Was 911 a Conspiracy???

[Jill]

I just keep thinking about this thread, and what started it.

I live very near DC and work even closer. Nearly the entire staff of an investment company we used to work with was killed on 9/11. People we talked with on a regular basis (Fred Alger Management).

It sickens me to think of how these ridiculous conspiracy theory rumors must hurt the families.

In my opinion, these kinds of rumors trivialize the reality of what happened and the lives it ruined.

What happened, honest to God, is shocking and horrible enough. There's no need to try and make it even more stunning. It is still like a slap in the face anytime I reflect on what happened that day.

 

[Sonya]

It sickens me to think of how these ridiculous conspiracy theory rumors must hurt the families.
In my opinion, these kinds of rumors trivialize the reality of what happened and the lives it ruined.

You are so right Jill.

 

[Minimor]

I do not believe in the conspiracy theory either, not in regard to 9/11

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

I watched a very interesting show on Discovery the other day that was explaining why the Pentigon had really odd damage from the plane crash. Apparently it was in the middle of a retrofit to defend against exterior bombs, with explosion resistant windows (that didn't shatter in the crash) all the way to new fireproofing and interior walls. Offices next door to the main site were undamaged and still perfectly servicable. Offices in the "old" unretrofitted section were completely destroyed. That may be why the penetration "wound" on the exterior wall was as small as it was, the plane hit directly into a new section of the building, right next to an older section.

I do not believe the conspiracy theories, none of them make much sense.

 

[joylee123]

Speaking of the Administration before. Guess people forget, but the lewinski thing was going on then. Clinton tried to get Congress to see that Al Queda was a problem, BUT, they stated ( and its in print guys, go research) that Al Queda was not a problem and Clinton was trying to 'wag the dog' to get the eyes off of his lie about Lewinski.Pre-9/11 Bush stated, and again its in print if anyone would actually research something their party DID, that Al Queda was not a credible threat. Barring that, if he did think they were a threat, why not worry about them and not how to spend the budget surplus? Why dont people connect the dots and recall things as they happened and not as they think they did?

 

[Carriage]

Actually, I have never seen ANY of the conspiracy videos talked about on this thread. Don't want to see them either. My personal and achived files on that horrible day are VERY extensive all by themselves right down to the MULTIPLE changes of story line utilized.

Rather I take what the govt. has said and then apply scientific principals to the story to see if it could be true. In the cases specifically mentioned there was no counter-fact offered by the "Osama did it" folk.

What was picked up was the one thing I spoke the least of. The trade center collapses

To answer the only real question asked about who these credible eye-witness' were, I have a piece of video where surviving firefighters are describing (in their fire-house) precisely what they saw and heard in the building just prior to collapse. There were many other witnesses to these events but we can just stick with them for now.

Odd that the one piece about Silversteins comment on CNN was left untouched..........

Please remember that the building where the plane did NOT hit the center structure but went through a corner of the building and exploded the greater mass of its fuel outside the building, was the building to come down first...... The support colume of this building still had its thermal coating intact. So heat couldn't have been the culprit there. And why oh why did building 7 "collapse"? (Thats where Silverstein screwed up and stated "We decided to PULL it")

Did you know that the one of the chief design features of the buildings WAS the consideration of having a large commercial (707) airliner run into them and having the building survive??

How hot does JP8 burn?

Under what conditions does JP8 burn hottest?

What temp is needed to make steel puddles?

How do explain the large molten puddles of steel that were in place (and molten) for weeks after the collapse? As a steel guy myself, I know the answers to the above.

Also odd (but typical at the same time) was that pretty well every other point of fact I addressed was left unaddressed by those in disagreement.

An attempt was made to counter what I said specific to the pentegon, but really it was no counter at all as it left unaddressed specific points of fact that I had made.

The hole is too small.

The wound channel through the rings is inconsistant with that plane.

The amount of engines recovered is inconsistant with that plane

The initial smoke plume was inconsistant to that plane and fuel load

There were no pieces of the plane on the lawn. A hardened facade would only make more debris on the lawn, not less

And as usuall nobody wants to address the cell phone "calls". I think the biggest red light for me specific to cell phone calls was when "Mark Young" called his mom and told his mom that it was Mark Young calling......

I'm pretty sure ifn I was in the same situation I wouldn't need to tell my mom my first much less last name even with the unbelievably high level of stress such a person would be going through.

Please understand I specifically point the finger at nobody as to who dun it. I'm more interested in whether the story is even physically possible. I purposely stay away from speaking about the buildings due to variables. However my instict in light of known evidence and my back-ground causes me to think that they were imploded. This was after I tried to deny the laws of history and physics in order to square with the govt's. line de jour. In the end I couldn't drink the Kool-aid and went back to my physics based hypoth. Understand that my mind is not closed to new information but you will have literally hundreds of science based questions to answer in order to sway me...

Now on to more productive things, Hope ya'll are having a SUPER day,

Bb

 

[Cathy_H]

And just where is Osama Bin Laden, anyway

........................ Didn't you know President Bush is hiding him at his ranch??

I actually had an almost 80 year old man tell me that Osama Bin Laden has been a visitor of president Bush several times.

I think he honestly believes this!

 

[tagalong]

Carriage, it does not matter what we choose to address or not address. You "KNOW" that there was a conspiracy - and even National Geographic or Discovery specials on the physics involved and how it happened would not dissuade you as you would just say all of that was a lie or a cover-up.

Building 7? Structurally weakened by the impact of two huge structures coming down next to it. Collapses? Unfortunately such things are not determined by carefully calculated timetables of how you think they should work - but by chance and random circumstances that do not follow any set schedules.

The 9/11 conspiracy theories have never developed beyond a few OTT websites and assorted video "truths" on You Tube that never seem to show the "evidence" the conspiracy theorists claim is there. It seems that you need to wear secret decoder glasses to be able to see a lot of that evidence in the way they want you to see it.

Beyond all that.... do you seriously think that any government that plotted to kill thousands of Americans as a way to... *picks just one reason out of the 9/11 conspiracy catalog* ... justify invading Iraq would have not been ratted out by now? A heinous criminal action of that magnitude would not be able to stay under wraps... and leaks would start to appear. And things would start to unravel. And it would not start with You Tubes and endlessly zapruderiing videos to see only what you want to see.... and conspiracy theorists assuring the rest of us that we are all fools.

snopes.com also addresses some of the favourite conspiracy issues.... that page is for the Pentagon but there are many others...

I actually had an almost 80 year old man tell me that Osama Bin Laden has been a visitor of president Bush several times. I think he honestly believes this!

Heee! Cathy - if that friend of yours believes that - then I guess we do know where he is after all....

 

[Carriage]

I'm sure you are right tag,

Best wishes

Bb