We've decided we cannot do it....

[alphahorses]

No, you're being RESPONSIBLE!

Not so worried about the issue w/other livestock as long as you know what kind and what can be transmitted to horses. Many diseases are species specific.

But without water, I would be surprised if the horse wasn't in serious distress after that much time in any type of weather, esp this heat (is it even legal to haul animals w/out water that far?)

I had a case where a hauler showed up and I refused to let them take the horse, it was such a dangerous situation. In that case, I was able to reach the buyer and they were grateful - they had not realized the situation.

In this case it sounds like your buyer knows the situation (??). If so, send their money back or keep the deposit .. whatever meets the original terms... I would not even sell the horse to someone who would allow such transportation.

General comment... I can't overemphasize the importance of a sales contract when you sell a horse, esp to people you have not met. A good sales contract will tell you exactly what your rights are in a situation like this with respect to any monies already paid. Even when I buy from a friend, I like to have a contract ... helps keep the friendship healthy!

 

[wwminis]

[SIZE=14pt]There's no way One of my horses would ever be shipped this way!

And to go without water and feed for 39 hours is cruel in this heat we have had this summer! [/SIZE]

I would call the buyer and tell them the sale is off! If they don't care enough to get safe and suitable transport, how do you think they will treat your horse when it get there!

Bill

 

[MountainViewMiniatures]

I absolutely would not allow one of my horses, big or small , to be shipped in this manner. In this heat, I would not be surprised if the poor baby would die from stress and dehydration. I would rethink any person buying one of my horses who would ship this way - either they areuncaring of their animals or are totally igornant and new to horses (NOT a bad thing - the bad thing would be them not researching and learning how to care for a horse which means dubious care all the way around)

If they were really concerned about the welfare of the horse, they would make absolutely certain they have safe transport - I myself have not hesitated to drive almost 3 days one way to pick up a new horse - I know no one will take better care of my horse than me. Of course, then I need to buy more than one to make the btrip wortwhile (so I tell my hubby

!)

 

[Buckskin gal]

In no way would I sell a horse that had to be shipped that way

Mary

 

[wildoak]

I wouldn't consider it. Sounds like a really risky proposition to me.

Jan

 

[Minimor]

I told the buyer yesterday that we would not put our boy on that truck in those circumstances. I fully expected to lose the sale. However, she was understanding. Upset, but understanding, and she still wants the horse. She hadn't realized that the horse would go that long without water, and that is a concern to her too. She is an experienced horse owner--got out of big horses several years ago & now wants a couple Minis. I did phone someone in her area to ask for references--was told that her horses were always well fed, well looked after, no sign of abuse. She knows her stuff. It's just that she's on a budget, and the $100 for this transport looks sooo much better than the $700 quoted by two other haulers. She said she'll send the money by express post tomorrow; we may have a reasonably priced ride in a private horse trailer, but that's not until October. She's anxious to get him home; she has a little girl who is asking every day "is the pony here yet?"

Just to see....I called the federal vet here this morning, and asked him about transport regulations. Cattle, sheep & all other ruminants can go 48 hours before you must stop & water them. Horses are "much less" than that he said. Ya, 36 hours. That surprises me, I'd have said 12, max. Obviously if I were hauling them myself, they'd be offered water much more often than every 12 hours, but for commercial shipments, I thought maybe 12. Never 36! Someone told me that when they haul down to Nationals the horses won't drink in the trailer or at rest stops anyway, but I figure at least in that case they're being offered the water. I personally have never had trouble getting horses to drink on the road--we haul our own water along, and most will go for that.

It is absolutely against the law to have different species of animals transported together. They can be on the same trailer, but each species must have it's own compartment. That is as I thought. I asked who would be in trouble if the load were found to be all mixed up, and he said the trucking company for sure (they should know better!) and possibly the owner/shipper. I suppose the owner/shipper would at least have to provide proof that he/she didn't know the horse would be put right in with the other animals...and how would you prove that?

I did think double decker trailers were illegal for hauling horses--big horses that is. Obviously the low ceiling isn't a problem for Minis (though on a triple decker it would be) but for big horses, there's no head room in there. He checked and said no, it's still legal to haul them in double deckers in Canada--all they are required is to have 6 inches of space above the withers.

He said some US states have banned them for hauling horses, others have not.

Anyway, I don't think this buyer is a bad home...once the horse is there. Sigh.

 

[hhpminis]

It sounds like it all turned out well and I am glad for that. Thanks for the information.

It is nice when you make a sale and everything works out well. It sounds like the new owners are reasonable and will take good care of him.

 

[bonloubri]

I have heard that when transporting horses you should stop every 500 miles or eight hours which ever comes first for a little rest and to check on them. Another thing to consider if shipping a stallion or gelding isn't it true that they will not urinate in a moving trailer/truck or whatever? That alone would be very uncomfortable to the horse for an extended period of time. IMO

 

[minispec]

As the 'buyer' for the gelding being purchased from Cedar Plains, I feel I must make a statement re: the purchase & transport of this horse.

I am 37 years old; I have been raised on horseback my entire life; I have bred, raised, trained, shown & sold Western Working Morgans for over 20 years, as well as having coaced for 15 of those years. I have learned through 4-H, Canadian Pony Club, and have taken on working student positions on different working horse farms in the U.S.; I have also been trained under world class equestrians.

As such, I have more than enough experience in shipping horses long distance, both in Canada and to & from the U.S. Never in my entire experience have I ever been 'late' to pick up a horse on a scheduled delivery date/time, neither have I ever neglected any animal in my care, horse or otherwise.

I have emailed numerous photographs of our own stock to Cedar Plains, which show Morgans in both excellent health, flesh & spirits. I have given no reason for this lady to believe that I am either neglegant OR inexperienced in the care, shipping & handling of any horse, whatever the breed.

As transport has been scarce, including our own planned trip to MB from Ontario, to pick up this gelding ourselves (due to a recent trailer purchase not making safety for lack of proper wiring to install brakes), I have been attempting to make alternate arrangements. I am not about to haul a trailer in the mountanous region of Northwestern Ontario without brakes, especially without properly functioning brakes.

Numerous minis have been shipped to Ontario by many miniature owners here, from MB, as that is the convenient means for the breeder selling them. However, I have never argued for one moment that this gelding should be shipped with other livestock without regard for his safety, health and well-being. I have only inquired as to room to ship him the first time, & the second on a partial trip where I would meet with the driver to pick the gelding up at a pre-selected location.

However, since it is logical that neither of these options is viable for the horse itself, I have discarded this livestock transporter as such. A possible ride for this gelding may be available in October, but is not definite, dependant entirely on the other party involved having enough horses to make the trip.

I had contacted one other miniature owner who is making a trip herself into the midwestern U.S., but she prefers to remain on the U.S. until she reaches the Canadian border. I understand this entirely, as it would add another day to her schedule & higher fuel costs.

Since I am a great distance from MB, I need to have transport verified, & I have been pulling my hair out trying to come up with alternate arrangements. It is very difficult to feel comfortable paying for a horse before solid transport arrangements have been made. I purchased a horse a while back prior to ensuring an available stall, & had to sell the mare back due to lack of availability. (the stable I previously kept my Morgans at was full at the time, & no one else was taking boarders in this 'boony' area) I'll not make the same mistake twice.

Re: transfer of papers - for those who do not know the Canadian Livestock & Pedigree act, it is the responsibility of the owner/agent selling the animal to ensure that the proper transfer of theregistration papers is completed, not the buyer's.

As personal and confidential information regarding this sale has been made public, using unnecessary comments and fictitious speculation on the part of Cedar Plains, I am hereby withdrawing my bid on this gelding. I do not feel comfortable dealing with someone who will stoop to such lows in their business.

Thank you for your attention.

Spectrum Miniatures

Ontario, Canada

 

[EMB]

Well, given what I have seen regarding this purchase on a couple of threads, I think you are doing a wise thing. I certainly would not feel good about going through with a purchase if I had seen myself discussed publicly on a forum like this.

Good for you. I am sure you will find the right horse and the right situation soon enough.

 

[Minimor]

Ah well, things tend to work out the way they are meant to work out

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Spectrum can do as they wish, it is, at the moment at least, a free world. I commend Minimor for her concern for her horse. She in no way even intimated who the purchaser might be and to have a hissy fit about is, to my way of thinking, especially as we do not know you from Adam, childish.

 

[RobinRTrueJoy]

Nope, wouldn't do it!!!

 

[HGFarm]

AUGH!!!! Absolutely would I NOT send any horse by this means!!! They must be taken care of properly with proper accomidations!! If this person does not care any more than that, I would not sell her the horse AT ALL!! It appears this will not be a problem now.

I commend you for your concern on travel concerns for your horse. I have not heard of anyone else having trouble paying for or shipping horses. There are a lot of responsible recommended haulers out there.

 

[^T-bird89^]

yeh, I agree! 39 hours is way to long

....4 hours is enough without water! I'd just wave godd bye to that lady

. Trust me, we've adopted out minis to inexperienced people before, and we end up getting them back all fat and unhealthy...she needs to educate herself on horses more 1st. Good Luck

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

Well, given what I have seen regarding this purchase on a couple of threads, I think you are doing a wise thing. I certainly would not feel good about going through with a purchase if I had seen myself discussed publicly on a forum like this. 

Good for you. I am sure you will find the right horse and the right situation soon enough. 

445534[/snapback]

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No one would have known a thing about the buyer had he/she not posted and Minimor never put forth any clues at all to the identity. At least she and 99.9% of the people on this forum have a clue about what is adequate transport

Minimor, you are right things ALWAYS work out for the best.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

WOW sorry this whole thing turned so ugly.

to the would be purchaser who everyone clearly said well ok seller and themselves said they would look into different transport I am sorry you have been somewhat attacked here.

I do understand the seller and concern for the horse I to have a clause in my contracts and bills of sale about transport

but well anyway all I will say now is that I am sorry how all of this turned out for all involved.

 

[EMB]

[Well imagine the sheer audacity of this woman! She should know better than to stand up and tell her side of the story. After all, the posts on this very public forum only made a series of rather huge assumptions about her. An assumption that she would “knowingly†allow her horse to go without a basic necessity such as water, for thirty some hours. An assumption that that she would be late for a delivery/pick up meeting. An assumption that she is either not knowledgeable or doesn’t care about this horse and thus would make a poor owner. An assumption that she didn’t check references from others who have used this same shipper in the past. I find it really hard to believe that I am the only one who read this thread as it evolved and wasn’t struck with a deep sense of discomfort. When I saw that she had stepped for ward and set the record straight I was relieved. For her trouble though, she was accused of having a “hissy fit†She was also accused of trying to intimidate the seller with her knowledge and experience. Nowhere was it suggested that she was insisting on that same shipper after the seller made her concerns known. Yet another assumption. Then as if that weren’t bad enough, her attempt to set the record straight was capped off with the statement that because she was an unknown she basically was out of line in making her post. Now how’s that for a paradox.

Surely I am not the only one who thought she had a right to speak out in her own defense without being further bullied for doing so. This comes right back down to the same thing that has reared its head on this forum so many times and why too many members here rarely if ever speak to anything that might go against the flow.

If some of you would just step back a little and look at this situation objectively you might see things differently. What if it was you that were being unfairly portrayed and your reputation on the line? Of course the suggestion has been made that as long as this person wasn’t identified then it is okay to carry out a public hanging. After all, if she had followed through with this purchase no one would ever know who she was right? Not likely.

So here we have it, a caring and knowledgeable person who wants to own horses and get involved in the miniature horse world. I wonder what this thread has taught her and others like her, about that world and those that inhabit it.

 

[MiLo Minis]

Well, given what I have seen regarding this purchase on a couple of threads, I think you are doing a wise thing. I certainly would not feel good about going through with a purchase if I had seen myself discussed publicly on a forum like this. 

Good for you. I am sure you will find the right horse and the right situation soon enough. 

445534[/snapback]

​

No one would have known a thing about the buyer had he/she not posted and Minimor never put forth any clues at all to the identity. At least she and 99.9% of the people on this forum have a clue about what is adequate transport

Minimor, you are right things ALWAYS work out for the best.

445864[/snapback]

​

 

[MiLo Minis]

Thank goodness I am not the only sane person around! I could not believe the attack on this poor woman!!! I personally have used the same truck to deliver 2 horses from Manitoba to Ontario. They were NOT on the truck for 40 hours - it was less than 24! They were travelling in a separate bunker from the other animals on the top tier at the front. The truck driver let me know that he kept an eye on them during the trip and I know he did because he said the older mare travelled better than the younger mare and he was right! When they arrived at the stock yard he unloaded the top tier first so that he could get the horses off as soon as possible. They were unloaded into separate pens with fresh shavings and water available in each pen. I watched the unloading so I know! I would not use this method of travel again for a younger horse but would for an older horse. I also do not think I would use it at this time of year - mine were shipped late fall but I don't blame this woman for checking out this method of transport at all - it is affordable and a definite option. Minimor should be ashamed of herself for blasting this private matter all over the Forum. She made several huge and incorrect assumptions and also made it out to be worse than it is. You know what ASSuming does! The buyer has the nerve to defend herself and is attacked for even that!