UPDATE: page 2 - Is this anything to be concerned with? (video)

[Mona]

I was checking Abby's teeth today to see what she had for tartar build-up. It is not something I routinely do, so have no idea how long this has been there, but I found this "growth" for lack of a better word. Is it something to be concerned with?? It was very hard for me to open her mouth, hold the camera to video and to manipulate/move the thing to try to show what it was like. I have no problem with going to the vet, but we live 80 miles away, and since it is the holidays, just wondering if it is something I should be really concerned with right now, or if it can wait until after the holidays. Have any of you seen this type of thing before?? If so, WHAT is it??

 

[chandab]

I honestly don't know and don't want to alarm you, but I did a google search for canine mouth tumors, got several hits including this vet site: http://www.mypetsdentist.com/site/view/113837_OralTumors.pml

While I don't know if you should be alarmed, if your vet is open on Tuesday (many places are closed at least Monday for Christams), I'd probably take her in.

Here's a site that mentions something other than cancerous tumors: http://www.avds-online.org/info/oraltumors.html

I hope it is nothing serious.

 

[disneyhorse]

It does look like something that may need to be removed but it doesn't look like an emergency.

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

Most of these are benign fibromas caused by gingivitis.

But, there are also melanomas (not all are black) and carcinomas and you can't tell the difference by looking at them. You should have a reasonable level of concern, but not panic. Get through the Holidays and then go to the Vet. Even benign ones should be removed as they harbor even more bacteria.

Dr Taylor

 

[Mona]

Thank you all for the reading material and comments. Yes, I am definitely going to get her to a vet after the holidays!

Dr. Taylor, I thought gingivitis was the result of teeth/mouths/gums in poor condition? Abby's teeth (I th thought) are in pretty good shape, and hardly any tartar or anything. She has never had them professionally cleaned, as it's not been needed yet, and she is not quite 4 years old yet.

Also, am I better off taking her to a vet more familiar with surgeries or just to my regular "small town vet" with less experience? I mean he has MANY years experience with treating small animals, I mean should I take her to him, or to someone more specialized with doing surgeries?? I am now worried that if it is malignant, that he may not get all of it and cut into it and make it sopread? Yes, I am worrying now.

 

[Hosscrazy]

Hey Mona -

Not sure what your relationship is like with your vet, but can you email the link to the video to them? I've sent photos to my vet / equine hospital for a quick opinion prior to hauling (horse) all the way out there.

Take care,

Liz N.

 

[Sonya]

I hope it's nothing but I'm sure it can wait til after the holidays. I use to have my dogs teeth cleaned yearly until I met someone whose 4 year old dog died during a cleaning (was not my vet) and I know it was just a freak thing but now I am afraid to have my dogs put under for something like that...this shows me I need to be checking their mouths since I haven't taken them for cleanings in a couple years. My vet does look at their teeth when I take them in for exam but it's so quick I wonder if he would see something like that....hope it's nothing, keep us posted. Abbey is very cooperative.

 

[Mona]

Thanks again to all. Since reading the replies earlier today, and the links provided, they have taken me to other articlaes that I found to be very helpful, or at least finding them has made me worry less now, and I can relax until after she is seen. I sent the video link to the animal hospital that did the surgery on Monkey's knees, as I found they were VERY good! That being said though, that vet specializes more in leg and hip type surgeries, so not sure if this is something that may be of interest to him or not. He was recommended by my vet, to do the surgery on Monkey's knees. So, I hope to hear back from him if not tomorrow, maybe after the holidays some time.

Yes Sonya, Abby was actually very cooperative for me to get into her mouth. I was thinking it was going to be a tougher job trying to get it than it was. Although it wasn't great, she did sit pretty nicely for all my one handed poking and prodding. LOL!

This is what I am thinking it most likely is, since it does look similar, and this is a VERY common thing in the Boxer breed! It is likely what Dr. Taylor was referring to. It is called "Gingival Hyperplasia". Here is a link to a very good article on it. http://www.toothvet....hyperplasia.pdf

Once again, this forum has proven to be an awesome source of help and information! I would never substitute it for veterinary care, but it is nice to try to learn a little before having to rush to the vet over everything. So THANKS! MERRY CHRISTMAS to all!

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

This is not a complicated problem, I think your 'regular' Vet would handle it just fine. I would encourage the biopsy, but it is probably just hyperplasia.

It doesn't take awful teeth to lead to hyperplasia, but gingivitis is part of the root cause.

Dr Taylor

 

[shorthorsemom]

Hi, chiming in here to recommend a great product I got from my vets office for dental health that helps to combat gingivitis.. It is called Perio support and it works terrific. I have been using this product for several months. What I noticed is a huge difference in the tartar build up on all my dogs after a few months, and the gums are pink and healthy looking now. My dogs have no stinky breath and the gingivitis is gone.

I have several small dogs that are too old to be knocked out by my vet for their dental cleanings and they were starting to have dental issues even though I was brushing, they were still having problems developing. The gums were developing gingivitis and looking sore. A few months on this product and the teeth are cleaning up beautifully and the other day when I did some hand scaling myself during grooming I noticed no bleeding and the tartar was very easy to clean off the teeth. We practically have totally white teeth on my 12 year old chinese crested ! I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself.

Took a few months of using the product, but it really works as advertised...

I highly recommend this product. My vet can't keep it on the shelf. People that try it, always come back for more.

Best wishes that all is benign on your dog. Thanks for sharing the video, very educational and thanks Dr Taylor for the education, you give so much valuable information in your postings

http://www.amazon.com/Perio-Support-Dogs-Cats-Powder-4-2/dp/B0012X88I0/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

 

[Reble]

Perio support it looks like powder, how is it used, can you sprinkle it on dry food or ?

thanks just ordered a bottle from this site.. thanks will give it a try.

http://www.pethealthmarket.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=16434

 

[shorthorsemom]

It is a powder. I sprinkle it on the dogs food. I have had people on the forum say that you can rub it on the gums directly, but I have not done that yet. I feed the food dry, but if you wet the food, I would sprinkle the powder on last so it gets on their teeth when they eat. I will say that the powder goes fast in my house with 6 dogs on it so I buy it two or three at a time. Biggest thing I noticed yesterday when I was grooming my guys is that the sensitivity on my dogs gums was so much less and the breath was so much better and those pearly white canines showing.

Top back molars, harder to see results on by putting product on the food..., so I think I am going to start applying directly to those and see if I can help the cleaning process. I will post again if I see results.. I was able to do a bit of hand scaling on those top back molars though and the majority came off with very little effort and no fussing by my dog, which in itself is rather unusual which is why I am posting that the gums are much less sensitive on this product...

I also think it is a great product to maintain dental health following a scaling by your vet, rather than to replace the professional scaling. Poor dental health can be a real killer in dogs left unattended and can lead to heart issues so in the past I have gotten professional dentals when I feel they need it, but I since using this product I can see its usefullness in maintaining clean teeth following a dental as well. The tartar is definitely not rock hard when using this and do not expect immediate results. Just a gradual slow cleaning process over the course of usage daily for a few months. Hope this helps. PS, the link I posted is just for information, you can buy this product in many places.

 

[Mona]

Just wanted to post a bit of a follow-up on Abby's "mouth condition". I sent the video of her mouth and an article (http://www.toothvet....hyperplasia.pdf) on the Gingival Hyperplasia to the vet I mentioned in an earlier post. After reviewing it, he too thought it was Gingival Hyperplasia, so I set up an appointment to bring her to him to have the removal done. I took her in for this surgery on December 28th. I did ask that he send away to have it analyzed, and as far as how much to remove, I told them I thought that since she was going to be "out" and having it done anyway, that they should remove it all, but to tell the vet to use his best judgment. He also removed her two bottom, front, center teeth.

He did (what I thought looked like) an excellent job of it in removing the bumps, and he also wanted to send some of the tissue away as he said some did look "questionable". I got a call back on Thursday, although I didn;t know until yesterday since he had called and left a message on my cell phone, which I rarely use. Anyway, the news is all GOOD! It was benign, and now we just need to try to avoid future plaque build-up. I am surprised, since I thought he teeth looked pretty good as far as tartar build-up was concerned.

Here are the before/after pics. Sorry, I did not take actual photos before, just took a screen capture from the video I did so have that to post here.

I thought the doctor did a super job, useing the method from the article I sent to him and therefore no stitches! YAHOO! Abby recovered well, and was eating her supper the day of the surgery. There was very slight bleeding as the method used cauterized the blood vessels.

BEFORE:

AFTER:

I would also like to personally thank you Dr. Taylor for your willingness to be so helpful on these forums!

Whether it relates to large or small animals, you always seem to chime in with your thoughts, opinions and suggestions, and you have no idea how helpful that can be, especially to those of us that are such a distance away from our vets, so again, THANK YOU!

I have gone ahead and placed my order for that Perrio-Support powder to start my dogs on. It says you are supposed to sprinkle a teaspoon onto their food at each meal...is that what you do Shorthorsemom?? I have 3 dogs to feed, and each gets fed twice a day. So I would need to use 6 teaspoons in all, each day.

At that rate, a bottle sure won't last long! Also, one is a Bixer, the other 2 are in the 7-10 pound range...so they require the same amount as the Boxer?

 

[Reble]

We also find that getting smoked bones from our butcher, really helps keep the plaque down with our big doggies.

Tabitha our big dog had lots of tarter and after having a big bone for a week what a difference all nice and white again..

Been told never cooked bones they splinter, but raw are fine..

I also have ordered Perrio-Support powder for my smaller doggies, they do not know

what to do with the big bones.. but boy the large doggies just love them.

Here is what we get from the butcher for only $2.00 each..

 

[chandab]

We also find that getting smoked bones from our butcher, really helps keep the plaque down with our big doggies.

Tabitha our big dog had lots of tarter and after having a big bone for a week what a difference all nice and white again..

Been told never cooked bones they splinter, but raw are fine..

I also have ordered Perrio-Support powder for my smaller doggies, they do not know

what to do with the big bones.. but boy the large doggies just love them.

Here is what we get from the butcher for only $2.00 each..

View attachment 5624

Our dogs help themselves to bones like that... We raise cattle, so have a "bone pile", and the dogs are always finding treasures and dragging them back to the house. No wonder they both have white teeth, they have nature's toothbrush at their disposal.

He did (what I thought looked like) an excellent job of it in removing the bumps, and he also wanted to send some of the tissue away as he said some did look "questionable". I got a call back on Thursday, although I didn;t know until yesterday since he had called and left a message on my cell phone, which I rarely use. Anyway, the news is all GOOD! It was benign, and now we just need to try to avoid future plaque build-up. I am surprised, since I thought he teeth looked pretty good as far as tartar build-up was concerned.

Glad to hear it all came out ok and she's going to be fine.

 

[Sterling]

Mona that is wonderful news and Abby looks wonderful now! I know how unsettling things of the unknown factor can be. So glad she is doing well.

 

[Mona]

Mary Lou, I just ordered mine today from www.pethealthmarket.com . I ordered 6 and I got free shipping to my US PO Box.

I just wanted to comment on Abby's teeth prior to the surgery. As was seen in the video I originally posted, she did not have a lot of tartar build-up, but Boxers are prone to this, so maybe are more sensitive to plaque? Her teeth were actually pretty white, with the exception of the canines which did have a small amount of tartar build-up. I do buy my dogs raw/smoked bones to chew on...even the little guys LOVE them! I also don't feed a lot of soft snacks...most are the hard type when they get them, and I also give them DentaStix sometimes too, but only as a "special treat" every couple/few weeks after I cut their nails. They really don't get a lot of "junk".

 

[Marty]

I'm so glad there is a happy ending here. Now I'm going to be paranoid and be checking my dog's mouth on a regular basis. This ordeal has made me step it up a notch and learn. Get well soon Abby!