What does AMHA need to do to survive?

[LaVern]

But, he looked to me like he was within the height limits. Very pretty. I don't think that we can't tell people what type to show if they are reg. and are the right height, with either association.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

But, he looked to me like he was within the height limits. Very pretty. I don't think that we can't tell people what type to show if they are reg. and are the right height, with either association.

No fear, he is very much within height. I "knew" him when he was with a former owner. He was then, and is, a spectacular animal!! I only wish I could have afforded him!!!

 

[Charlotte]

I think Marlee knows her stuff.

I keep seeing prople talking about how much larger the classes are at Nationals vs World so I did a little research. AMATEUR HALTER CLASSES ONLY

NATIONALS..under 34" Amateur Halter classes: 6

World...Amateur Halter classes: 28 (if the Amateur Halter Futurity classes are counted you would have 38 Amateur Halter classes) [R does not offer an Amateur Futurity]

So if you cut the AMHA Amateur classes down to 6 they would be crammed too. The bottom line is...the beginner and the owner who wants to 'do it yourself' has a way better chance of coming home with some beautiful hardware. AMHA is a strong supporter of the beginner and the amateur and always trying to come up with new programs suited to them such as the Community Shows. (Youth also with the Youth Performance shows)

Oh, can someone tell me? Do all horses at Nationals still have to be measured in order to exhibit?

 

[Minimor]

Very well said... so much for the alleged "snooty" atmosphere with that many options for Ammys. AMHA does not seem to be geared just towards the BNTs, as many insist. The same - and more - BNTs are at the R shows as well.

I have to ask...who has ever said that 'snooty' has anything to do with how many many classes a show does or does not have? What does it have to do with the presence--or non-presence--of big name trainers?

I encountered some snooty AMHA people very soon after I got my first minis--they weren't trainers, they weren't professionals of any sort, they were just staunch AMHA members who took the attitude that if you don't have AMHA then you don't have anything worth having...AMHA is the only true miniature registry...things along that same line...that is the kind of thing I call snooty, and I'm quite sure that is what a good many others mean when they say snooty.

 

[ruffian]

Charlotte - absolutely every horse has to be measured to show at Nationals. And every year there are horses that are DQ'd due to height.

There's some interesting stuff here -

 

[tagalong]

I have to ask...who has ever said that 'snooty' has anything to do with how many many classes a show does or does not have? What does it have to do with the presence--or non-presence--of big name trainers?

Minimor - it is a oft-repeated complaint about AMHA in general - that it is snooty or snobbish or words to that effect. That statement is usually followed with the reason being that it caters only to the BNTs.

How does it relate? I think those who say that mean to say that that alleged attitude keeps people away.

 

[DJF Miniature Show Horses]

Wow! I'm learning alot here from all of you. I have been a member of AMHA since 2005. I'm an average "Jill" that trains and shows her own minis. I have never shown A or R only Pinto and open locally.

I cannot afford A shows because of the multi judge fees. If AMHA went back to one judge I could swing that. We have no shows in my area either. Closest is 4 hours away. Still hard with gas and lodging.

I know some people showing amateur and AOTE. Riverrose28 summed it up perfectly! There horses are all professionaly trained. Yet they are showing AOTE. That really burns me..aarrgghhh.... I am a TRUE definition of an AOTE exhibitor and I feel defeated already.

I went to a driving clinic wiith a LOC BOD popular trainer thinking maybe I could learn something new?? What I learned is if you don't have money or high end horses then don't bother showing in AMHA.

This man went as far as to tell us all that if our horses werent in his barn already they would be! I watched his way of training over the weekend and he is cruel and impatient. No way one of my sweet minis will ever see his barn!

In the open shows Judges have told me I drive like a pro. This has given me confidence. I have won many championships, hi points, and a buckle against all breeds of minis and ponies. Reinsmanship is my favorite. These AMHA drivers tell me I need a different mini. Mine is too average.

That remark has me thinking "Do I wish to continue supporting this club?" My thoughts "no".

I will have a better idea this time next year. I plan on going to 2 mini A shows in 2013. I may rejoin AMHR too.

Thank you all for confirming what I had suspected in AOTE and for your other opinions. Was informative....

 

[Charlotte]

Thank you Ruffian. I needed it verified that all horses still must be measured to show at Nationals before I comment any more.

We hear SO much discussion of which show is bigger, better etc etc etc. (I REALLY hate that because each registry has it's purpose and loyal membership and that is as it should be!) So below is an attempt to do some apples to apples comparison, which I have never seen before.

So talking about American Miniature Horses 34" and under........

In a private conversation with a person who knows, the number of horses MEASURED at Nationals was 1,200 (I am assuming that would be give or take a few) Now, because there are no facts published on this next part, we have to go by informed estimates.... that 60% or more were Over Division horses. If 60% were over division that leaves us with 480 (give or take a few) Under Division horses.

AMHA had 700 (give or take a few) horses entered in the World Show so good numbers of 34" and under horses for both.

+++ Oh, DJF....If you KNOW, or you know someone who knows of a person showing AOTE who is breaking the rules and there is PROOF of such PLEASE report it! It hurts everyone for someone cheating to be allowed to get away with it. But some proof must come forward. AMHA *WILL* discipline rule breakers.

 

[sfmini]

It is time to accept that attitudes have changed and those "snooty" people who thought very little of AMHR have reversed their position and very few will look down their noses at the "R" horses and most now own and show AMHR horses.

Way back when we started showing (mid 80's) there was a huge difference between the two registries horse types. The Arab look was winning in A and the pony look was winning in R. I am guessing a lot had to do with the pony people being in control of R and the pony people were judging the shows. Early A people had an elitist attitude, the horses were priced out of a lot of our reach.

Both groups have evolved, and you should try to try them out again.

Be conscious of your timing as well and remember that nerves can be stretched thin before our classes and might not be as receptive to strangers. And, some people can be snobs, but very, very few are now.

 

[DJF Miniature Show Horses]

Where I live and show Ruffian these people are in deep with the bigger trainers and farms and look down on me and insult me every chance they get! They have told me to not waste my time at A shows if Im not willing or able to buy a high end mini or get a trainer. I even beat these snobs in open driving but they won't leave me alone.

I hate showing with them :-(

I love my horses and am trying to have fun.

My horses are Bond, FWF and Komoko. They have several world champion drivers old and new in there pedigrees. My new colt is going to be an in the middle driver. Cute but not high end. They told me he was not typey enough. I hope he kicks there butts in open. AMHA probibly not...

One of the AOTE people works for A. The other 2 buy pro trained horses and have trainers. When I said they didnt train there own horses they told me "everyone does it". Well I wont!!!

Why with this attitude A may lose another member cause there is no classes for average show people like me who know and follow the rules...

 

[wildoak]

Good post Jody...

We have bounced back and forth over the years, showing A and R. Doing more R these days, as I have a few over horses to show and it's just hard to do it all, but I would never rule out showing A as we always enjoyed it too. Just having a lot of fun with R these days!

Jan

 

[Minimor]

Minimor - it is a oft-repeated complaint about AMHA in general - that it is snooty or snobbish or words to that effect. That statement is usually followed with the reason being that it caters only to the BNTs.

How does it relate? I think those who say that mean to say that that alleged attitude keeps people away.

Oh I know it keeps people away--it certainly worked for me 10 years ago and I have since lost all interest in the organization--and I know many people say it, but I've never heard anyone link snooty with lack of Ammy classes or too many BNTs--the only context I have heard it used in is in reference to the superior attitudes of a number of members/breeders/exhibitors. I myself have used the word snooty to describe certain AMHA people and my use of the word has nothing at all to do with Ammy or open classes or trainers...I don't show Ammy and could care less if a show offers Ammy classes or not.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I wish AMHR had at AOTE program I really do, showing in amateur it's tough, not just at Nationals but local as well. It seems almost easier to show in Open at Nationals. However when you have 381 classes and showing for almost 2 weeks it would be very hard to add in those extra classes. AMHR isn't scratching classes tho they added 7 to the schedule this year, adding 4 driving classes to the futurity which was greatly needed, and the new draft halter classes which I so hope will continue to have next year. It would be awesome if they can revamp the Amateur program for AMHR.

Also I'm sorry but I cannot see that there were more over horses then there were unders. I do think the over horses are growing but the unders have always had more entries and perhaps one day there might be more overs but not sure when that day will happen. I think the under horses will remain popular mostly with families considering how many of the over horses are now shetlands. Also according to the AMHR's site there were 1510 horses at Nationals, and what we heard from Mr. Davenport that their were around 1500. I do know of one farm that did not show and they had over I think 5 horses that were signed up. That number may change at Convention but I will say that the barns were full, their did not seem to be less amount of horses shown, classes were full with tough competition.

 

[Viki]

I'm sorry, I have to laugh every time someone says AMHA is going under. Wont make it another year, etc. I started on my adventure into Miniature Horses in 1992. EVERY year I hear how AMHA is on it's way out. Sure is taking a long time to go under, dont you think? LOL

 

[Minimor]

The AMHR show results page shows 1510 entries. Since horses do not show in more than one division, hence each horse would be issued one number (unlike Congress where a pony might show as a Modern and as a Show Pony so would get 2 numbers and might be counted twice)--that means that 1510 must be an accurate horse count--unless as Jamie said a few horses did not show after being counted in that 1510. I doubt AMHR would lie about entry numbers, so I expect that number is correct--I would take it over the word of "someone who knows"...

Both groups have evolved, and you should try to try them out again.Be conscious of your timing as well and remember that nerves can be stretched thin before our classes and might not be as receptive to strangers. And, some people can be snobs, but very, very few are now.

Unfortunately for the registry, there are those of us who were put off years ago and who have since gone a different direction and have no interest at all in trying out the registry again. There is nothing for us there now.
People use show nerves and "busy" as an excuse for being unfriendly; that is lame. No matter how busy or stressed one may be, it's not that difficult to flash someone a smile and say HI, or--if the person persists in talking/asking questions--it is easy and polite to say I'm sorry, I'm very busy at the moment, could you come back in an hour or so and I should have time to answer your questions.....been there done that! But--in all honesty that is not an AMHA issue, one can encounter that sort of unfriendliness/rudeness at any show, in any breed or registry.

 

[sdmini]

I show AMHA and AMHR, I have shown at Nationals and World and very much am the "little" guy. I showed at Nationals only this year, started with some B's on the string and only had enough money to do one so went R this year. I fit well, not trainer well, but hold my own locally with trainers in open classes. That said Nationally Ammy classes are a bear, the amount of trainer horses has likely more than doubled. It use to be the association with the most trainers was AMHA but as the pendulum swung from small to tall more and more crossed over to now I would say 90-95% of the top trainers do both. You would be surprised at how many Top Ten, Top Five and yes even National Champions get the gate in Ammy every year at Nationals.

Out of curiosity I counted 40 some trainer horses that took the top ten spots in the six Amateur classes at Nationals. I didn't even count the very, very good amateurs such as Erica, I only counted ones I knew were with trainers. It's not an exact count as I knew some were with trainers even though they were not listed, some I'm sure I missed. At a local level I don't know how much it matters, pick AMHA//AMHR what ever is easiest.

The AOTE is not perfect, it's flawed in the fact that it count's largely on people to behave in an honest, forthright nature and that doesn't always happen and that is not an association thing, it's a decent human being thing. While not perfect it does offer an alternative. Local shows likely will not break down level 1 and level 2 but they are there at a World level.

I had to go and look at the show number break down, I'm not going to count each horse but did count several classes under numbers and over numbers. Amateur classes had 182 unders and 169 overs, Futurity had 104 unders and a staggering 218 overs, Open had 416 unders and 344 overs. Halter counts for almost 60% of all entries so I didn't do any performance figures, they are there if you want to look. I did not count model, color, owned/bred/shown or any of those classes either. Safe to say it fairly close to a 50/50 break-down.

I love both AMHA and AMHR, but asking this forum "how to fix" AMHA is a lot like asking the Democrats how to fix the Republicans or vice versa.

 

[shelia]

I think both AMHA and AMHR should have another class. At least AMHA should have it. They could call it early Amature (or something like that). It should be a class that is for a persons first 5 or 10 shows. it should be kind of a schooling class with lots of welcoming to new people.

Going out in the ring is very intimidating. It will give people a chance to see if they will like it. We could even present a graduation plaque or something at the end of each persons time. it would certainly relieve some pressure and they wouldn't have to compete with people who have been doing it for a while.

New people are afraid and can get discouraged very quickly. The classes for this should be about half price.

 

[disneyhorse]

Any AMHR show can offer non rated classes... I have seen "novice" classes offered. This would be where getting involved with local clubs is so important...

 

[sfmini]

One of the AOTE people works for A.

None of the AOTE or any other members works for AMHA as employees of AMHA are not allowed to own AMHA registered horses. If you know of one who does, file a protest.

It would be impossible to enforce any rule stating an AOTE horse could never have been with a trainer. Also, a horse away from a trainer loses condition and sharpness quickly, so with the exception of people who are able to show in January and February, they don't really have too much of an advantage in the show ring. That professional groom job is history within a week or two. Those of us who live in colder climates don't have any special advantage from having our horses in training until December 31.

Look, we tried to make it as fair as we can, and it is what it is.

 

[targetsmom]

All the AMHA shows I have done in New England have non-rated classes for newbies - either Novice Adult and Novice Youth - with some nice awards for High Point or Supreme Halter horse - or Mentored Beginner classes where an experienced person goes into the ring with you to give you pointers, but cannot touch the horse. For example, they can tell you if the horse is set up best or is too stretched, when the judge is coming, and just offer moral support. Sounds like just what Shelia would like. And as said earlier on this thread, one Club has added 4-H classes and these are very popular.