I had a black welsh morgan mare contract it was well before there was anything really known about it or vaccinations. She had ALL the classic symptoms and they came out of no where while I was riding her during a lesson. I think she was only 12 years old. We kept her around for another I think 5 years at a friends farm and then when she could not shed her coat any longer and she was starting to limp around then, so we had her put down.
Thought he was lame again
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I think I may have figured out what happened to max or at least a direction to go in. Between the vet (making a comment on saturday), myself and doing an emergency session with a communicator (yes I use the aid of animal communicators and has worked in the past for me) its all pointing towards a blood clot.
I have found an article that matches what happen to Max to a "T" and I will be showing this article to my vet tomorrow so we can head in that direction. I strongly believe this is what happened.
BLOODWORM ARTERY DAMAGE CAN CAUSE HIND LEG LAMENESS http://www.anvilmag.com/farrier/110f2.htm
I have found an article that matches what happen to Max to a "T" and I will be showing this article to my vet tomorrow so we can head in that direction. I strongly believe this is what happened.
BLOODWORM ARTERY DAMAGE CAN CAUSE HIND LEG LAMENESS http://www.anvilmag.com/farrier/110f2.htm
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Keep us posted on him. Still praying he can come through this for you.
UPDATE ON MAX:
Had the vet come out late yesterday afternoon, she pulled some blood to test and gave him a week worth of steroids. We already ruled out for HYPP and toxic plants. I am going to do a round of pancur to clean his system out to rule out worms.She also did a flex test of his head and neck and he passed with flying colors.
But then about 3 hours later the barn owner saw him on the ground, im not sure if he was just laying down or collapsed in having a black out again. We got him up in about 20 mins (vs the hour on saturday) and he walked over and started eating his hay like nothing happened but she did say it took him a while to find his back legs to get steady.
We called the vet but she said there was nothing more she could do and pretty much wasnt going to come out. I took it upon myself to start to feel over his whole body since only his lower legs have been looked at and his neck/spine. I found a "squishy" type lump on his right back rump on the side and I could press on it and move it around. He didnt seem to react to it but I compared it to the other side and there wasnt one there. I called the vet and she dismissed it as a hemotoma, but on the flip side he has never fallen on that bad side, only the other each time. Also I found a gold ball sized lump in his throat latch area which I am guessing is a swollen gland.
The barn owner checked him out this morning and he was standing and both the lumps have not gotten any bigger.
Im to the point that when I get the blood work results back I am going to get a different opinion from the vet I have always used on him. I didnt use her first because she does not to emergency calls.
I have not had good encounters with doctors myself, so I am always on the skeptical side. I still think it is his heart etc and I was going to start putting him on some asprin, just in case he may of had a blood clot of some sort that is causing all of this.
I am just so frustrated at this point
Had the vet come out late yesterday afternoon, she pulled some blood to test and gave him a week worth of steroids. We already ruled out for HYPP and toxic plants. I am going to do a round of pancur to clean his system out to rule out worms.She also did a flex test of his head and neck and he passed with flying colors.
But then about 3 hours later the barn owner saw him on the ground, im not sure if he was just laying down or collapsed in having a black out again. We got him up in about 20 mins (vs the hour on saturday) and he walked over and started eating his hay like nothing happened but she did say it took him a while to find his back legs to get steady.
We called the vet but she said there was nothing more she could do and pretty much wasnt going to come out. I took it upon myself to start to feel over his whole body since only his lower legs have been looked at and his neck/spine. I found a "squishy" type lump on his right back rump on the side and I could press on it and move it around. He didnt seem to react to it but I compared it to the other side and there wasnt one there. I called the vet and she dismissed it as a hemotoma, but on the flip side he has never fallen on that bad side, only the other each time. Also I found a gold ball sized lump in his throat latch area which I am guessing is a swollen gland.
The barn owner checked him out this morning and he was standing and both the lumps have not gotten any bigger.
Im to the point that when I get the blood work results back I am going to get a different opinion from the vet I have always used on him. I didnt use her first because she does not to emergency calls.
I have not had good encounters with doctors myself, so I am always on the skeptical side. I still think it is his heart etc and I was going to start putting him on some asprin, just in case he may of had a blood clot of some sort that is causing all of this.
I am just so frustrated at this point
I have been thinking about your guy and some of his symptoms are similar to ones I had with a mini stallion of mine, he had seizures that left him staggering after an episode. it was difficult to get him back to his stall and took some time. He would be confused and blind for about an hour, I would put him in a dark stall until he recovered. He had several, was put on steroids for a while, and eventually stopped having them.
I hope you can find out what his problem is, wish you well.
I hope you can find out what his problem is, wish you well.
UPDATE ON MAX: I had MY regular vet come out and I particularly like her because she is no BS and tells you how it is and right to the point; she is a little rough but if you can get around that she is a fantastic vet.
#1: She told me his heart is fine and that murmur is nothing to worry about, that is just an age thing, plus it does not sound like a stressed, struggling or diseased heart at all. Also she said the irregular heart beat that the other vet was hearing was like a third heart beat which is more often the signs of an "athletic heart" so it opens up alot wider than others (I guess you can say like an enlarged heart that you hear TB's having, and he is part TB).
#2: Its 100% not neurological and she could tell me without doing tests, its not EPM and that was just ludicrist to even go down that path that the other vet was heck bent on.
#3: The lump I found, she thought was just cool (lol thats my vet for you), so she did an ultrasound because she just wanted to see what it was. It presented it self like a bone but didnt feel like a fragment. She believes its a calcium deposit or something of that nature and doesnt feel it should hurt him at all and it could have been there for a while and ive just never noticed or seen it because it does move around freely (to me thats just gross lol).
#4: His front leg below the knee is swollen and sore because he blew out a blood vessel and the vet said that is just extremely painful for a horse when that happens and will take a while to heal. Hence why when I barely touch it he pulls it away quickly.
#5: She is 95% sure that his rear end problems are spine related. She said she thinks from the 2 bad falls he had while being a competition horse finally caught up to him in old age (just like a human would) and he stepped wrong, slipped wrong etc and has a pinched nerve(s) or even a slipped disk etc. So at this point we are having a chiroprator come out and work on him and my vet thinks that will help his movement come back, but she suggested that I do not ride him any more, so i think his riding days are over. This breaks my heart because he absolutely loves to jump.
On another positive note, he is laying down and getting back up on his own without encouragement from people or being pulled up and when he turns in a circle he is laterlly (sp) using his back legs where as before he would be shuffling or tripping over himself.
I appreciate all the prayers and I think they helped. That other vet just had us hanging onto a rope in not knowing what to do and telling us there was nothing we could do for him. Well with my experience with doctors all around, there is ALWAYS something you can do and I wasnt about to give up and just let him live like that.
#1: She told me his heart is fine and that murmur is nothing to worry about, that is just an age thing, plus it does not sound like a stressed, struggling or diseased heart at all. Also she said the irregular heart beat that the other vet was hearing was like a third heart beat which is more often the signs of an "athletic heart" so it opens up alot wider than others (I guess you can say like an enlarged heart that you hear TB's having, and he is part TB).
#2: Its 100% not neurological and she could tell me without doing tests, its not EPM and that was just ludicrist to even go down that path that the other vet was heck bent on.
#3: The lump I found, she thought was just cool (lol thats my vet for you), so she did an ultrasound because she just wanted to see what it was. It presented it self like a bone but didnt feel like a fragment. She believes its a calcium deposit or something of that nature and doesnt feel it should hurt him at all and it could have been there for a while and ive just never noticed or seen it because it does move around freely (to me thats just gross lol).
#4: His front leg below the knee is swollen and sore because he blew out a blood vessel and the vet said that is just extremely painful for a horse when that happens and will take a while to heal. Hence why when I barely touch it he pulls it away quickly.
#5: She is 95% sure that his rear end problems are spine related. She said she thinks from the 2 bad falls he had while being a competition horse finally caught up to him in old age (just like a human would) and he stepped wrong, slipped wrong etc and has a pinched nerve(s) or even a slipped disk etc. So at this point we are having a chiroprator come out and work on him and my vet thinks that will help his movement come back, but she suggested that I do not ride him any more, so i think his riding days are over. This breaks my heart because he absolutely loves to jump.
On another positive note, he is laying down and getting back up on his own without encouragement from people or being pulled up and when he turns in a circle he is laterlly (sp) using his back legs where as before he would be shuffling or tripping over himself.
I appreciate all the prayers and I think they helped. That other vet just had us hanging onto a rope in not knowing what to do and telling us there was nothing we could do for him. Well with my experience with doctors all around, there is ALWAYS something you can do and I wasnt about to give up and just let him live like that.
chandab
Well-Known Member
Glad you were able to get some answers and that your regular vet wasn't so gloom and doom for your boy. even though he loves jumping, I'm sure he won't mind retirement (you might have to do something non-taxing with him to keep his mind fresh, but he probably won't mind retirement).
He's been retired from the show ring since he was 23 I believe, We have been doing just trail riding and low jumping since then. But he is smarter then most horses and trust me he will find things to keep his mind sharp. Thats part of the reason he hasnt gotten worse, its obvious he knows there is something wrong and has been very aware of what he does. As my trainer said he is one of those one in a million that should have been a human because hes so smart.
Riverrose28
Well-Known Member
Glad to hear you finally got some answers, and hopefully on the road to recovery
BiologyBrain
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Sounds like your guy is a great prospect for trick training! It'd keep his mind sharp and be non-taxing to his system! Good luck!
I will definitely keep you updated on his progress. I went to see him again last night (as I have been) and he was being his normal spunky self in not letting me put anything into his mouth, which is a good sign; before he was letting me do whatever. He also was able to whirl around quickly on his haunches so i think his rear is coming back slowly but surely but that front leg where he blew out that blood vessel isnt helping anything. But he ate a nice 1/2 bucket full of grain and beet pulp with corn oil so his appetite is fully back. We are trying to pack on the pounds before fall officially gets here since he was almost skin and bones on saturday from all the stress and trauma he had been going through. He always looses weight in the winter, always has for the past 16 years, so we want to make sure he has enough on him like he should have.
His recovery is slow and minimal day by day but I will take that over no progress at all. Its going to be a long hard road for him; once the chiropractor sees him and he is moving better I will start to hand walk him up and down a hill to get his muscles and stamina back since I cant ride him.
His recovery is slow and minimal day by day but I will take that over no progress at all. Its going to be a long hard road for him; once the chiropractor sees him and he is moving better I will start to hand walk him up and down a hill to get his muscles and stamina back since I cant ride him.
This is wonderful news!! I'm thrilled for both of you.
Good luck with the chiro, please keep us informed on how it goes.
Will be keeping the prayers coming.
chandab
Well-Known Member
Don't forget to put him on something for ulcers, I'm sure the stress from all this has probably started at least a few small ones. For easy OTC ulcer meds, I like U-Gard pellets; it doesn't treat them like GastroGard does, but it does seem to keep them at bay. And, treating for ulcers won't do any harm.
BSharpRanch
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I am so tickled to hear the good news! We had an old time vet like that, he just "knew" things. Yes, trick training is good, but do think how a trick could get him into trouble if he should use it on his own.
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I am so delighted that your regular vet had some answers for you, and it sounds very positive for him. May he enjoy his retirement and you, too. I'm sure there are lovely things you two can do together...just having him around and enjoying his company can be good enough!! I am a firm believer that we owe it to our older horses to hold on to them and love them through their retirement, thanking them for the many years they gave us doing the things we asked of them. LOVE IT and I'm so happy for you both !!
That you all for your comments and encouragements. He has been on a liquid med for any stomach problems the banamine might try to give him since we are giving him a dose of it every day.
On Saturday he surprised us all when I was giving him a bath out in his paddock and he started to fuss as normal because he hates water and decided he wanted to turn around so I let him and as I proceeded to try to give him his bath he began to move. Then without me really thinking about it I yelled at him to stop moving so fast and then I realized what I said; I stopped what I was doing and stood still as he walked away from me engaging his rear legs almost fully. I was like holy crap your walking normal! It was like an over night thing to! Now we just have to get that front leg with the blown out blood vessel to heal so he can turn without a problem. The barn is going to attempt to let him out for like 2 hours today after breakfast and watch him with the others. We dont want the others to stress him out or anything like that since he isnt 100% but we want him to start interacting again and moving more then a few feet and across the paddock and back. Im hoping on thursday I can give him his last dose of banamine and then see what happens from there.
On Saturday he surprised us all when I was giving him a bath out in his paddock and he started to fuss as normal because he hates water and decided he wanted to turn around so I let him and as I proceeded to try to give him his bath he began to move. Then without me really thinking about it I yelled at him to stop moving so fast and then I realized what I said; I stopped what I was doing and stood still as he walked away from me engaging his rear legs almost fully. I was like holy crap your walking normal! It was like an over night thing to! Now we just have to get that front leg with the blown out blood vessel to heal so he can turn without a problem. The barn is going to attempt to let him out for like 2 hours today after breakfast and watch him with the others. We dont want the others to stress him out or anything like that since he isnt 100% but we want him to start interacting again and moving more then a few feet and across the paddock and back. Im hoping on thursday I can give him his last dose of banamine and then see what happens from there.
Got a message from the barn late this morning and they said Max was up at the front gate waiting for them to feed him. (he has been at the back of the paddock near where all his food is since the incident a week ago) This is great news and I jokingly said that he must have heard me when I was telling him that if he was walking pretty good on Monday that he would go out with his buddies for a few hours to socialize for the first time haha
Rhondaalaska
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That is great news, I am so happy for you.
Pam Crise
Active Member
This sounds like what we went through 1 year ago almost to the date with one of our miniatures. She is only 30" tall and our best jumper - her HOF would be in reach in the next show season (2013). Our miniatures all have individual stalls they eat in then are turned out into groups of about 6 where they can come and go from the stalls into dry lots. Lots are clean - pasture when they go out is clean - basically what they can get into without me knowing is only what may blow over from the tree line before I get to it. I am home during the day and can keep an eye on things. She was fine at 8:00 breakfast, was turned out with her group around 11:00. I went out at 12:30 to let out another group and she was fine - last place I saw her was laying in a stall in front of the fan with her group standing over her. One being 36.5" and wanting to move up the pecking order. We went out at 5:00 to do supper chores. She came in from the dry lot with no coordination in her hindend. She walked like she was drunk. Her gums were very pale and her heart rate was high. I called our vet, use a local teaching University, then decided to just get her to the clinic. Something toxic was all I could think of, although I had no clue how she'd get something toxic. I rode with her for 20 minutes in the trailer because she would not have been able to stand. CBC showed no toxins. I told the clinic I thought it was trauma - maybe she had gotten kicked or stepped on where I saw her laying last. They told me it had to be something in her neck for it show up in the back legs. And it was fine. (Me thinking to myself - huh??, seriously....I disagree) She stayed the night on steroids. Long story short the clinic thought they had a perfect candidate for an EPM study. I did tell them to go ahead and do a spinal tap to rule it out as that was the kick they were on. We have gone around before with inside medicine although my outside vets are awesome. I kept telling them trauma - they kept saying no. They even refused to do back x-rays - I was wrong. She got better with the steroids. After our outside vet stepped in against politics we got the mare home with EPM meds - took 4 days. I consider them 4 wasted days of which she could have been treated at home. She no sooner got home and couldn't walk again. Her steroids had worn off. Gave her more and she could walk again. Outside vet requested a back x-ray - they did not find anything fortunately. EPM came back neg. She did DMSO by IV to get more inflammation out that the steroids weren't getting. I do use communicators, reiki, masterson, holistic medication, chiropractor, accupuncture, massage - my clinic does not believe in any of it. (I also do not like human medical doctors.) Many times one or the other has done more than the vet or doctor, not that I'd replace my vets but the others have their place. I do the basics of masterson and healing touch myself and started calling contacts. We also have a human physical therapist friend we talked to. We got her home and had the chiro look at her right away - she did accupunture on her, we did healing touch (energy work like reiki),massages, and used essential oils on her. We of course rearranged things so she would be with her sister who wouldn't hurt her. I noticed every time we worked on a very painful area her heart rate went way up from the pain then would go back done as we worked. I believe our vet even mentioned a murmur which ended up to be nothing. With in a few days a hoof print right on her spine showed up! It was just 2 vertabraes in front of he spinal tap area. Had they gone into the kick area I'm sure we'd have had more issues. Our physical therapist friend said every time the clinic pulled on her tail to help her walk or do another lameness test it made it worse. Accupunture was done again 2 weeks later. It took quite a few weeks of energy work, massages, and oils to get her feeling and moving good again. It took even longer to get the inflammation out of the spinal tap area then the actual kick area. Clinic told me she'd never jump again. They still insist that "we will never know what it was!" She went to 3 shows in 2013 and got her 20 points needed for her HOF. As of Aug 3rd she was retired. If her back had flared again she'd have been done then. She is still motoring around fine and happily retired. So... long but I wanted to share....hope your guy stays on track and it works out for you both too. It's so much better to have them retired and hanging around happy then the alternative. We were in the same stressful situation as you - give it more time or not? You can get very frustrated trying to find someone who's willing to help you find an answer. Fortunately I have learned to follow my heart as you did and it is very seldom wrong. In the end if we have to make that heart wrenching decision I believe it is the last thing we can do to for our beloved animals. Pam
Pam Crise -> Thank you for sharing that story about your mini, funny how that was a very similar situation with my big guy. I was ruling out EPM because the last 2-3 years he has gotten the preventative shot once it became available through our vet; I had a mare with EPM and I was very skeptical that it was that because he wasnt getting worse, but yet at the time he wasnt getting much better.
His last packed of steroids was yesterday so we will see what happens, he will still be on the banamine though for the time being. If I need to keep him on steriods till the Chiropractor makes it out there then so be it to make him more comfortable. That front left leg seems to be the only thing really giving him alot of trouble where that blood vessel blew but it is less tender, he at least lets me put a little pressure on it now where as before the lightest touch he would yank it from me.
We decided since he is a little off still when he turns bc of that front leg we are going to turn one of his buddies, a young gypsy mare, into the paddock with him today to see what he does. We are just nervous with just turning him loose out there with that leg with all three of them. On the other hand since he is feeling better we can tell he is getting bored and lonely so he just stands around instead of moving.
His last packed of steroids was yesterday so we will see what happens, he will still be on the banamine though for the time being. If I need to keep him on steriods till the Chiropractor makes it out there then so be it to make him more comfortable. That front left leg seems to be the only thing really giving him alot of trouble where that blood vessel blew but it is less tender, he at least lets me put a little pressure on it now where as before the lightest touch he would yank it from me.
We decided since he is a little off still when he turns bc of that front leg we are going to turn one of his buddies, a young gypsy mare, into the paddock with him today to see what he does. We are just nervous with just turning him loose out there with that leg with all three of them. On the other hand since he is feeling better we can tell he is getting bored and lonely so he just stands around instead of moving.
