weaning and other stuff

[StellaLenoir]

Ok, the time has come to wean my little man.

Chocolate Thunder is doing great and growing and is a super fuzz ball.

His mama Rainbow, is shall we say..........a bit out of shape.

She is not underweight so much as she needs muscle. The vet was out yesterday and I asked him to really look at her back. (she is the mare with the possible roach back) Anyway, he said no roach back in his opinion. She needs muscle mass. She IS a lazy mare, and he thinks with some light work outs she will improve. I have already been uping her feed more and more, and we have been going on walks. I have seen an improvement already in her back.

So, I have a very horse smart freind who will take Rainbow to her place and train her to give light rides ( small small kids only!!!!) so we can more easily go on walks. We may also train to drive, but no cart in the near future so we are going to ride first.

This will coincide with the weaning. How can I make this whole thing easier on both mom and foal? When we go on our walks it is only Rainbow, no baby. He does run and kind of get upset, but nothing major. I have also been just taking Chocolate THunder, the baby, out by himself. Rainbow, did get upset and actully ran

around. But this also could be because he was in the grass and she wasnt.

I plan on continueing to seperate for longer and longer periods before the actual removal of Rainbow. She will be gone for about a month.

The other problem is Silver, she is the mare with poo poo issues.

She has been a professional pooer for weeks now.

Beautiful apples each and every time.

I had planned on bragging to the vet about her fecal mastery. But befor the vet came I took Rainbow and Chocolate thunder out in the back yard and not her. They got baths and brushing. Silver got so upset she gave herself loose poo!!!!! It went from perfect to slightly loose to a mushy spray! (which the vet had the good luck to witness)

Silver did firm up and is back to great apples now that everyone is back together.

So how do I make life ok for Silver too, while Rainbow is off training? Silver will be home with Chocolate Thunder.

Also, I want to also send Silver there when Rainbow comes back. SO the grand plan is to train both for riding. But I think Silver will go crazy with worry. She is as I suspected a worry wort who gets loose from worry.

so all you wise wonderful people give me some ideas and advice!!!!! thanks

 

[Marty]

I don't wean gradually like that. When I separate, I keep them separated but in side by side stalls and for turn outs, where they can always be in view of each other. I don't personally like the idea of starting and stopping the milk like that, I think it also confuses both mother and foal, however people do it both ways successfully so whatever suits you, just my humble opinion.

My main concerns are getting the milk to dry up and watching for ulcers for mother and baby.

Grain makes milk produce so when I wean, I withhold all grains no matter how much mother begs and I think that's harder on me than mother. I only feed grass and hay during the weaning process and I give it a full month before I put the mother back on any grain.

Before I would send Rainbow away, I would make sure she and the baby are fine and completely weaned at home first, so that you don't end up with them both being upset and end up in trouble. Rainbow will also feel physically uncomfortable. Drying the milk up can't feel good. Rainbow also will be in no shape mentally to be in training mode because her body will be going through all kinds of hormone changes and her mind is not going to be focused on being trained. I think the timing is off on this plan. Too many changes going on at once. I'd slow the whole thing down and wait on sending her off to your friend, and completely wean at home and then give it extra time after that.

And as usual, I'm probably wrong but that's what I would do if I were in your shorts.

 

[StellaLenoir]

that does make sense Marty!

I have been going over it in my mind like crazy. I have not really started any weaning yet. So no milk interuption as of now. I had planned on letting them self wean, i thought Rainbow would kick him off because she does not pay a lot of attention to the foal. I was very VERY surprised when she reacted at all to him being in the back yard without her.

I thought ( and still do somewhat) the bond is more between Chocolate THunder and Silver, they hang out ALL the time.

The vet seemed to think it would be a good idea it seperate soon, but I also see and agree it may not be good timing. I do not have a good set up to wean for a month apart here, so I thought it was good for that reason too.

I will have to still think about it. It would not be for a few weeks if we did send Rainbow off. I do not want to make Rainbow or Chocolate Thunder ill or overly upset.

Keep the opinions, ideas and advice coming it helps me so much! I like to have as much info as I can before making decisions. Thanks!!!

 

[Mnmini]

Think there have been studies that suggest the least amount of stress on both mother and baby is through the gradual method, with second being separate, but can see each other, as in side-by-side stalls. If you can do the latter safely, it can be ideal. Expect the mare to take in excess of a month to dry up.

I know my mares appear "dry" and no bag within a month's time, but if baby is turned back in with them, and resumes "nursing" they can, and often do bring the mare back into production.

I've used "cold turkey" for years, and with my mares and babies it has worked very well, with little stress to either. Baby or mother leaves to another farm, so there is no possibility of "calling" and getting an answer. Then again, my mare usually just says "see ya" when the baby leaves at weaning. Never calls, or appears to give them another thought...such a callous little mare, ha.

I generally wait until 6 month old though, so that the foal is old enough to get the full range of injections, and then give 10 days to 2 weeks to ramp up the titer levels before weaning.

 

[Alex]

I totally agree with Marty ( again

)

They should see each other, but the baby shouldnt be nursing onn and off like that.

 

[eagles ring farm]

We also do the side by side in the stall weaning where they can see each other but not nurse and the mare in the next field where they can visit at the gate for maybe a week depending on how well they are doing then we replace mom with another mare they have been friendly with in the stall and move mom to another stall out of range or to our other barn if mom would do any calling then turn mom out in our round pen only so baby does not see her also no grain for mom but we give mare and foal pro-bias during weaning just to protect the tummy from stress

that could work well for your mare with the poo poo issues to we have 1 mare that is on pro-bias once a day and it totally straightened out her bouts with the runs.

FYI - our vet says this method just drags out the weaning and she believes cold turkey is best

 

[Sue S]

I have a little filly who I started weaning at 4 months old, I kept her in a paddock with another little colt, her half brother, and put a fence between her and her mother, with the other little colt he kept her busy and not wanting to get to her mother, never had a problem at all, as long as she could see her mom she was ok, her stall is right next to her mom and we put a hole in the stall wall so she could see her mom, we also put a chicken wire over the hole and put wood around it so she couldn't get hurt by the wire. I think it hurt me more than it did them to seperate them. This is how I will do the new foals this summer.

 

[StellaLenoir]

but the baby shouldnt be nursing onn and off like that.

Just to clarify, there is no nursing on and off, he is still nursing on HIS demand, except for 1/2 an hour a few times a week when his mama goes on a walk with me.

SO the question is based more on should we go gradual, which I sort of think is natural.

OR

should we go cold turkey but he can see mama, which I think is a bit weird only because it seems like teasing....theres the milk bar....but you cant have it!

OR

should we go cold turkey with mama somewhere else being trained.

All these things are future plans, right now I have not started any weaning, just spending short periods apart for his lead training and grooming ect. I want him to be ok with us, with or without mama.

thanks!

Edit, thanks for the posts while I was posting. That makes the seperate but can still see you, not sound so bad.

 

[Mnmini]

Stella,

If it was me, and I knew I had that opportunity to have my mare out for training, I'd use that time to go cold turkey. It's like removing a bandage...rip, and done. Then when mare returns, unless it is has been a couple months or more, keep separate. The emotional as well as nursing bond is broken, and you won't have some of the separation anxiety you sometimes see on small farms with only a few horses...you know, where you can't take one out for a drive without worrying that "someone" might run through a fence to catch up to you, and the one working isn't able to concentrate for worrying about whomever they left behind..no ones happy.

 

[Joanne]

Hi Stella. I do not believe you have said how old your foal is that you want to wean.

We used to wean our foals at four months. Last year I read an article in The Horse magazine that discussed milk production in the mare and after that I thought that leaving them on longer made more sense. As the mares are still prducing a fair amount of milk at four months.

This year we have let the foals stay with the mares longer and have enjoyed the responses we are seeing. One foal that was born early at 315 days is still with his dam at six months. I will seperate them after the first of the year when she will be moved in with a stallion.

 

[StellaLenoir]

Sorry! My baby boy was born Aug 5. He is growing strong and eating real food very well. His mama, however seems to be getting pulled down. That is more the reason I want to wean.

If she was doing better, than he could go on till they decided it was time, within reason.

I have increased my mares food to almost crazy proportions, and will increase more if she needs it. But I think he would do fine off the ****.

thanks!

 

[Joanne]

You have good reason to be looking to wean then. We would give the mare a beet pulp mash and grain combo to keep up their weight. But some foals seem to suck their mares dry and bring them down.

 

[StellaLenoir]

yes, she is on beet pulp, mare and foal, oats, and born to win. She is holding, but I would like more healthy weight on her.