Teaching to stand

[Maverick]

this is my first time posting...i have a 36" gelding who drives like the wind but he has a hard time to "stand" while i get in the wagon...he just wants to go as soon as i let go of his bridle. I cant hitch him myself for this reason and i dont always have help. I tied him to a tree a few times as i hitched him, but when i untied him, he started to go before i got in the cart and put us into the tree he was tied to....he is a great horse, and as i said he drives like the wind...he just needs to relax until i get in the wagon. Any hints would be appreciated.

 

[horsenarounnd]

You have found the classic problem with training a horse to drive, and one that is too often not taken seriously enough. In order to be a god driving horse, it first must be a good standing horse.

We begin our training with training the horse to stand quietly while tied, whether in the cart or not, and always do the same thing when we put to, so that standing becomes an accepted part or the horses life. We often have to put to with only one person, so it is imperative that the horse stand quietly until we are in the seat. We always tie the horse while putting to, and it is important to tie to a gate, wall or hitching rail, something that is wide enough that the horse won't try to go around it when it is untied. (As you found out, a tree doesn't work) to start with, harness the horse and tie him and then just let him stand there for a while. Let him get used to the idea that having the harness on doesn't necessarily mean that he's going somewhere right away. Then when you do put the cart on, let him stand for a while again. Obviously you stay near by in case of problems (and there may well be some, at least at first) but let him get used to the idea. When you eventually feel he's settled enough for you to get into the cart, you can untie him, but have the lines in your hands so you have some control. If he's gotten used to the idea that he can't go ahead, he should just stand as quietly as if he is still tied. You can then get in the cart, gather your lines so you have control, but still have him stand. When you feel you, and he, are ready to drive, ask him to back a few steps so you can turn him and drive forward away from the gate or rail. The backing and turning before going forward are a key part of the technique, so the horse learns that he will not simply go straight ahead when he starts out, but will back, turn, and then go forward.

This won't be an easy thing to teach, because he has already got the bad habit of going forward as soon as he is in the cart, and you will need to go very slowly and repeat many times for him to learn the new way of doing things. Horses learn by repetition and eventually he'll get the idea .We always put to with our horses this way, and it does work. It will probably take a while to get him used to the new way of doing things, and you should have an assistant helping until he's good with it, but in time it will come to be second nature for him.

You didn't say how he does in harness, if he will stop and stand when you're on the seat and you just want to stop and rest or in the line-up at a show. You'll need dto stop him in the ring and let him just stand for a while. Pick a place with a nice view, and take a lunch or a six-pack with you as you might be sitting for a while. This again, will just take a lot of repetition. but eventually it will all come together and you both.will have a safe and much more enjoyable driving experience. GOOD LUCK!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Hi Maverick!

I'm not a big fan of leaving a fractious horse tied with the cart attached, nor of having any driving horse back up when their brain isn't completely engaged as they often turn it into an evasion and start back-pedaling as fast as they used to go forward. Both are major safety risks. If trained that way from the start it's fine, but not a good idea for a horse who is misbehaving.

As Horsenarounnd said, the big problem is that your horse has not been taught the driving horse's most important gait- "Whoa." He's been allowed to get away with this naughty behavior and thinks he gets to dictate when you go and how fast, and that's simply not something a driving horse gets to decide. That's the driver's perogative! Does he ground-tie or stand indefinitely without the harness on? If not, that's your first step. When you tell him to "Whoa, Stand" that means he is to plant all four feet and is not allowed to move them again until he's told to. Every time he tries to take a step forward, you back him up into his original position and make him stay there. Keep these sessions brief at first as like any little kid his attention span will be short and you want to set him up to succeed.

When he's capable of staying put until told otherwise, practice until you can walk 360 degrees around him at the end of a leadline and he won't move. Then put on his harness and work through the same steps. He will likely have a little trouble at first when you disappear behind the blinkers, but simply reset him every time he moves and praise lavishly when he finally stands while you're out of sight. Then practice this ground-driving, and then hitching. He should get to a point where standing is a mental "safety zone" for him and he becomes happy to settle in and wait patiently. I don't even tie to hitch anymore because they do have a tendency to get restive when they feel that leadline drop away and it's easier to simply train them to stand on their own. The more hyper your horse is, the more important it is to get in the cart and simply sit there. Yup- with a book and a lemonade if necessary! Just chill out. He doesn't get to go until he's given up all hope of going and finally settled down. He needs to learn that the sooner he is calm and well-mannered, the sooner he gets what he wants and is allowed to move.

I know you'll probably drive him again before you've gotten him completely retrained for ground-tying so you'll need some new standards there as well. Going forward must ALWAYS be your idea, not his, so don't let him move off until he's stood still. At first you may only get a moment of stillness so be prepared to give him the command to move right before he would have broken and done it himself. As he gets the idea that the fastest way to go forward is to stand still, you can ask for a moment longer each time and start stretching how long he will give you. If he threatens to rear or gets out of control, let him go forward so he doesn't flip (safety is always the first priority!) but work the tar out of him immediately and don't let him stop trotting/circling/bending/doing serpentines until he's tired enough to want to stand. He needs to understand that his options are "Stand quietly" or "work so hard you'll WISH you'd stood quietly." Between these two approaches it shouldn't take long for him to start getting the idea!

Leia

 

[Maverick]

thanks for the input....i will clarify a bit more if that"s ok. He stands tied(harnessed or not) like a statue...no problem at all. When i ground drive him, at first when i call for a whoa, he will stop...after 10-20 seconds he will rear straigh up and paw the air to move on...he is not being dirty, he means no harm and i am in no ways threatened by this, he just wants to go...when we drive, he will whoa and stand like a pro...and as i said before he goes like the wind, is a pleasure to drive and i am in total control...its just the 5-10 seconds from the time i unhook the lead rope till i get in the wagon seat that is a bit hairy...i"ve actually had to jump on as the wagon goes by... I use him to skid small wood from my bush and he digs in and pulls with all his heart...he is a grand horse...just has that 1 bad habit! oh and I do not show him...never will. Thanks again for the replies.

 

[shalakominiatureshowhorses]

Bentley does that. Except, he does it when he is asked to stop. I show him, and in showing there is a header in the show ring to stand in front of him to keep him still if he were to act up. Without a header, he is very uncomfortable for a couple of seconds. He lunges forward, then he feels pressure on the bit, so he leans back, then no pressure, lunges forward. He has always done this. I tell him to back and he is fine, but when I don't give a command he is very uncomfortable. After like 30 seconds he is fine and realizes its no use fighting with himself.

I don't have any tips as I'm not a pro. Hope you get him out of this habit soon!

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Maverick, considering the information you shared in your last post I think I would spend lots of time ground driving him and getting him to stand quietly for longer periods of time. If he rears up and then is allowed to go forward he learns that he decides when to go and not you. I would just keep insisting he wait quietly, if he is antsy, just whoa again and never walk off until he is relaxed even if for only a moment (like Leia described above). Sometimes it helps to start with a header and then gradually move the header farther away until the horse will stand on their own. This kind of thing often takes some real time and patience at first but one day it will just click and he will relax when he stops. Once he will stand while ground driving then practice standing while hitched. If he rushes off when you start, whoa and stand. Never drive off as soon as you mount the cart, always wait for him to settle and relax first. Again it will take some time and patience at first and a second person may help things along. Even tho you say he is a stellar driving horse and you enjoy him this habit is very dangerous (as I think you know) to you and to him (what happens if you stumble and don't manage to get in the cart one day- he will be loose with the cart attached...) so I would sure take the time to help him get past it so he is not only a willing driving horse but a safe one as well.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

My Dapper Dan used to do this. Once I was given the advice to make him whoa before heading out, and began to practice it, he got much better. He just didn't know any better. Now if I get into the cart and DD wants to take off, I make him whoa until I give the signal to walk up. Sometimes it's just a second or two, but I am the one deciding to go, not him. We are both learning.

Another idea to try: If he won't whoa for you as you get into the cart, drive him in a circle until he will stop for you. Don't let him take off in a straight line. If you do this a few times, I believe he will not be in such a big hurry to take off.

You are young and agile now, but the day may come where you cannot make a flying leap into the vehicle! Better start practicing for the day...

 

[rbrown]

What I've done with Kandy, who just HAD to move her feet as soon as I got in the cart, was put her to, ask her to stand for a few seconds- and then hop out and unhitch her. It seems to take away some of the anticipation for her. I've done that maybe half a dozen times. Otherwise, I do make sure to work on standing during every single drive with her. She still wants to move off right away, but she knows to stand while I get settled, until I tell her to move forward. I insist that whoa means whoa, and it's not negotiable. If she moves off without my cue, I move her back to her original position, so she's not "wiggling" her way forward. I've been building up her standing tolerance- I started by asking her to stand only as long as I thought she could handle (without pitching a huge fit, anyway!), which was only a second or two, and we've been building up to standing for a few minutes at the beginning of most drives. It's something I've been constantly working on with her... but I'm sure she'd be much better if I hadn't let her get away with not standing still for years before I knew better!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

When i ground drive him, at first when i call for a whoa, he will stop...after 10-20 seconds he will rear straigh up and paw the air to move on...he is not being dirty, he means no harm and i am in no ways threatened by this, he just wants to go...

He may mean no harm, but he could get you both into a lot of trouble someday. What if a car were coming and you were trying to stop in the only safe place off the road? What if a little kid were about to dash out into the path in front of you and he wouldn't stand? There are situations like that every day where the human's ability to anticipate what is coming needs to take precedence over the horse's immediate wants, just as sometimes a toddler needs to understand that Mom's word is law because she is older and wiser than himself. Would you let a 16h warmblood get away with that sort of "self expression" and think it was okay? Permissive parenting does not help the kid (horse or human) to learn boundaries and self-discipline and become a better person.

Since you posted asking how to change this behavior I know you understand it isn't acceptable, but I want you to understand WHY it's so important and why we as drivers must insist on obedience on certain cardinal issues regardless of how cute or innocent the reason for the behavior is. Believe me, I know how you feel! I let my first driving horse have a brief run at the start of every drive for years because he "needed to blow off steam before he could focus" and after all, he'd walk calmly until I gave him permission to run so surely it was okay? What changed my mind was when I got a second horse, a yearling, and suddenly was looking at putting them together as a pair in a few years and meanwhile ponying the colt from the cart. I got to thinking about what might happen if my supposedly experienced, trust-worthy older horse insisted on taking off at the start of every drive and my blood ran cold!

Plus around that time he got a back injury and absolutely HAD to walk for twenty minutes or so to loosen up before being allowed to pull weight, and I got very tired of the fact that after two or three minutes of walking he got impatient and started trying to bolt because, after all, I'd always let him run before. Why wouldn't I now? It brought home to me that what I'd always thought was just an acceptable quirk and cute thing we had an understanding about was actually a very bad habit which could get us into real trouble. I spent a good long time retraining him but it was worth it, and now he's much more mannerly without having lost any of his spark.

I insist that whoa means whoa, and it's not negotiable.

Honestly, that's what it boils down to. We can make it pleasant and fun for them and build their own sense of achievement and pride, but the bottom line is when I say "whoa" he'd better plant his feet and keep them there.

Leia

 

[Equine Events]

I would start this training while in the long lines and not hitched. Stand and when he acts up, keep contact, say whoa and bop him on his side with the driving whip. He may freak out a time or 2 but will learn quickly. I do this while standing for quite some time. 15-20 minutes regularly. My friends mini would rear if you didn't let him go and 1 session of 5 minutes of correcting him was all it took.

After you get it down on the ground do the same thing in the cart. The key is contact so they don't take off, voice command and them pop them. This also works well for one trying to eat grass but I say head up instead.