The New Horse

[Renolizzie]

So, the new horse, Nevada, is staying in his pen while I am working with him and going out when Hubby can work with him for the last several days.

I've been working on establishing some boundaries for the last couple of weeks. When I feed he has to step back from the feeder. I wait patiently until he does what I want and then I throw the feed. He has to back to get the "good stuff" in his food bowl in the afternoons and give me some happy ears [ears forward not laid back].. He has to get away from the gate for me to come in. There is no rushing the gate.

That is all going pretty good.

Nevada dragged me down the other day when we tried walking outside the pen so I do not want a repeat.

Should I consider getting a rope halter

or

Should I consider getting a stud chain

so that I have more control when I want to walk him outside the pen.

Will I have more control?

I obviously don't want to treat the horse cruelly but I cannot be dragged down like I was the other day. Any other thoughts. I'm no push over but this horse is too much for me to handle outside the pen at this point.

The horse does not bite, kick, buck or rear. He lowers his head to put the halter on. He picks up his feet although you do have persist. He allows himself to be brushed and combed. The horse has a sweet personality and seems to learn quickly.

I'm not in a rush since Hubby is willing to do the training for the time being but I want to hear your thoughts on a horse that has managed to drag me around like a rag doll. I don't want to be skidding across the sand, hanging onto the rope, on my belly hollering like Yosemite Sam saying, "I said Whoa horse!"

I would like to make sure that when I take Nevada on his next trip outside the pen is a success. Hubby and I might lead him together with two ropes in the future to see how that goes. That way I have Hubby backing me but the horse gets used to behaving when I have the rope. Will that work? If he learns to lead from Hubby, will that at least transfer fairly easily to others leading him?

Yeah, I got questions

I hope the photo of the new guy shows up when I post. He has the state of Nevada on his side which is shy we call him Nevada.

My long term goal is to get him driving.

 

[romewhip]

I would use a stud chain on him until he learns a little more respect. You don't have to hurt him, but you do need reinforcement since they are stronger. I see a lot of people putting the chain on incorrectly so that it does hurt them, this is how I do it: through the ring at the left cheek, over nose wrapping once around noseband, out through right cheek ring, then up to right cheek throat ring and snap. Sometimes I will run the chain from right cheek ring under the jaw to the left throat ring, if the horse needs a little more control or is a stud with some silly ideas. This keeps the halter from sliding around in hitting him in the eyes, and from getting too much slack in the chain.

At first when my pony was still a stallion he'd get some silly ideas and needed a chain. As he became trained he got much better, and I rarely ever need one anymore- only for things he really doesn't like such as clipping ears. Better to use one and not get hurt than risk being dragged into something.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I agree with romewhip, no reason to consider a properly adjusted stud chain as cruel. I would forgo the rope halter and use a stud chain for the moment, in future you may need neither one and he may behave with a regular flat halter. You definitely don't want a repeat of the previous experience, aside form you getting hurt or becoming afraid to handle this horse (or others) there is a real risk of this becoming an ingrained habit making the horse a problem child for years to come. Something I would recommend tho is that you work with him on halter in his pen at first, stud chain on, so he already understands its correction before you head out and he tries something that needs a firm correction from you. No sense in it being a great shock to him.

 

[Renolizzie]

Reinmaker -

That is my big concern, that he is pretty smart and learning all the time. If he learns he can get away with dragging me around, he isn't going to unlearn it easily. My next trip outside the pen with him, whenever that may be, has to be a success I don't have to lead him outside the pen today or tomorrow but one of these days, I will need to do just that and when I do, I need it to work in my favor.

I have been giving this situation some thought and I appreciate the comments.

 

[Renolizzie]

Romewhip - That is exactly how my friend up the street said she would set up the stud chain. I don't think the stud chain would be inherently cruel but I would prefer to have an effective tool and not a bad set up.

Thanks for your comment.

 

[studiowvw]

You can also use a rope halter, as long as it is a thinner, firm surface rope. The soft, plump ropes sometimes used in making these halters wouldn't be effective.

The effectiveness of the rope halter is that they don't like to lean against it (uncomfortable) and the halter pressure WILL RELEASE the instant they quit pulling against it. (That is if you are not yanking.)

The chain does not release as easily and people are often tempted to yank on it to teach the horse a lesson, which can break the nose. We were told by a horse dentist who had used cadaver heads in his training that most of them had broken noses.

My issue with your horse is that if his default action is to bolt, thereby getting away from you or pulling you off your feet, and this is his pattern - you may not find him ever safe in harness. Who wants a bolter hitched to a cart? I had one like this about 15 years ago, and he got a lot better in halter, but his default pattern was always to suddenly yank and run. I gave him a "Fail" in harness and went on in my search for the perfect harness mini. (Who I now have

)

 

[Renolizzie]

That is true, studio. Only time will tell if he will ever be safe to harness.

 

[Minimor]

For my part I wouldn't be concerned with him doing that in harness--if he were inclined to donut in harness you would find out while long lining, long before he was hitched. I had a Morgan showmanship gelding that would set his nose against the halter and LEAVE just because he knew he could. He'd cart me off anytime he chose unless I put a chain over his nose (under his chin would make him rear)--then he'd never even try to take off. We were unbeatable in showmanship (wouldn't have been the case without a chain!! LOL). We rode him a lot, always in a bosal, and he never tried to take off them either. It was just one particular learned behavior he had, and he did it just for fun.

 

[targetsmom]

I am afraid his behavior reminds me a bit of our gelding Cowboy. We knew Cowboy would be a challenge when we got him and he has been, but he can also be very good, He has been shown quite successfully and earned his Open Pinto Championship over several years of showing. BUT, he often would bolt AT a show and get away from someone, and still does it here or tries to. He ground drives quite well but is also claustrophobic and will never be hooked to a cart by me!!! Yes, his default action when scared is to bolt...The more experienced 4-Hers do use him but we have a strict rule that if he starts to bolt LET GO!! As long as we keep him in a fenced area he seems to be OK. We have had him for 9 years to give you some idea of the issues. Good luck!!

 

[Marsha Cassada]

I vote for the stud chain.

There is a lot of good information about bolting horses. It is my understanding that it is a flight response because the horse cannot cope with what is going on. Either because he does not understand or there is discomfort/pain and he "flees". A true bolt is always straight ahead. It could be a habit with him now, but you might be able to figure out what triggers it. Although, you don't really say he is bolting.

Do you read TTouch? Your picture shows his head turned away, so it isn't possible to tell much. It's interesting to look for personality traits in the head and body. Her book is a fun read; it might give you some pointers on what makes him tick. This time of year when they are so furry, it is rather hard to get a clean silouhette look at heads, though!

Even if he doesn't stay with you, you will learn alot from him! And he will be a better horse for the work you are doing with him.

 

[Renolizzie]

I'm not sure the horse is bolting. The first time I took him out of the pen he dragged me over to eat grass and get bites out of tree leaves. I worked with him for several days inside the pen and he did a lot better. I took Nevada outside the pen for three days going a little further, a little further and he was doing better although a handful.

The fourth day I wanted to make it all the way to the round pen since he really needs to burn off some energy. As we approached the round pen he whirled and took off, surprising me. So, did he bolt or did he just try to do what he wanted to do, not go in the round pen and hang out eating grass outside the round pen?

Some interesting stories, peeps

Thanks Marsha - I guess one way or another, this will be a learning experience.

Hubby took him out to the round pen again last night and Nevada charged round and round. Eventually, Hubby went to the center and had the horse go around and then got him to turn and go the other way. He whoad him several times. They did pretty good. Hubby stopped and started walking over to me outside the fence. Nevada followed him like a puppy so Hubby kept walking and Nevada kept following him. Nevada stopped so Hubby said "Come on" and Nevada went back to following him. Very cute.

 

[Minimor]

That isnt bolting. It sounds like this boy has learned that if he sets his nose and goes thattaway, he can drag his handler and get to where he wants to be (grass). He does it simply because he knows he canit is something that has been taught to him by an handler who couldnt control him. So yes, even if your husband works with him all the time and he learns that hubby is in charge, he will probably try the same thing with you, or with any other person who tries to lead him. He will try it to see if he can do itif the handler wins, then he will respect that. If he can drag away that handlerthen he wins! This should have no effect at all on training him to driveother than you know that he will take advantage if he can when you are leading him. So, when it comes to driving training, you might be prepared for him to try something similar when you start him in long lines. He may very well decide that he wants that grass over there, and hes going to try and go & get it, even though you are line driving him. You will need to pay attention and stop him before he heads his own direction. If a horse has the tendency to take advantage of his people it is best to not let him learn that he can do it.

 

[Renolizzie]

Thanks Minimor for your answer. We will bear that in mind when we get there. Obviously, we all need a few weeks to learn about one another and establish good habits before we even begin to consider trying to train him to drive.

I thought I would update. Hubby has been successfully getting the horse from his pen to the round pen. He has also lunged him and been successful. I am thrilled that Hubby has taken so much interest in this horse and learning about horses and how to train and work with horses. I'm also a bit surprised but in a good way

I have been spending time with the horse in his pen, leading him, asking him to back, asking him to be polite to get his food and enjoying his winning personality. He really is a fun, inquisitive horse. He is very outgoing and, IMHO, very smart.

I have a stud chain coming to the house in the mail and should get it any day. I'll be working on being well respected by Nevada inside the pen and outside as well..

Thanks for the input, peeps.

 

[BiologyBrain]

I'm late to this discussion, but I wanted to share an easy substitution for a stud chain. I had an extra choke-chain dog collar and a two ended snap laying around. Voila, any lead or lunge line converted to a stud chain. I personally think the choke collar releases better than most stud chains I've used. The links seem smoother and the whole thing is more flexible. One of the minis I've been working with had a tendency to bull through the lead and flat halter. I brought out the chain and wound it around the noseband a few times and fastened it to itself under his chin. A few bumps with the new halter-lead combo and he was singing a different tune! I personally use this same set-up for the Belgian too even when lunging him. It keeps him from leaning on the lunge line and wearing my already weak arms.