her to a more nutrient-dense feed with higher protein levels (protein is needed for creation and maintenance of muscle and tissue) and more vitamins/minerals will help her keep up with her baby's demands. Once the baby is born and ready to start exploring his own food, the Equine Jr is designed to meet his needs as well.

Robin C

 

[Kathy2m]

Robin, What Vit- min. supplement do you use?

 

[Robin_C]

Because I use very nutrient dense feeds and feed to the manufacturer's recommendations, I can use a "low octane" vitamin/mineral supplement. Right now I am using just the standard Purina 12:12 which I top dress 1 tsp per day. I also put it out free choice, 1 cup, every Sunday. Some horses eat it all up within a day or two -- some still have some in their mineral feeders the following Sunday.

If I needed to choose a higher quality vitamin/mineral supplement though, say if I was feeding an all hay or pasture diet, or NOT feeding to manufacturer's recommendations, I think the best bang for your buck is Select I or II. Select I is balanced for a feed program based on alfalfa hay and Select II is balanced for a feed program based on grazing or grass hay. There are other good products, though, such as VitaKey, a new one by Hooflex, Accel, etc.

Robin C

 

[Kathy2m]

Thanks Robin, Kathy

 

[wildoak]

I really don't understand why so many people add oats to a formulated feed. Maybe someone can enlighten me!

It's cheaper. I've seen plenty of big horse trainers over the years use oats and I figured it was to cut costs.

Jan

 

[minimule]

The ones I was refering to were those feeding the Purina and Nutrena complete feeds. These feeds are designed so that it is all you need to feed + the hay of choice. If you're adding the oats on top, not only does it mess up the balance but just adds $$ out the window.

My QH was only getting oats and alfalfa. He does well on that. When I tried to switch him to a complete feed, it must have had too much of something for him because it made his feet go soft. I switched him back to his plain ol' oats and his feet started getting harder. Can't explain it.......Vet is stumped too.

The Rep did say that most vets will tell you to feed oats. He said the same thing...most vets don't know all that much about the nutrition aspect. They can tell you what to stay away from but not generally what is best to feed.

 

[kaykay]

horse feeding really isnt that hard.. its US that make it so hard LOL. some of the feeding plans i have seen on here are just shocking to me. they are so complicated with so many different feeds being fed that i find it hard to believe anyone can keep up with it.

i think alot of people dont understand that complete feed is EXACTLY what it says. complete nutrtion for that horse when fed according to guidlines on the bag.

we also feed equine jr to pregnant mares for the last 2 months. I do two months as most of my mares are due very early spring so they are going thru the harsh winter.

 

[Robin_C]

I agree, Kaykay, that it does not have to be difficult to feed our horses and sometimes many people do overthink the whole process. However, before we get TOO simplistic, thinking there is a one-feed-for-all type product out there, I would advise everyone to consider their horses as the individuals they are -- each with special needs. We might be able to feed most broodmares alike, or young/growing horses alike or maintenance/pasture pets alike, but we should NOT be feeding our nursing broodmares and our pasture pets alike. In addition, there will be those individuals within a similar class (say, broodmares for example) which will have special needs.

Currently I am one of those guilty of keeping 4 different feeds on hand:

Ration balancer: show (halter) horses, and to supplement young growing horses past weaning age

race horse oats: to go with the ration balancer for weight (the least used of all my feeds)

Triple Crown Lite: Basically a vitamin/mineral supplement, similar to a ration balancer but with less protein (14%) for my pasture pets and driving horses

Triple Crown Growth: Broodmares, all foals until at least 12 months (sometimes mixed with the ration balancer, too)

It's not complicated and takes me less than 5 minutes to dish out feed for 23 horses.

I like to think of it this way. If I had an extended family living in my household, let's say an aging parent, my young but adult children and their toddler and infant (i.e. my grandchildren), I could not prepare one meal for everyone and have it suit all. Grandpa would likely need some special care -- maybe softer foods or more digestible foods - not corned beef and cabbage! My lazy adult/kids would do better without being overloaded with potatoes and dessert -- they get more cabbage. And the toddlers/infants won't even EAT corned beef and cabbage. They get special toddler or baby food appropriate for their age and development. Me -- I get carrot and celery sticks because no matter how hard I work at it I still can't lose weight! It's not difficult -- it's all in the planning!

Robin C

 

[kaykay]

robin i so agree but i have to say i dont feed 4 diff feeds

but one feed is not right for every single horse. when i went to amha world show i was really interested to read stall signs as most people had on each stall what each horse was fed. And even farm to farm it was all pretty much the same and not at all that complicated and these horses all looked outstanding

a well fed horse shows in its coat, eyes, attitude etc. one good look can usually tell you that a horse is well fed or lacking.