Teaching a minimal dwarf to drive

[StarRidgeAcres]

...and I can't put my finger on it.

Brief background: I sold a filly last year that I openly stated was pet quality, non-breeding home, etc. When the folks showed up to see her in person I informed them that in my opinion, she displayed minimal dwarf characteristics. Minimal - very, but still I could see it. I explained my reasoning, compared her to other horses on the property for contrast, etc. Health-wise, she's just fine. No roachback, straight legs, good bite, free-moving, etc. So, some may ask why I say she is a minimal dwarf, just trust me, she is. Believe me, when I bought her I didn't see it. But as she matured, I could see it. Well, they fell in love with her - she has that typical dwarf personality of being very people oriented - totally prefers people over other horses. So after checking their references and visiting their farm I agreed to sell her with a buy-back clause.

So, I check up on my horses once in a while and I called them today (they have her plus we co-own another one together but she lives with them) and the husband tells me he's got the minimal dwarf ground driving. He's an experienced horseman, has TWHs and both rides and has driving experience. He's talking about how level headed she is, how easily she's taken to the bit, etc. He was even excited because he and his brother have drawn up plans for a cart they've designed for her.

This horse would never be called a dwarf by 99% of people that you asked on the street, but I believe many folks on here would agree with me in an instant, so I really do believe I'm right about her. She can't be over 29.5" tall, but she is thick like a rhino!lol But I'm just not sure she should be pulling a cart. And I can't really put my finger on why I feel this way. There are tons of horses her height/size that are pulling carts all over the place. I know she's getting good farrier work and necessary vet care and I know they would never intentionally do anything harmful to any of their fur babies. And the couple are average (him) and small (her) sized. I just know I was shocked and initially could only say how proud I was of her for being so patient and smart.

Am I over-reacting? Is there any reason why she can't be used like this? Would love some perspective from others not emotionally attached like I am.

Thanks!

 

[Mona]

It sounds like to me, if she is so minimally expressed, then there should be not reason she cannot safely be doing this. MANY, MANY minis exhibit a dwarf characteristic or two, even some show horses, so I really don;t see a problem with it. Afterall, it's not like they are training a full blown dwarf (with twisted limbs, undershot jaw, roached back, short neck, breathing problems etc.) to drive. So yes, I do thing you are worrying for nothing.

 

[Carolyn R]

Parmela, it is really evident that you do right by your horses, I have always respected you for that, especially your call on Corona.

If you felt deep down in your heart that you placed her in a great home, don't second guess yourself. It is just my opinion, but if she has a job, such as doing some light driving, given that everything else health wise is okay, I don't think it will have an ill effect on her. I wouldn't suggest that she compete in CDE or ten mile drives, but if they love her, keep her best interest in mind, make sure she is mentally and physically capable of what they ask of her (including being realistic about total weight limitations on the cart and person), I don't think I would have an enormous issue with it.

There is also nothing wrong with discussing driving and just interjecting that many of the minis used to drive today are on the bigger size (ex. looks more balanced in the cart, is capable of pulling bigger work loads, looks more attractive when pulling a tall driver, longer, more elegant strides,...)

 

[MindyLee]

I agree with thee above folks. PLUS if the little mare really likes and takes to it and enjoys herself. Maybe it was ment to be for her. I have a fat tiny drafty style stud that is 30.5" tall and LOVES pulling a cart. That boy hates everything and could never be shown in a showring but oh boy dose he love to pull a cart and took right to it the first time hooked. I think she'll be just fine and sounds like shes in a great home.

 

[mizbeth]

I agree with the others. It sounds like she has a wonderful home. If she is the stocky type she should do just fine driving. I had a driving team of horses, that drove single/double that were 29 and 29.5". They were famous horses and had many A National titles. They were the older style horses as well and I would suppose you might consider them dwarfy, but were certainly not dwarves in that time.(If they were still alive would be 25 years old now - so older breeding style) Everybody loved these horses, they were dead broke to drive to handle, and fun to be around.

B

 

[HGFarm]

I also agree with the above and sounds like she is with a loving and knowledgable home. I dont think they would do anything to hurt her and sounds to me like she is pretty healthy and all.

 

[LAminiatures]

I have a minimal dwarf and he started ground driving last summer. I can't wait to hook him and take him on short drives around my farm. Funny thing is he took to it like nobody's business and he loves it. He goes to schools and nursing homes but really loves having that part time job at home. I would say if she is healthy enough don't worry she probably likes having a little job.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Wow. I feel SO much better this morning waking up to read these responses! I'm still not sure what exactly about it was bothering me, but I sure feel better now.

The only thing I asked was they never breed her and give her back to me if they couldn't keep her for some reason. I never said don't teach her to drive. You all are right and knowing her she's probably loving the extra attention it's getting her.

Thanks! I do feel better about it now

 

[Bess Kelly]

Your "unknown" concern is probably due to the general association we all have with driving on a very public basis -- shows, CDE events, etc. -- where there is considerable effort, strength, stamina, etc. required. It's the gut instinct to protect that you feel, IMO.

She's probably never going to be overtaxed in any way. These appear to be people of compassion and knowledge relative to animals. The filly is not suffering from many of the conformation issues that most see on dwarfs, so light use would be really good for her.

I have two tiny minis that have been trained to drive and LOVE IT -- although I rarely do this anymore. Both are a mere 27"....father & daughter. He was a super driver and loved it....really enjoyed the job. She was trained for obstacle (& was Res Champ at AMHA regionals one yr, obstacle in hand), then to drive for fun. Small carts, specially made harness, etc. Never more than light work on solid, level ground, at home. No showing, etc. Consideration being given to weight & job conditions, these guys are fine. In fact it can be very good exercise for them.

Go visit her when she's driving. Bet you'll find pride and comfort with that.

 

[RhineStone]

He was even excited because he and his brother have drawn up plans for a cart they've designed for her.

This statement bothers me more than driving the dwarf. There is A LOT to understanding the engineering of a cart, and I have known of people that have built their own with disasterous outcomes. You can read about one example on my website on the Driving Safety page: http://rhinestone-ridge.wikispaces.com/Driving+Safety

Myrna (who builds carriages with her husband...ok, he builds the carriages and I help.

)

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

This statement bothers me more than driving the dwarf. There is A LOT to understanding the engineering of a cart, and I have known of people that have built their own with disasterous outcomes. You can read about one example on my website on the Driving Safety page: http://rhinestone-ri.../Driving+Safety

Myrna (who builds carriages with her husband...ok, he builds the carriages and I help.

)

Thank you very much for the link!

 

[Elizabeth Pannill]

My trainer has a mini in for driving training that has a head that to me appears a little like a dwarf -she is about 30 " . A Frontier Easy Entry cart was to big for her so they ordered the small cart made by GS Carts . I have seen it and was very impressed. Very light weight and designed for minis under 32 ".

Her training is going well and she does well with the GS cart.

 

[ClickMini]

When I first started doing CDEs around here, there was a little fella very similar to what you describe competing. His name is Macho. Macho KICKED BUTT!!! He was 29" tall or thereabouts. He was a tough and fun little guy and had the competitive heart. He was very quick and routinely beat the bigger minis. I think Dorothy Whiteman had him originally, then he was owned by a family that competed together. So hey, you might be surprised by just how much she CAN do, and will want to do!

 

[R Whiteman]

I read all the comments on this strand with interest and would concur with everything said. Amy mentioned Macho. He was one of four dwarves that I have had the joy of owning or working. Owning minis is a lifelong education and back in the days of first minis for us, we unknowingly bought a couple of minis who turned out to be minimal dwarf. All were registered and we showed them successfully. Macho even was a reserve Western Champion in obstacle driving. It was when we bred them (not to each other) that we found out what we had. They were immediately taken out of the breeding program. Since they were broke to drive and rather successful at it, we were able to find new families for them where they would have a purpose. Macho went on to do CDE, teaching a family of seven children the basics of the sport. As a youth horse, he had to carry an adult with the child through all three phases of the event. He is nearing 20 years old and continues to drive, now in another family. Yes, he now suffers a little arthritis, but good care has kept him comfortable and happy. I DO NOT advocate the driving of anything showing severe signs of dwarfism; I don't think you could ever get them to that point, happy and healthy. But there are many, many little horses out there who may have one or more slight signs of dwarfism who have been driving happily for all of their long lives.

Dorothy

 

[ohmt]

Technically there is no such thing as a minimal dwarf. A horse is either a dwarf or not-there is no in between. I think we forget that sometimes. There are many horses that may exhibit conformational flaws that resemble those of a dwarf, but that doesn't mean that they are one or even carry the gene for it. I have a mare that IF there was such a thing as a minimal dwarf, would be one (achondroplasia). She's beautiful and has perfect hooves, bite, head, long neck-just those short little legs and the teeniest ears...but driving would probably kill her. I would never approve of anyone driving an actual dwarf, but a horse with conformational flaws is a whole different story. I would say if the mare in question has good legs and has no trouble breathing and seems to enjoy driving, then there is nothing wrong with it.

Here is my 'minimal' dwarf-achondroplasia that would not be suitable for driving. She IS a dwarf with 2 genes.

Here is a gelding that people on here would consider has dwarf characteristics. He is NOT a dwarf and actually cleans up very nicely. He's a bit chunky and out of shape here, but you can see he is a little stocky, has a short neck, and even though I love his dishy face with great big eyes, it may be on the verge of being considered 'dwarfy' as well. He is just a tish under 30" and will be trained to drive by the amish this coming spring. He has the most willing and loving personality and is always trotting around trying to show off, so I think he'll be perfect for it, despite his conformational drawbacks.

(Excuse the halter and lead rope. My little sister took him for a walk and took this picture and she does know better than to leave him without taking the halter and lead off first)

 

[Carriage]

"There is A LOT to understanding the engineering of a cart, and I have known of people that have built their own with disastrous outcomes."

No evidence exists and no witness' will ever speak of our first attempt, and I will deny that any such rig was ever built....

Miss Myrna speaks truth. When we started it was VERY difficult to find folk who could explain the reasoning behind design aspects of carts and carriages. Normally they would revert to "This is the way its been done for a hundred years". While true it wasn't helpful to ones understanding of "Why?". The "old-timers" knew what they were doing, its just that the reasons had been lost along the way to the average driver.

Dealing with the little ones this understanding, which includes ergonomics, needs to be very well thought out as there is significantly less room for error. And the price paid could well be the destruction of the little one.

When we joined the party many years ago we decided that the unaddressed niche was the miniature horse and we have specialized in this segment of driving exclusively. Miniaturizing larger animal rigs is and has been the trend for the most part. We decided to start at the animal and build exclusively for that size animal and from the animal back. I'm told that the results of this approach are half way decent.

Bb

 

[R Whiteman]

Technically there is no such thing as a minimal dwarf. A horse is either a dwarf or not-there is no in between. I think we forget that sometimes.

Too true...but I think when most of us talk about minimal dwarf we are in truth talking about a horse who is a dwarf, but showing minimal symptoms. The four horses of which I spoke are such. They showed only one or two symptoms of their dwarfism and were perfectly suitable to drive. And before you say they were not dwarves and probably just showed poor conformation in certain areas, let me say that in the case of Macho, he was a stallion and known to be a "size reducer". That should have been our first clue, but we were "young" in minis and knew nothing of dwarfism. When the foal was born with legs shorter than the length of his head, bad bite, bulbous head, we were forced to learn a lot....fast!! The mare had produced 7 foals by 7 sires and this was the only dwarf. We had to assume it was Macho and gelded him. He was already broke to drive and had been very successful as a driving horse.

Our first mare, who had won open (not mini) halter classes, was very straight legged, had a dishy head which could be called a bit dwarfy in hindsight and only a slightly short neck. She produced a dwarf foal with serious defects that led to its early stillbirth. She too was already broke to drive and had won a couple of driving classes. She also was culled from the breeding herd and taught a couple of little girls to drive. She is happy, healthy and not able to reproduce herself any more. So, I guess my advice would be to assess your dwarves carefully and don't give up your plans to drive them if they are able to do the job without pain or stress. Some will be able to; some won't. It is our job as owners and trainers to know the difference and make the appropriate decisions.

Dorothy

 

[ohmt]

Too true...but I think when most of us talk about minimal dwarf we are in truth talking about a horse who is a dwarf, but showing minimal symptoms. The four horses of which I spoke are such. They showed only one or two symptoms of their dwarfism and were perfectly suitable to drive. And before you say they were not dwarves and probably just showed poor conformation in certain areas, let me say that in the case of Macho, he was a stallion and known to be a "size reducer". That should have been our first clue, but we were "young" in minis and knew nothing of dwarfism. When the foal was born with legs shorter than the length of his head, bad bite, bulbous head, we were forced to learn a lot....fast!! The mare had produced 7 foals by 7 sires and this was the only dwarf. We had to assume it was Macho and gelded him. He was already broke to drive and had been very successful as a driving horse

There are 3 dwarf types characterized in minis (actually 4, but the 4th kind does not carry to term), and none of them would be suitable to drive due to their bad legs. After reading as much as I could about John Eberth's research and other's research, some horses that are carriers for the type 1 may express a few of the characteristics even though the gene is recessive. That being said, John has also said that some horses who may exhibit some characteristics may not be carriers at all. I bet your stallion, Macho, was one of the carriers who was expressing a few characteristics. The picture I posted of my mare in an earlier post is the most 'tame' type of dwarfism in minis and you can see how bad her back legs are. Plus, she is just 26.5" and the tallest dwarf I've seen yet.

A horse must have two genes to be a dwarf which means that your dwarf foal would have to have received a gene for it from both Macho AND his dam.

Kudos to you for gelding Macho after he sired a dwarf by the way!