Two training question- tire drag and trotting

[HoneyPie]

I have a couple questions about hooking a drag tire to the horse. How are the traces attached to the tire rope? (pics would thrill me immensely) do you use your regular driving harness? How far away from horse do you place the tire? I have light weight PVC training shafts that I drive him in but they offer no weight resistance and attach to the saddle. I was spoiled by my first two driving horses because they went from training shafts to cart like old pros but this gelding needs some confidence building before going to cart.

Next question is about an energetic trotter. My current project walks in the drive lines beautifully, stops and stands great, gives easy to the bit, and isn't spooky about anything! The trot is a different story! I ask him for the trot in the long lines or ground driving and he's like "ahhhhhh! Your trying to chase me down and eat me!!!!" I definitely don't want to be hanging on his mouth to slow him down! I have taught him vertical and lateral flexion, he is soft and supple at the walk,but he throws up his head, hollows his back, and moves out ninety miles an hour when I ask for a trot. He is eight years old and we have had him a little over a year. He is well broke to ride for children but was rode in a hackmore so I had to train to the bit. He was resistant to a smooth snaffle initially but I found a French link that he is happy with.What can I do to help him relax when trotting and not send him into flight mode without being in his mouth? He does this when free longing in the round pen too. Any time he asked to trot he raises his head, hollows his back, and heads out in an erratic trot.

My first two drivers I trained were so soft and required little bit movement to encourage a rounded frame and speed control. This boy is going to be my challenge but I am looking forward to it!

Thanks in advance for your advice!

 

[disneyhorse]

You will use something called a single tree to connect the traces to whatever he's pulling. It's a bar with hooks on either end.

I would tire out the horse before training to take the edge off of him so he's a bit too tired to fight you. Sounds like he's just got a lot of energy.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Have you had him checked by a chiropractor or other bodyworker? It could be he's got some pain somewhere that makes him tense, or he may have had a bad experience which makes him nervous when he gets going. I think the best thing for you is going to be a combination of approaches. First of all when you get him trotting in the round pen let him go until he settles into some sort of rhythm and gives you the least, tiniest sign of relaxing. Then let him come down to a walk and praise the living daylights out of him. You want him to start finding his balance and discover that nothing bad happens when he goes faster. Have you ever used sliding side reins? Those might be very helpful as well for showing him that it's more comfortable to stay soft and reach down than to hollow out.

The other approach is going to come when he's got tack on and you want to avoid hanging on his mouth. Break this down into tiny steps. What do you want him to do when he goes from walk to trot? You want him to increase his energy. You want him to round up. You want him to stay soft and relaxed. Focus on those things rather than thinking "trot." What you want to do is sort of edge him closer and closer to a transition but stop short of it and praise him for staying soft and round then back off, let him relax completely and try again. Eventually he'll break to trot and that is your time to seize the moment and praise, praise, praise!! Don't keep him trotting, mind you, act like the transition was the goal and quit there.

I clicker train so for me I'd be clicking him for any sign of stretch in the round pen, for rhythm in the round pen, especially for any licking and chewing while he moves in the round pen, etc. He has to STOP to get the reward, so he'd teach himself to deescalate without any overt lessons from you at all. Then when I had the bridle and reins on I'd be clicking for an increase in impulsion at the walk, for any gathering of his body like he was even thinking about an upward transition, and I'd make sure that when he started to take that first trot stride in a round frame I clicked him right then before he has a chance to get upset and get going. Then I'd up the criteria so he had to give me that transition when I asked, then lengthen it to a transition and a stride of trot, then a transition and two strides, etc. With all the stopping, relaxing and chewing after each click I bet he'd be pretty calm by then. The point is to get him thinking about the steps right in front of him and keep his mind engaged so he doesn't have time to get upset about the fact he's trotting. He's too busy thinking about the transition!

Just keep your steps tiny and do a lot of free walking and long stretching breaks with this horse to give him a comfort zone to come back to. The first time he gives you that soft trot transition and stops for his praise, do nothing but a huge loose happy walk afterwards and then quit for the day! Teach him that he can trust you to help him balance and that he doesn't have to be tense and scared.

Leia

 

[HoneyPie]

Thank you for the advice, I will definately be putting those suggestions into practice! As far as chiropractors go my sister in a liscensed human chiro and is also certified on horses so we have went that route and found nothing of significance. He acts like when I train a big horse and they are just learning to trot, they have no cadence or speed control they are constantly fast trotting or breaking gait. I would work them in circles to supple them and round their backs while controlling speed without hauling on their mouth. Sometimes I stand there with my drive lines and my mini and think "how do I apply my knowledge of training big horses to you?" LOL Thank you again for taking time help me.

On the tire drag I have seen some people that appear to have just tied the tire lines directly to the traces. Is this okay? Where do I find a singletree as I don't wish to remove any from my carts? The more I think about, I believe finding a singletree would be a better option.

 

[Sue_C.]

All I use in this instance, for a single tree, is a piece of board, about 2.50 feet long, with three ring-bolts, one about an inch or two from each end, and one in the middle of the opposite side for the tire to tie to. I also have two lengths of chain, with good heavy-duty clevis snaps big enough to fit into the trace holes, and quick release snaps on the other end, which snap onto the two ring-bolts on the "single tree".

 

[HoneyPie]

Thank you Sue! That looks like what I need!

 

[paintponylvr]

Honey Pie - my first single tree wasn't even as "nice" as Sue's, LOL. I used a portion of a broken pitch fork (sawed evenly) and drilled holes thru it. I then threaded single stands of hay string thru it - tying it the same length. Then to attach to my traces, I used two of those inexpensive caribeeners. They will break - as will the single strand of haystring if you end up in trouble. Later, since you don't want it to break, you swap them out for heavier snaps or chain.

Did the same thing for the center piece to the object you're pulling. A single strand of haystring on a slightly heavier snap. (that didn't break on this mare's full sister when I needed it to!),

I don't have the pics on this computer, but they are online. If you start here and click the left side arrow you will follow along with some of this mare's schooling. Howerver, a lot of steps not demo'd or demo'd in another online photo album.

Before you ask - yes - the training harness is braided haystring. Worked a charm - giving me something to do with my hands over ther winter and holding up great for a solid 3 years of driving training on various ponies. The traces need to be replaced this year (single layer) and may not happen since I haven't had time to braid lately... https://picasaweb.google.com/purplepaintpony/Bell1992ShetlandPonyMare#5473928061538608434

Currently, the straps on the single tree are much heavier braided straps. They won't be apt to break, and hope I don't ever wish they should. They would have to be cut with a knife in order to free pony from singletree if there was a problem. I don't have any pics that show that, but can get some...

 

[paintponylvr]

As to the training portion - sounds just like an untrained riding horse!

Leia's training is great, and having her fill it in for me in a way I can connect with - hmm, I may be trying a new way of training (the folks who have tried to demo clicker training with theri ponies are still at beginning stages and personally they've turned their ponies into huge "muggers" that I have nightmares of becoming spoiled "people eaters" - my biggest pet peeve with treats, clicker training and handfeeding. BIG GRIN Leia!! But then, others have the same nightmares or bad experiences with the NH stuff I'm trying to apply to driving ponies...so we can be listed as equall LOL.).

Sliding sidereins work great - and again I have some pictured - but on a pony not used to wearing them and not in a fully adjusted scenario allowing for contact. sliding side reins BUT that is how you would start teaching the pony to begin with. I used to cheat before I started working with driving ponies - the ponies that my children were riding - when I wanted them to learn to drive up under themselves with hind hooves and quarters - I used a lead rope behind their haunches just like a slightly loosened breeching. On one arab mare - to teach her to round her neck (& back, too) w/o pulling on her mouth, I fashioned a chambon that went over her pole and had a browband than was attached to basically a tie down or a standing martingale between the front legs... All it was was a reminder not to raise the head up too high - it was not tightened to wear it forced them to keep their heads down. As she learned to round up her back and lower her head and neck, the "tie down" section became very loose and floppy... Had no affect on the bit or her mouth and worked much better for her than side reins or balancing reins. Later, I could put a bridle on her and run the reins from her girth between her legs thru the bit to the girth or rings on the saddle - just long enuf for a reminder and a warm-up before mounting and taking off for trail rides... Here she is still moving very hollow backed (very easy for her to fake collection!) Cricket

Then, even if you don't do the clicker part, Leia's writing is much more eloquent than mine... He needs to learn that he can non-fearfully pick up and hold a trot and that his mouth isn't going to be grabbed. Then learn to come back to a walk and halt. Transitions, transitions, transitions. While learning to do the transitions, before actually attaching driving lines, you can also allow him to learn to carry one side rein or balancing rein at a time... Prevously, I had ponies/horses that I would just let trot until they proved to themselves how to calm down (lazier, more laid back sorts). I now have a filly that that doesn't work on - the longer I let her trot w/o transitions - the more upset and scared she becomes even w/o driving lines attached... She works better with constant changes of direction, lots of walk & whoa in between just one stride of trot... I may end up going all the way with clicker training with her - I really, really like what Leia has described and think that may be the best route for dealing with her scaring herself!