Truly frustrated tonight

[GrandmaC]

Hope y'all don't mind me sharing this. Figured everyone started new at one time or another and would understand the feeling.

I'm learning so much and it can be a little over whelming. One told me 'buy what you like'. But what if what I like isn't what is going to win. When I first started wanting to get into mini's it was just with the intent to have family fun, enjoy life and drive.

Now I decided I wanted to show. I hear color sells and color catches the judges's eye.

If you have two like confirmation mini's and one is a plain color and one a flashy color, the flashy color most likely will win.

I'm one who likes all colors except cremello's. Can I be just as happy with a plain sorrel or bay mare as I could a pinto? You betcha ya. Do I enjoy a golden Palomino? You betcha! If I had a choice between a solid mare who wanted to please, can pick up and move it and was pleasing or a pain in the tail, hyper wanna do their own things loud colored who would I pick? Well the pleasing one where I can sit back and enjoy the ride and the countryside. It was simpler when my goals were just to drive with the family and have fun.

Do I enjoy a little prance and spirit? Yeppers and I equally enjoy a mellow horse too.

It has been more complicated since I decided I'd like to show. When I was just going to have fun it didn't matter how long a head was or if it had a good tail set or if it was a half inch over A or B.

The people I have talked to in the mini world have all been amazing and wonderfully helpful. And you all know who you are out there.

Taking time to answer my million questions. I almost wish I could summon a panel of six well known, respected and top breeders and have a stiff drink (or cup of coffee) while going over pedigrees, pictures and video's and come up with the ones I should buy.

But that's unrealistic. Ain't happening.

I just don't know what to do. There is one I knew I wanted to buy, but when I showed it's picture to 4 people in the last 3 days literally 2 said 'WOW, N I I I CE' while the other two said 'UGGG"'.

and now I'm second guessing myself.

Tonight I'm going to try to research and see what the standard is.

So tell me people, in your own personal experience what do you look for and like in Heads? Tail sets? Movement? Color? Necks?

And pictures can be so deceiving. I once disregarded a QH stallion just based on his pictures until one day I went to the stallion station in California to see one I just thought I needed to breed my mare to. They paraded all the stallions they had in front of me and when they asked if I wanted to see the one i really had no interest in I politely said Ok.

I was like OMG what was I about to pass up. He was drop dead gorgeous. He was not at all photogenic but let me tell you he was amazing in person. Pictures can be so deceiving.

Thank you for letting me share and vent. I was at first like this

and now I am like

 

[love_casper]

I am by far not qualified to give a helpful opinion... I just wanted to say that it was somewhat refreshing to read your post. Sometimes the opinion of a newcomer into our world is exactly what we need to remind us to remove our heads from our own behinds and look at our industry objectively.

It's "The Breed Show Game" we play. Pedigrees earn points, show wins earn points, futurities get you monopoly money, you can go directly to Go and collect $200 if you have professional pictures, and if you have enough points to your name you can get a get outta jail free card. Those who have been playing long enough to understand the rules of the game get mad at the newbies who break all the rules with their blissful ignorance. There are people like you, who want to play the game, but the day and night differences in interpretation of the rules is about enough to scare 'em off. Then there are old timers who leave for much the same reason... The Game's not fun anymore, the rules don't make sense, and it's nearly impossible to play when half the monopoly money has myseriously vanished... lol!

It doesn't get a whole lot easier. Balancing enjoying what you want to do with looking like a good player. I just say I won't buy a horse I didn't personally love for the point of racking up points in an industry ruled by opinions of others. Best quote I ever heard was "You can't honestly not care about what other people think. Our brains are wired to do that. But don't give up the things that are important to you for someone whose name you won't know in 10 years." Not advocating breeding/buying the horribly conformed barely-looks-like-a-horse types that we all know are out there... but you don't have to follow the halter ring religously. There are people who think the only good players are the ones producing the next halter champion, my feeling is if everyone thinks that way they'll lose sight of why they fell in love with the breed(or horses period!) in the first place. You probably don't care about you're dog's length of leg or shape of face, and I think it's only those mass-producing and playing The Dog Breed Show Game that get critical of their pets.

I'm a - or at least was a few years ago when I entered the world of minis - highly influencable youth who quickly took to the opinions of the halter breeders. Now I'm slightly older and a bit less breed-biased, and beginning to think the only important advice I've heard is "The love of winning is the root of all evil when it comes to animals and children." Sorry I didn't answer many of your questions, I just kinda relate.

 

[GrandmaC]

You know, everyone I have talked to (and it' been over half a dozen) and asked questions of have been absolutely delightful and helpful. The frustration is that there are so many different opinions. And not judgmental opinions. Just opinion on what they like and look for. But I sure learned a whole lot over the past few days. It just seems like it got more complicated once I decided to show.

As mentioned above when it's family fun and driving who cares about the tail set, or if it's a 1/2 inch over in height ot if the eyes are to small or the face is to long. Or if theres a nice dish or not. That's ok. I'll learn and pay my dues just like everyone on here has either had to do or are doing now. I believe with hard work I can have fun and enjoy family fun time and driving. Just was frustrated wondering if I knew what I was looking for when looking to buy.

 

[REO]

I tried to PM you, but it wouldn't let me.

I know the feeling of joy one gets to get a mini that they LOVE and I enjoy helping people look for that special mini.

A lot of people ask me to look at photos of horses and I tell them exactly what I see. I just love helping people!

Most judges are big horse judges and some don't like pintos, some prefer this color or that color that goes along with whatever big breed they like best. So it isn't the most flashy that wins. Some times it's the level of grooming, or who is on the lead, etc that might make them decide one horse over another. It SHOULD be 100% conformation, but judges are human like the rest of us!

My advise is TAKE YOUR TIME! No matter what mini you buy, it will get into your heart (deep!) so take your time and get just the right one.

 

[sfmini]

I agree with Reo, take your time.

Go to shows and see if you can identify what you like and want.

You will see sometimes in multiple judge shows a horse you like win under one judge and get nothing under another, and somewhere in the middle under another. The reverse is true as well, something you really don't like winning.

There is no generic horse that will appeal to all judges, thus the differing opinions. In some cases, those differing opinions will lose every class under every judge everywhere.

Personally, I go for a pretty (to me arab type), dishy head, long clean high set neck and balanced movement. A mini that would be a really nice dressage horse if it were big enough. Why? I have a dressage and arab background(yes, arabs aren't much good for dressage if they are halter 'quality').

Pedigree? Naw, not really unless I see consistent produce that are gorgeous and winning. Color? Never. Don't care much except for cremello and perlino. Don't like the looks of them.

For me, right now, there is only one pedigree that has the look I like and the success I want and I bought two of them. First time I have been influenced by pedigree, but only because the horses are gorgeous to me.

At the end of the day, I am the only one who has to be satisfied with my horses and willing to walk out of the ring with no ribbons and be perfectly happy with my attempt.

Good luck.

 

[Tab]

Sounds like a case of info overload! Personally, if the horse is built beautifully but it doesn't have a pretty head I tend to pass it up. However, my view of a pretty head and the next persons may be different.

Color doesn't matter very much to me but movement and conformation are most important to me. I do love pintos, so if I can have that, too, it's a bonus. I don't really like overos or blue eyes, but that is just me! There are thousands that love those features.

Movement is important to me. I suppose that is why I absolutely must see the horse in person. Temperament? I have rarely found a temperament on a mini that I didn't like. Maybe that is just lucky.

Pedigrees? If the horse was beautiful I could have cared less that he had the lines-of-the moment or little known foundation lines. In the past four years I have picked up on lines that I found produced consistently the horses that catch my eye.

Solids are wonderful. There are so many different patterns and color modifiers. Sometimes having a good bay, chestnut, or black horse is an excellent basis for a breeding program.

I have to add to this post that in some ways I guess I'm glad I haven't shown. I took what I knew from the big guys, and I also owned a big guy who had beautiful conformation so I wouldn't lose sight of what I wanted in my minis. Perhaps if I had shown I would have given up a long time ago!

 

[Sue_C.]

Conformation is first and foremost, that will catch my eye, and the horse has to have a pretty head, as well as a nice shiny healthy coat...of any colour. But, even in a show horse, I do not accept or suffer an idiot. I want my horses to be a pleasure to own, not just hot-house flowers. You CAN have it all, good looks, conformation, and great disposition.

We are lucky here, as we aren't "into" halter horses, everyone I know that shows (un-sactioned) are drivers. That certainly isn't to say our horses aren't good horses, just that we breed for it all, not just a horse that looks flashy, and dances on the end of a lead. Not trashing those that show halter...did it myself with my Appaloosas, but once they were old enough to ride/drive...they did that too; and were expected to be good at it.

I think, as I ramble on...what I am trying to say is this. At the end of the day, it is YOU who must be pleased with your choice(s). You could have a halter super-star that is too silly to walk in a straight line, and doesn't have the temperment to ever be driven...but if you want "only" a halter horse, you could be happy with that. But you have stated that you also want a driving horse...one sensible enough for family times. (MY idea of the perfect horse.) So, here is what I would do.

Check out the horses with solid driving foundations, and you will definately see a lot of well-put-up horses...with tons of refinement, but even more BRAINS. tHERE ARE LOTS OF GREAT HALTER HORSES WHO HAVE GONE ON TO DRIVE...AND WIN... (Sorry...left caps on...didn't mean to "holler". LOL!)

Good luck, and remember when you walk into a barn looking for that PERFECT horse...just take off the rose-coloured glasses...and look at them all as if they were soild black...don't get swayed by colour and pazzazz.

 

[mizbeth]

Hi

Yes this can be overwhelming for sure! I guess what you need to know now is what level of showing are you interested in doing? National - World Level will require a different horse and pocket book than local-regional shows, also how you want to place. G - RG etc. If you want to win at any level, most likely you will need a open pocket book - not always of course. The best thing to do is go to shows and watch who/what is winning in the type classes you wish to show in. Halter horses require a different look and attitude than a performance horse, but can be the same horse. Talk to some of the top trainers in the country and let them guide you. Find a mentor. If the horse is something (halter - driving) that the trainer will show or wants to show for you, then you would most likely could win with that one. Do you want to show a horse yourself or have a trainer do it? IF you want to show yourself then you might want to purchase a horse that has show experience and that has done well in the past. In addition a good show horse will only show as well as it is presented no matter how nice the horse is. If you have not shown before, you will need tutoring as well. More to think about

You will not get as many different opinions on what will show and win once you have decided what level of showing and type of classes you wish to show in. Most people are consistant in that regard. Also whether you wish to show A or R or both will help in decisions too. Whether the horse is colored or solid will make no difference to a judge in most cases (except for the color classes). The conformation and presentation of the horse will matter. Often color (the way it breaks up) can hide good conformation on a halter horse and hurt you in the long run, lots of color on a performance horse can be beneficial.

Yep, more opinions.

Welcome to the world of miniature horses! Good luck!

Beth

 

[little lady]

love_casper: you are so right on with your words!! You go girl!

REO: You are so thoughtful and soooo right these little horses get into your heart!

GrandmaC: Me being what I would consider a newbie know exactly what you are feeling and I do believe it is info overload. Just remember every person has there own opinion and that is what makes each of us unique. YOU have to do what YOU are comfortable and happy with. YOU have to look out in your pasture everyday at these horses, care and love them so let your heart and gut guide you with a bit of common sense. You always have the wonderful people of lilbeginings to bounce things off of.

Good luck!!

 

[targetsmom]

My 2 cents worth- I believe you said you have a background in big horses, in which case I would say TRUST YOUR GUT and remember that judges don't agree all the time either. And definitely take your time. And I would buy what you like, because the bottom line is that you want to be pleased when you look out in your pasture or barn. This is what we did and we are very pleased.

One thing you may find with minis is that because they are a new breed, and dwarfs were used in breeding, many of them have poor proportions - e.g. short legs, short necks and short, "goose" rumps. Sometimes it seems to me that breeders want to overcompensate by going for the longest necks, hips and legs possible! Well, maybe not that extreme, but I think if you look for BALANCE, you will do just fine.

Answers to some of your specific questions:

Heads: I want a pretty head with a little dish to it, and big, expressive eyes.

Tail sets: I happen to prefer a more rounded butt (quarter horse style) on my refined minis, and don't care if the tailset is low. I think I can tell the difference between a low tailset and a short hip (which I don't want). I want power in the rear for jumping and driving.

Movement: Many people like the high action, but I prefer a long, sweeping stride, with some suspension. Must have correct movement too, tracking up and no paddling, etc.

Color: All our minis are pintos (AMHA/AMHR and PtHA registered), although two are gray.

Necks: Yep. I like a nice, arched neck, but look at the SHOULDER angle first, not the neck itself.. Good shoulder angle should produce nice upright neck.

Pedigree: you didn't ask but all our minis have Rowdy, Blue Boy, and/or Buckeroo blood - and not a drop of Appy! They also have good temperaments and are VERSATILE.

I invite you to check out our website to see our small herd and all the things we do with them. Think about what we looked for, and then check out our 2009 foal (his own page).

 

[loveminis]

Good advice on here. DON'T feel like you have to buy one in a hurry. Are there any mini farms nearby that you can go visit and compare ?

Learn about conformation until you know what you are looking at. It takes time. I have been there, done that buying a mini sight unseen and it not being what they said when it gets here.

I like a short back, nice length of neck, straight legs, big hip, level topline, even bite, and a cute head ! I am a head hunter

Movement is a plus and so is color. No so into pedigrees but it is good to see pictures of the sire and dam.

Good luck in your search !

 

[DianeT]

Good conformation should be what you look at first. Color should always be second. I agree with go with your "gut". You want to Enjoy your first mini experience.

You can get to much overload in trying to research everything, this should be an enjoyable experience. You are going to ultimately have show horses and fun horses for your family.

If you are like the rest of us, you just want be able to show everything you buy.

This should be the time of your life.

Enjoy!!!!!!!!!

 

[albahurst]

I agree with much of what has been said already-

Take your time.

Go to shows and see what is winning.

Look for conformation first and foremost. Then, look for color

There are horses out there that will fit the bill in both categories

Do you want halter or performance?

Contact reputable breeders. Remember, small breeders can have a great program going.

Try to go see the horse in person, if you can.

Once you think you have found a horse, then have a pre purchase vet check done.

Take your time!

Good luck and have fun!!!!

Peggy

 

[Reble]

For sure look around, there is lots of good miniature horses out there now for sale.

We only want Pinto's in our program.

under 32.00" for our mares and stallion under 30.00" is the size for us.

We do try to get conformation that will help any faults with their partner,

(There is no perfect horse.)

Must have a gentle personality for all ages, our herd of 3 geldings, 1 stallion and 5 mares with 3 young born this year, all go out into the same pasture of 5 acres.

Our bloodline has, Buckeroo & Rowdy

I Love those pintos. I think you must get what you like, things change every year or so... We do it not just for showing but for our enjoyment & what we would want to buy, & we love it.

Good Luck things take time to learn, and I am still learning...I never say never....

 

[Mominis]

Hello there!

Having recently been in the same boat you are, I can totally relate. I joined this forum in September when my husband said we should look into getting a mini. It took me a while and a lot of help from the kind people on this forum (and at least an hour conversation on the phone with a well regarded breeder, thank you Stacy) to decide the difference between an A horse and an R horse and which direction I wanted to go.

Once I decided that I wanted an R horse for now, I started looking at every website I could find and found horses that I liked. I looked at the pedigrees of those horses and tried to find common horses in the pedigrees to see if there was a particular line I was gravitating toward. There was.

I then contacted the breeder that bred those lines about a horse on their sales list and my goals with that horse. The breeder was kind enough to tell me that the horse I liked was not suitable for what I wanted to do, but he had another that was. I bought that horse, sight unseen. I couldn't be more thrilled with the horse I got.

If you find a breeder that has lines that you like, tell them your goals. They know their horses better than anyone and can point you in the direction of the right one for you.

All of the time you are spending finding your perfect horse is well worth it. You are being very smart about your purchasing decision. I hope that the horse that you eventually find will be as great a fit for you as mine is for me.

Welcome to the wonderful world of the mini. I'm so glad you are here!

 

[MindyLee]

I too went through all that with folks oppinions. I too was very confused and a little frustrated in the end.

BUT with the good helpful advice...

I slowly put my herd togather with the colors, confirmation, pedigrees, and height that I LIKED. Now I was told to geld my stud and solid colors are a no go. BUT what I liked is what I bought. Now I have a small herd of 7 solid color minis at 34" and under and still have my stud intact and using him every year. On top of this, they are winning in the showring as well. I LOVE EACH AND EVEYONE of them and would'nt trade them for Buckeroo himself.

Like said above, go with your gut, what you researched, what you like, not with what the trend is cause by time you get a herd put togather with whats winning in the ring and popular, it will be moving on to the next trend. Your heart will let you know if the mini you are looking at is truely ment to be. You might be dissapointed by missing out on one or a few by some reasons, but again it might not have been ment to be and you will soon forget about it and move on. Everyones minis came to them by some reason or another, and in the end, you'll be truely happy with who's standing in your barn waiting for their hay & grain along with a big hug and scratch on the neck looking at you as their best friend...

Good luck and watch out for thoses scammers/liers.

 

[Joanne]

Well Grandma C,

You have wake up and look at your horses everyday. Feed them and care for them 24/7 and 365.

Buy what you want to look at. Everyone is different. Some people like Quarterhorse type, some Arabian, and some Thoroughbred. I am always glad there are people that are attacted to different horses. Not every horse is show horse material. That does not mean they are not an awesome horse for you! This is YOUR decision. You can ask others, and there will always be a difference of opinion on ANY topic.

Color??? Thankfully there are people that like all the colors in the miniature horse colored rainbow that is available to us. We forget that we are one of the few horse breeds that transends the color barrier. Appys, pinto, pintaloosas, and solids. All are available in a wide variety of sizes and shapes.

Buy what you love. They will bring you years of happiness, comfort you when the world seems dark, and bring joy to your grandchildren.

How great is that!!!

 

[Sandee]

As you can tell, Grandma C, you'll get many opinions and different views of "what's right". I agree with Joanne's statement about you're the one that will have to wake up and feed etc. so pick one that you want to "see" everyday.

Now that said, I just went against that very advice on my latest purchase. I looked for nearly a year for the "perfect" (in my eyes) horse. I wanted lots of leg action, black and white, R size etc. What did I end up with a seal brown, no chrome, but the boy has action to burn. Now if he can get me some ribbons and don't kill me in the process, I'll be happy.

Here's what I have a loving laid-back stallion, who's the wrong color (for me) but won a Championship driving; and an "old man", who's the right color but not the conformation that would win in halter, but won a pinto world reserve championship in obstacle driving; and a young mare that no judge picks in halter but to me is the prettiest, smartest thing on 4 feet (and still not the right color) who won state championship in pony/mini driving. How did I "pick" them as a "newbie" just 6 years ago? I relied on people that I trusted their opinions and then went with my gut.

I guess what I'm saying is you have to get out there and really look and Mr/Ms Perfect may not be what you end up with as long as they make you happy.

 

[GrandmaC]

My 2 cents worth- I believe you said you have a background in big horses, in which case I would say TRUST YOUR GUT and remember that judges don't agree all the time either.

But I never worried about it's tail set or such. All I needed to know is was it 'cowy'

Can it cut.

 

[targetsmom]

LOL - well you got lots of advice to buy what YOU like and one thing we like to watch is the roll-backs our minis do when we work them in the round pen!!! Something you might want to remember is that there are LOTS of ways to enjoy them.