We are all just doomed..... Obamacare

[HGFarm]

Many other countries that have health care provided are horribly lacking in many things. My sister lives overseas- they have NO well woman checks, no preventative medicine or exams for anything at all. It's up to you to request it and force the issue to get it- so most of it goes ignored. They figure if you are not sick what are you getting checked for?

 

[Jill]

Tab, I completely understand how you feel. I had something very scary too a few years ago, and I know first hand how great our system here works and the quality of our doctor's and facilities. It was less than one month between the time i found out I had a "leision" in my lung until I had the surgery to remove it (cancer) and most of my left lung from my body. In that space of time, I saw many specialists and had lots of high end diagnostics and an outpatient biopsy surgery. I don't think I'd have had that fast a treatment and cure anywhere but the USA.

Additionally, after this was behind me, I asked my regular doctor, my surgeon and my pulmonologist "what" woud have happened to me if I did not have insurance. It was interesting to me especially because Obamacare was just becoming the hot topic. All of them told me the same thing -- I'd have had all the same tests and the treatment. Some services would have been donated, but I'd have left with some BIG medical bills.

Well, call me crazy if you want but I'd rather be alive and broke than dead with some money in the bank.

 

[ohmt]

Tab-Obamacare actually increases the number of people under private insurance. And Obamacare isn't called Canadacare. I am glad you are now healthy

HGFarm-of course you did. In there they talk about another poll that was done and no, the results were not the same.

Alright, I'm done. It's girls night so I'm off for more exciting things (like wine lol). Take care to all!

 

[Jill]

Another thing, too, is people often complain about the cost of healthcare here vs. other places -- including places I sure wouldn't want to be treated, like third world countries. Yes heathcare is expensive. Yes, we should make some changes (how about torte reform and allowing insurance to be sold across state lines as starters???). However, a socialized, big government take over of a huge sector of our economy and something vital to all of us and our families is the wrong answer. It's also going to further stifle the economy and cost real people real their jobs.

 

[Sue_C.]

I have a little to add to this. I had a 10-pound dermoid removed and was found to have cancer of the ovary and fallopian tube. In researching I came across a woman from CANADA whose doctor would not remove a grapefruit-sized dermoid on her ovary because under Canada's healthcare it was considered an elective surgery. Don't tell me universal healthcare is so good! I am thankful to have had this sorted out before this disaster of a bill was passed. I'm also thankful for good private insurance and great doctors here in the USA! I agree with Jill, I pray a new president and the repeal of obamacare!

That Doctor was a butt-head, so they are all incompetent fools here? Come on guys...give me a break. We get cancer here too, and other nasties, and somehow MANAGE...LOLOLOLOLOLOL! I would laugh harder if it wasn't so ridiculous.

 

[Jill]

Check into the mortality rates...

 

[ozymandias]

I came from another progressive, developed, educated country (the U.K.) and I'm telling you from FIRST HAND experience....there is NO comparison between health care there and health care here. In fact it's so different I'd go as far as calling the U.Ks nationalized healthcare system stone age compared to here in the USA. I've also had relatives die there over issues that we would have caught on a routine yearly check up.

I have relatives there astounded at the treatment we get just during our yearly check ups...routine stuff they never get access to.

I'm talking from the unique situation of knowing BOTH systems first hand...I'm sorry...there IS no comparison. Give me my $1800 a month coverage anyday lol.

 

[tagalong]

It's also going to further stifle the economy and cost real people real their jobs.

Not actual known facts, just speculation - as is outlined in many non-partisan places and many of the links many of us have provided.

As far as Snopes being pro-Obama - I had to smile at that. How so? Link please? Because they debunk a lot of the nonsense that has been said about him? They have also debunked nonsense about GWB, Sarah Palin etc. etc. etc. They are not PRO anyone. The only thing they are PRO - is facts. No matter who or what they are about.

I would laugh harder if it wasn't so ridiculous.

It is more sad than ridiculous. Bad doctors, long waits and procedures not granted happen HERE as well - but some manage to overlook that. It is the Ostrich Syndrome = stick your head in the sand and pretend it does not happen - and voila!!! - it will be so.

So the premier of Newfoundland came south to the US for some heart specialist. Big deal. People who have the money can go all over North America to whatever specialist they choose. I know Canadians who have gone south to the States. I know Americans who have gone north to Canada. If you have the money, you can shop around as you please. Most of us do not have that luxury.

I have lived under both "systems" or lack thereof. I know many refuse to accept the first hand experiences and opinions of others - but seeing as my nest egg is GONE here due to health care bills and an unscheduled hospital stay.... I think my experiences should count more than second or third hand accounts. I have insurance. I simply could not pay enough of it to keep me out of that black hole - and most of you would be in the same boat. I hope that reality never rears up and smacks some of you down before you see that the "system" here is not perfect. And meanwhile, friends and family in Canada benefit from paying into healthcare (no, it is not FREE) and have had procedures and surgery scheduled and performed without delay, by top notch doctors and with no additional out of pocket cost. Even though it is often suggested here that when it comes to medicine, Canada is close to a third world country. The system there is not perfect either and its demise has been predicted for decades - and yet it is still working.

And again we must consider the congressman who asserted that people on the UK and Canada must wait for over a year for a hip replacement (strange - my mom had hers within 2 months) - and when asked how long it took here, he maintained that it was easy - you could practically just walk into an ER for one. Talk about clueless and disconnected...

I will dig up a link for that - I cannot remember the guy's name at the moment.

Obamacare is far from perfect and needs a lot of work, tweaking etc. A lot of it will not even come into effect until 2014. But at least it is a start...

​ Give me my $1800 a month coverage anyday lol.

Well, not all of us can come close to affording $1800 a month payments...

I have relatives there astounded at the treatment we get just during our yearly check ups...routine stuff they never get access to.

Let's see - my friend up in Alberta was just telling me about her yearly checkup she had this week. It involved a mammogram, pelvic exam, pap smear, intense physical, cardio stress test, bloodwork, bone density scan and a lot of other things that I have already forgotten. Her routine stuff sounded very involved indeed - I wish I could do all that here! And I will have to at some point

- but only after I finish paying off these medical bills... and no, insurance will not cover all the costs of that kind of exam or all those tests. I checked. Maybe it would if I could afford $1800 a month...

 

[ozymandias]

Tag, there are buses that go from the Pacific NW on a weekly basis to Canada so folks (usually older people) can get access to medications there that they couldn't purchase here because of the cost.

Our system here isn't perfect by a long shot. There are areas of our healthcare system that need fixing but this all or nothing, one party against the other makes me sick. How are we ever going to improve things while there this kindergarten attitude going back and forth between the parties. I wish we had some other political party options (that don't get washed away with the bath water) that if nothing else reign in the spoiled brat attitudes of the two we have.

 

[ozymandias]

Well, not all of us can come close to affording $1800 a month payments...

I 100% agree with you...that's why I'm a lifelong republican not ruling out Obamacare. We're very fortunate that not only can we afford that - it doesn't make us blink twice...I have friends who go weeks with a toothache because they cant afford to get help. We can't have a healthcare system that's only affordable for the well off. It's not easy for families to have to decide between feeding a child or paying their premiums. We all know what the choice is they have to make. Our healthcare costs here are astronomical....something needs to be done, I think that's what Obama is trying to do.

 

[tagalong]

I wish we had some other political party options (that don't get washed away with the bath water) that if nothing else reign in the spoiled brat attitudes of the two we have.

AMEN.

 

[ozymandias]

Let's see - my friend up in Alberta was just telling me about her yearly checkup she had this week. It involved a mammogram, pelvic exam, pap smear, intense physical, cardio stress test, bloodwork, bone density scan and a lot of other things that I have already forgotten. Her routine stuff sounded very involved indeed - I wish I could do all that here! And I will have to at some point

- but only after I finish paying off these medical bills... and no, insurance will not cover all the costs of that kind of exam or all those tests. I checked. Maybe it would if I could afford $1800 a month...

I hope you read that I was talking about the U.K. and not Canada. Looks like Canada may have some answers we should look at

 

[Sonya]

$1800/month.....if I am forced into Obamacare, I will be paying even more than that...and my income is middleclass.

 

[Sue_C.]

http://www.healthcare-now.org/u-s-ranks-last-among-high-income-nations-on-preventable-deaths

Not as current...http://www.allcountries.org/ranks/preventable_deaths_country_ranks_1997-1998_2002-2003_2008.html

http://www.photius.com/rankings/world_health_performance_ranks.html

 

[Jill]

I hear you, Sonya... and the quality of care is worth more than money anyway. I see nothing good coming of Obamacare if it is not repealed under our next President.

And, you surely do not need a crystal ball to know it will cost jobs. I know it, and all the other business owners I've talked to about it know it, too. That's one thing about meeting a payroll and being responsible for your own standard of living -- you don't have a lot of trouble reading the writing on the wall. You can see the bottom line regardless of the spin from those who have never met a payroll, never worked in the private sector, do not understand the American Dream... or even respect it. (Obama, anyone?)

 

[ozymandias]

http://www.healthcar...ventable-deaths

Not as current...http://www.allcountr...-2003_2008.html

http://www.photius.c...ance_ranks.html

Pretty sad figures Sue...almost as bad as our math and science rankings

There has to be an answer better than the existing system where people get desperately sick because they have no health coverage and put off simple fixes until they have massive problems.

There seems to be a number of people in this country who, in their personal pursuit of the almighty dollar, have lost their humanity and caring for those not quite as fortunate

 

[Jill]

You know, also, over the years, I have seen fellow LB -- horse owning -- members claim they cannot afford health insurance. And they're celebrating Obamacare. I have to say, it's sweetly ironic that those who can afford horses and "can't afford" health insurance will be mandated to learn about budgeting and prioritizing as they will either have to purchase insurance or pay the tax penalty that will be imposed. Much as I love them, I know of nothing less truly necessary than a herd of little horses.

Personally, I don't know anyone who is unwilling to see those who cannot help themselves receive help. And despite popular myth, Republicans are far more charitable (with their OWN money) than Democrats. It's just hard to feel a burning desire to sacrifice what you work hard so hard for to help those who choose not to help themselves. That's a feeling many people hold, myself included.

 

[tagalong]

Hmmmmm.

Speaking just for myself even though the comment was a more general one, I do not own a herd of little ones. I do not even own ONE little one. I own an aged pasture puff Icelandic horse who is an airfern for most of the year and gets his regular trims and shots and worming etc. And I cannot afford $1800 a month and rather resent it being suggested that I should be able to do so easily.

That does NOT mean that I "choose not to help myself". Wow. I work hard, thanks. Very hard. The first thing I did when I moved here was find health insurance - and that was VERY hard as at the time very few companies offered single policies. But I guess I chose to help myself and scrambled to make sure I had some kind of insurance. And pay the most I can.

There are many people out there complaining about Healthcare reform who are just one accident or one illness or one prolonged hospital stay away from financial disaster. It can happen to you. It happened to me - and mine did not involve major surgery of any kind.

I just wish that people would stick to the facts about this topic - and not wallow in the myths that are spread as part of the lame political games that are always going on. Posters have supplied many links to show the actual statements and the actual figures - and yet we just hear the same myths that are not "known" and yet are presented as if they were verified and absolute. Leave those games to the politicians wrapped in their extensive and comfortable healthcare packages and out of touch with many of us Out Here.

The ironic thing is that if he is elected, Romney is going to have some kind of Romneycare going on at some point - he has already outlined healthcare changes he will make that are already in Obamacare. No fretting about that? Where is the angst? The worry? The condemnation? The hyperventilating? Will all those upset about Obamacare and buying into every viral email or lame fear-mongering video be upset about that? I doubt it. It will still be the dreaded healthcare reform some insist is despicable and un-American and so on and so forth... but it will suddenly be wonderful and needed and awesome ...

 

[MountainWoman]

And despite popular myth, Republicans are far more charitable (with their OWN money) than Democrats.

Oh, I'm trying to be good but I can't let this one pass. Maybe there are certain democrats who have oodles of money who don't donate as much as the republicans who have oodles of money but there are many of us out there republicans AND democrats who do our best to give to those in need generously. Many, many of us tithe to our churches and go out of our way to help organizations with our money and time so I really don't think it's a party perogative to say one party is more generous than the other. I most respect people who do charity anonymously and don't go out of the way to draw attention to their generosity.

I had fantastic health care insurance, came down with a serious MRSA infection that ran up quite a few bills and then I was dumped by my insurance company and no insurance company would have me no matter the amount I could pay. I had to go without insurance for a few years until someone decided to take the risk and insure me again but every time I go to the doctor and file a claim, I get denied because supposedly it has something to do with my "pre-existing condition."

There is a real need for reform and change in the way we deliver healthcare. Those who can't pay for insurance are often deciding whether to pay the rent, eat food or provide other necessities of life. There is such a myth surrounding poverty and those who are struggling and they are often depicted as people who don't want to help themselves.

Sorry, but I believe if we have the money we waste on so many things in this country surely we can afford to put people first.

 

[tagalong]

I most respect people who do charity anonymously and don't go out of the way to draw attention to their generosity.

Ditto. It seems it must always come down to "sides" and how one is better than the other... when charity and giving is an individual thing and not dependent on being Right or Left or what political party you have aligned yourself with. I know cheap conservatives and miserly liberals - and also generous and charitable ones.

Sorry, but I believe if we have the money we waste on so many things in this country surely we can afford to put people first.

Well said, MountainWoman.

I hope you read that I was talking about the U.K. and not Canada. Looks like Canada may have some answers we should look at

Well, it may be more of a provincial thing than a national thing, ozy.

All I know is that was what was included in her yearly physical - amd I have not done most of those things because they are not covered by insurance and things are very tight right now. I have to be very careful and do that budgeting and prioritizing stuff that I am supposedly unaware of and/or bad at. I guess I am choosing not to help myself, right? How very irresponsible of me.