Troubles picking hooves

[Genie]

We use cross ties for hoof work.

For those horses that are young or have always been "jitterbugging" for their hooves, we use the heavy duty clip and put it on the nose, like a twitch.

We don't hoof pick as often as it sounds like you do.

If we were playing around with the feet that often it should be like "second nature" you would think, unless there has been a bad experience she can't forget or you may also be channelling some fear "vibes" to her.

I believe, and have heard, that horses know how comfortable you are working around them.

 

[Mareish Mom]

Have you seen the "squeeze" game played by Clinton Anderson or Pat Parelli? This would be a great one to work with her on getting comfortable being between the fence and you. Helps with all sorts of things like trailer loading, going in and out of gates, over bridges etc. etc. I would play lots of this with her until she is comfortable. Stop worrying so much about her hooves, they really don't need to be cleaned every day at all. And since you are focussed on that she probably feels your tension. Try to be a little less goal oriented when working with her, take baby steps and take the time it takes. If she had a big wound that needed taking care of or was desperate for vaccinations that would be one thing, but hoof picking can wait. I used to clean my horses hooves every day but now I almost never do and have LESS problems with thrush as a result. After all, a wild horse doesn't have it's hooves picked out EVER! (My horses are barefoot, different story if they are shod, but I'm assuming your mini is not wearing shoes).

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Since she is not good at being tied period then I highly wouldn't recommend doing this. Especially with a shorter lead she is just going to feel trapped and she will just fight you worse. Just work with on tying first, just leave her tied for an hour but be there in case something does go wrong. Cross ties are fine, I even do them, but its not going to work in this situation if she is not good with being tied. I highly recommend working her on the ground first and get her respect.

 

[HGFarm]

Haven't read others comments but she thinks she is the boss. What ever you are doing- she is getting by with not getting her feet done, so she wins. I would cross tie her and get after her a bit more when she wont let you pick up her feet to clean them. Her whole body language- ears pinned, trying to bite, moving away- says she is telling you how this whole thing is going to go, just like a kid throwing a tantrum.

She is getting away with it, and also getting away with not being tied. She has you buffaloed. There is a difference in a horse being truly afraid of something and a horse being the boss and getting away with everything they can because they think they are in charge.

Here is the trick with Minis- They are VERY smart and learn VERY fast what they can get away with!

I would not only give her some lessons in standing tied, while you groom, etc... if she fusses around so what- keep grooming. She is going to learn she can't go anywhere- she is tied and she must stand there. Any horse here that would think of kicking out of being nasty is swiftly and harshly reprimanded. It sounds like you are afraid she is going to kick you once you are in that 'zone'. Has she ever tried? The more she learns she is the boss, the more she is going to insist she get her own way.

Was she never handled by the previous owner, or what she spoiled because she is little and cute and is now a little snot? There were some Minis that came up for sale here because the owners had always had Toy Poodles- and that is how they treated the Minis when they got them. They had a two year old that they quickly could no longer even handle because she was behaving so badly- even just to lead her from the stall to the pasture. They became scared of the horses and couldnt understand why they didnt act like their little dogs (I really wondered who was in charge of the household there too) They were ready to give the horses away because they became little demons and were spoiled.

I would also cross tie her when working on her feet so she can't reach around to bite you- or what Minimor suggested with the elbow. Insist that her feet are getting cleaned and insist that she behave herself until it gets done. If she yanks her feet away, ok,correct her firmly, pick it up again and continue cleaning and keep after it until that foot is done. She is going to learn she has to do it and you are not going to give in and go away. Make sure when you are picking up her feet that you are not picking them up too high or pulling them out where you are cramping her legs. I also dont agree with using treats. If the horse is spending 90% of the time fussing and being bad, what do they think they are getting the treat for? It continues the bad behavior. And just like a kid, if she starts misbaving at this, she is going to start playing the boss at other things and just become unmanageable and sour basicly. If she has had farrier work done many times in her life, I feel she is just playing games here as the farrier would insist that she stand with her feet up to be worked on for more than just 3 seconds. Just my opinion here.

Question: When you have her foot picked up and she starts to move, are you dropping her foot and allowing her to move away? I dont do that- I move with them with the foot still up and still cleaning and put it down when I am done.

 

[jyuukai]

I agree with working her on being tied first and then ground manners like being able to swing her butt away from you or getting comfortable with being pushed up against the fence. After that I would personally start using the approach and retreat method that some people have mentioned here. Rub towards her bottom legs to where she starts getting tense and then rub away. I have found that it doesn't take long to be able to touch any part of the horse with this method! But it's important that they have basic ground manners/ground training before you move on to anything else.

I also want to ask if you have a gravel road or a paved drive or anything of the sort? I notice that when horses are walked on these areas it can knock the dirt/mud out of their hooves for the most part. If she is ok with being led maybe you can try that to semi 'clean' her hooves so that you can put your mind at ease? I totally understand being worried about it, I'm a neat-freak with my horses and I hate when they are dirty or muddy or if their hooves are gross!

 

[Marsha Cassada]

I am working with a project horse right now. He has been unhandled the whole of his 5-6 years (no one knows his true age; the equine dentist deduced this last week). He did NOT like being tied. He is the back-up-rear sort. Didn't like his hind end handled or his feet. He didn't even like being brushed.

I've had him for 3 weeks now and there is a huge improvement! I am so proud of him. We go for 2 mile walks about 3 times a week and work on giving to pressure (zigzagging across the road and making circles). I carry a cue stick (whip) on our walks. The walks have done the most for him, I believe.

I DO tie my project horse at least twice a day. Usually when I clean the pen and when I am doing one of the feedings. He is tied for about 10 minutes. While he's tied, I walk around him with the buckets, touch his backside in passing, and generally just invade his space frequently. Try tying your girl up several times a day for short periods, just a few minutes. Horses MUST learn to be tied.

Ending on a good note is: the hrose being tied for 2 minutes without a fuss. Good pony!! Ending on a good note is the horse doing one tiny thing correctly and you stop. Good pony!! You held her foot for 3 seconds? Good pony!!

I would not use treats to bribe behavior. That CAN be the cause of the biting. Vocal praise and scratches are much more effective IMO.

If you can have a few lessons with a trainer you will be amazed at how much better you get along!! A few lessons with a good trainer is the best horse money I ever spent. Videos and books are no substitute for a few lessons in real life horse management.

Everybody gets discouraged sometimes. And it is a fact of life that not every horse is matched correctly with the right person. This horse may not be THE horse for you. But whatever you learn from her will never go to waste.

 

[islandminis]

When I had big horses I had one who really fussed and pulled when doing his feet - I had a Clinton Anderson DVD on problem solving and his solution was that every time the horse refused to stand and let his hooves be handle you take him out and make him work - lunging at the trot, backing up etc - then go back and pick up the foot. It worked on Joey - a 16 hand boy built like a sofa - try it, I think it helps to let them realise that if they fuss and pull they get work and if they stand nicely they can be lazy LOL

 

[Earthology]

Thanks everyone for the tips!

Will look into the squeeze game!

 

[Jean_B]

You need to spend some time learning horse 'psychology'. Watch horses in a herd setting. There is a definite pecking order and those that are at the top of the pecking DEMAND respect by biting, kicking, laying back their ears, and smacking around those that are lower than them. The lower ones soon learn their place in the order and meekly stay out of the other's way.

Your mare has determined that she is the boss of the herd and that you are down on the pecking order. You need to reverse that. You might want to take her to a knowledgeable horse owner/breeder who has lots of experience in "fixing" problem horses - where they will not be training your mare - they will be training YOU. Only when you know HOW and WHEN to apply certain techniques will you be truly successful. You CAN be firm and demand her respect without being abusive. You just have to learn how.

You have received LOTS of different suggestions here. Some might work, some won't because your mare has you completely under her control. Once you and YOUR trainer determine what will work, you need to be consistent in doing things....not 5 minutes of one technique and then 5 minutes of another. Flitting back and forth between techniques will only serve to confuse her and frustrate you.

Here's an example. A neighbor and good friend bought several miniature mares but really knew nothing about how to handle any kind of equine. The farrier went to her place after doing my horses - called me and said he was not going back there again unless I went along. Apparently one mare decided SHE was the boss - up in the air, striking, lunging forward, etc. which can be quite dangerous. Now, this was a mare who had previously been owned by someone who really knew what they were doing, but this mare was SMART and quickly learned she would be able to get away with this. So I went down there - took a soft rope and put a loop over her nose. And any time she so much as moved a muscle she got the tar jerked out of her. She snorted, she blew, she tried to strike, and I would jerk even harder. (I was sore for about a week.) But after about the 3rd go-round she stood like a rock and never caused a problem ever again. BUT - this is NOT something for the novice to try. I have been handling horses for over 45 years and I knew what/how to do and I knew this mare just needed an attitude adjustment. If she had been a scared, half-wild little thing - my approach would have been entirely different.

 

[Matt73]

You need to spend some time learning horse 'psychology'. Watch horses in a herd setting. There is a definite pecking order and those that are at the top of the pecking DEMAND respect by biting, kicking, laying back their ears, and smacking around those that are lower than them. The lower ones soon learn their place in the order and meekly stay out of the other's way.

Your mare has determined that she is the boss of the herd and that you are down on the pecking order. You need to reverse that. You might want to take her to a knowledgeable horse owner/breeder who has lots of experience in "fixing" problem horses - where they will not be training your mare - they will be training YOU. Only when you know HOW and WHEN to apply certain techniques will you be truly successful. You CAN be firm and demand her respect without being abusive. You just have to learn how.

You have received LOTS of different suggestions here. Some might work, some won't because your mare has you completely under her control. Once you and YOUR trainer determine what will work, you need to be consistent in doing things....not 5 minutes of one technique and then 5 minutes of another. Flitting back and forth between techniques will only serve to confuse her and frustrate you.

Here's an example. A neighbor and good friend bought several miniature mares but really knew nothing about how to handle any kind of equine. The farrier went to her place after doing my horses - called me and said he was not going back there again unless I went along. Apparently one mare decided SHE was the boss - up in the air, striking, lunging forward, etc. which can be quite dangerous. Now, this was a mare who had previously been owned by someone who really knew what they were doing, but this mare was SMART and quickly learned she would be able to get away with this. So I went down there - took a soft rope and put a loop over her nose. And any time she so much as moved a muscle she got the tar jerked out of her. She snorted, she blew, she tried to strike, and I would jerk even harder. (I was sore for about a week.) But after about the 3rd go-round she stood like a rock and never caused a problem ever again. BUT - this is NOT something for the novice to try. I have been handling horses for over 45 years and I knew what/how to do and I knew this mare just needed an attitude adjustment. If she had been a scared, half-wild little thing - my approach would have been entirely different.

I totally agree. I was grooming for a hunter/jumper stable years ago. This gorgeous 4 year old 17.2h Oldenberg had just come over from Germany (when I say gorgeous...I still think about this animal

). He had a nasty habit of kicking out with his hind feet when you went to pick them out. Before anyone got killed in the process of that nasty habit, the owner/trainer's wife went back there with a crop and went to pick out his feet. At the hint of wanting to kick out he got walloped (a swift elbow to the ribs and screaming did the trick, I seem to recall). Try number two. Tried again. Walloped! Not beaten, but enough for him to say, "WHOA! What the $#^%!". He associated doing that with a nasty outcome. He stopped doing it immediately after that. I was his charge for 8 weeks while we travelled to Wellington. He never ever tried anything like that again. Big or small, they are the same...and many times a swift whack is what they need (non of this PC no spanking stuff lol).

Really quickly...When I got Willow as a 9 month old. She only made to nip me once. I whacked her swiftly on her chest and screamed "NO!". She hasn't tried that ever again. Negative reinforcement is a useful training tool for many vices; they associate the undesirable behaviour with a bad outcome and quit very quickly

On the other hand, if you let them get away with it it can be harder to get rid of and get worse quickly, too.