What Should I Do?

[lovinarabs]

What about a wireless pet fence? Worked well for a family I know with a keeshound.

 

[Reijel's Mom]

There are a # of things you could do training wise before giving up on your dogs. I hope that you consult a professional trainer or behaviorist before seeking another home for them. Not all dogs out there have that very strong predatory nature. In my experience I would say GSD's do have that more than many other dogs, but they were also originally bred to herd animals, to protect them.

Good luck with whatever you decide! If you decide to give the dogs up I hope you can find a wonderful home for them.

 

[Humhill]

Get a donkey. They'll chase back and the dogs usually give up. I've heard of people using llamas to but they tend to be harder to deal with and also have a tendency to be TOO aggressive and kill the dogs.

 

[Magic]

A friend of mine has the invisible fencing for her five dogs, and that is the ONLY kind of "fencing" they have for the dogs, and it works great. I think that it may very well be worth a try, to put the invisible fencing between the dogs and the horses.

:

 

[Skittlebittie]

Well, let me just tell you MY experience! My husband feels it is his duty to bring home any stray dogs he finds, or that are given to him..........I dont want to talk about that problem. But, one of the dogs he brought home started out really small, and ended up Great Dane size. He was as big as some of my horses. Well, the dogs and the horses share common chain link fence, and the dogs like to bark at the horses, and the horses like to tease the dogs through the fence. I used to let the horses graze in the backyard before the newest dog came, and they did fine (most of the dogs are very smallish). Well, one day, I let the horses out to graze and even though they had 10 acres to roam free, they decided to push the fence open in the back yard where the dogs were. Only 3 horses went into the yard, the rest of them had enough sense to stay out. But, one of the horses was a 7 month old colt. I just had a "feeling" that I should go outside to check on the horses, and I couldn't find 3 of them. I looked into the back yard, and found the new dog holding the colt by the back of the neck. Apparently, he had grabbed him on top of the mane, and had one jaw on each side of his neck. Just when I saw them, the dog was flinging his head back and forth, and the colt went down. I ran screaming to beat the dog off of the horse, and it took some doing, by the way. The colt went to the vet, and was fine after the huge, gaping wounds healed, but he would have been dead if I had not walked outside the moment I did. The dog was euthanized (put to sleep) the very next day, as soon as I could transport him to the vet. I would never, ever, wish this on anyone. Dogs are pack animals. Each pack has a leader, and others stand by and wait for the leader to make the first move. I too, had no idea that this would have ever happened, but it did. Dont let it happen to your horse................

 

[Katie12]

I raise german Shepherds and they are herding dogs. It is natural for them to chase the horses. I have found unless they were turned with the horses as pups they will herd them as adults.

 

[Nichcole]

I don't think anyone should tell her to get rid of her dogs! they are search and recsue dogs, meaning they can save lives, even your life!

Maybe dog proofing your horse feilds would be a good idea, putting chainlink on the bottom of it (depending on what type of fencing you have) could work if they don't show any willing ness to jump that fence. Also this same chainlink could be used to fill gaps if the dogs simply just go through the next highest.

I think that the cement dog pen is a very good idea, and the shock training. What about invisbale fencing for your dogs.

It does not sound like your dogs are trying to hurt your horses at all, but sometimes bad things happen. You should not just get rid of the dogs or the horses with out trying out a few things, dog proof fencing and pens, and training. My mom trained her dog to stay out of her garden and she does even when there is chimpmunk or squrrel in it (she loves to chase them!) even when no one is around, we watch from the window. I think it very possible for you to train your dogs to stay out of a horse pen.

I totally agree, our horses are in a woven wire fence to keep the dogs out if we are not around, I recently bought a red heeler , my husband was very worried that he would try to heel the horses. I really worked with him on listening and staying a way from the horses. My heeler never tryed to heel the horses but I would not let him get with in 5 feet of the horses. The best training tool is a shock collar, I have one that adjust from 1 to 10 being the highest shock level. I use the lightest level and shocked him if he chose not to listen and gets with in 5 feet of the horses. I only had to shock him a few times

Our horse help us train our dogs too, our big horses will chase them down and so will my minis. I was walking my mini stud and we walked past our Golden retrivers, Miguel turned his head and bit him in the butt.

 

[cameominis]

Dogs will and have killed minis.Please keep them put up until you get a escape proof pen made for your dogs.I have dogs and minis but my dogs never are allowed near the barn.Keep your minis safe!!!!!

 

[Tony]

When I was a child, we had a wonderful pet German Shepherd who chased our ponies, which we raised at the time. Eventually he started nipping at them in fun and ended up skinning three foals, in "fun" before my parents finally got rid of him. They penned him up for a while, but like yours, he was able to get out every day. Good luck.

 

[Charlotte]

If you can't permanently and guaranteed seperate the dogs from the horses.....Get rid of the dogs or get rid of the horses! You have a horror waiting to happen to those horses.

I imagine you have never had to experience the horror of what just one dog can do to a miniature horse.....they literally eat them while they are alive! Can you even imagine the terror and pain of the horse? As they run and run and fight and fight until they are hamstringed or too exhausted and go down?

Charlotte

 

[PaintedMeadows]

I agree about the donkey. We have them and our mini gelding chased a cougar away and he kicked the crap out of a neighbours dogs that were chasing our horses. Our 2 dogs are afraid of them and behave really well. They go into the pasture and sniff around and lay with the horses but they don't chase, bark or nip. My dane runs back to me when the horses start to run. And Fargo is bigger than the donkeys and horses. Just a thought. Good luck with your decision.

 

[fdmedic]

The other thing I need to mention is that there are a lot of stray dogs near my place. Right after I moved here, there were at least five strays that were coming into the barn. No collars on any of them, and they were very afraid of people. Since my dogs have been out, I haven't seen them. I'm sure that if I keep my dogs locked up, the strays will be back. I am worried more about them, then my own dogs. I have no idea what their temperments are like. They seem to travel in a pack. If I keep my dogs penned up, what should I do about the strays??

 

[minihorseluver]

My fiancee has a coon dog pup (7 months), and we just moved onto a new farm so she and my minis just met a few months ago. Well, Beth decided that she was going to bark at them, and my minis aren't unfamilliar with dogs, since my parents have a wolf for a pet at their farm. Beth is only let off her leash when we're on the farm, but she still seemed to have to bark at the horses.

So, I put my boss mare in my round pen, and let Beth bark at her. Note, she was still on a leash, and in my control, but it only took one swift kick, and Beth doesn't even acknowledge the horses anymore. For those who may be alarmed at this "lesson" The mare isn't in foal, my fiancee was right there, and Beth was in no way going to hurt her with me on the other end of the leash. Flash just decided that she'd had enough of Beth's barking, and she showed her whose boss. Maybe you should try that with one of you're dogs if you're horses are dominant enough. Flash is one of those horses who will let you know if she doesn't like what is happening, so it worked perfectly for me. Beth hasn't barked at any of the horses for two months now, hopefully I won't have to worry about this again. I'll be happy when we get our kennels put up next summer, and I won't have to worry about any dogs getting off their ties.

 

[Marty]

My dog Tracey is trained for search and rescue but lacked the last leg of her certificate because I pulled her from the last part of the tests that was extremely dangerous to her for this area.

She is a German Shephard.

I know what it takes to be a search and rescue dog and that means a highly skilled and trained dog with a priceless nose.........

I cannot understand why your dogs are not obedient in that regard to leave your horses alone. That is just very basic obedience training.

That being said, if left untrained and unmanaged to her own vices and instincts, Tracey would probably also be bothering the horses here too. She did as a puppy and she learned early on that was a big NO. She knew her bounderies once they were set and was not allowed inside of the pasture gates. To this day, she will halt 4 feet back of the gate even if it is left open and will not enter unless she has been invited.

German Shephard dogs will lay down their lives to please their masters and they need a job or atleast think that they have one. They do not require shock collars or any such devices other than a good trainer that knows what they are doing. These dogs are easily trained. Your dogs instinct may be at an all time high to chase or to herd and that is normal and what comes natural if not properly trained otherwise. They must be worked with, restrained properly and that means humanely, trained, and given much one on one time with you, probably much more than they are getting at the moment. Take them out daily and work them. Your answer is not to pen them up better, or more often, but rather to go back to basic training skills and also do something to dog proof your fencing such as useing field fencing.

Best wishes and good luck to you and all

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The most notorious sheep killers in the WORLD are Border Collies- dogs bred ONLY to herd sheep.

A dog's herding instinct is it's predatory instinct, controlled.

A herding dog has all that is necessary, in it's genes, to turn it into as vicious a killer as any Pit Bull- they always get the rap yet they were NEVER bred to kill, only fight. They have to be trained to kill, a herding dog will kill without training.

Marty, I know how much you love your Tracey BUT in her younger days would you honestly have left her out with the mares and foals , on her own, unattended, and expected to come back and find everything OK??

No-one in their right mind would do that- we have even had horses maimed by Pyreneans- so what could a GSD or Collie do??

Those of you who are blithely suggesting training the dogs have obviously never had a foal ripped to pieces.

It is virtually impossible to retrain a grown dog that has exhibited aggression towards prey animals, and certainly not to the extent where they would be safe to be left with them.

I cannot understand why or how trained search and rescue dogs would even begin to exhibit ANY sort of predatory behaviour- all the ones I know would fail at the first test if they were not absolutely sound towards livestock- what good is a dog that is supposed to be looking for a lost child if it runs off after a load of sheep/antelope/deer/horses?????

That being said no dog should ever be put in a position where it is left unattended with small children or livestock, it just is not fair to the dog.

You need only to walk your dogs round the borders, every day, under control, to ward off the stray dogs.

You can also warn them off by collecting your husbands urine (Yes, I know GROSS!!) and "marking" the territory boundaries.

Apart from that and strong, no climb fencing, sitting up with a gun is really the only defence.

Your dogs are as likely to join the strays in attacking the horses as they are to defend the horses, as you know the prey drive is the.

We have given you advice, you have, I presume , been to look at the threads about horses ripped apart by pet dogs, you know the risks.

What you do next is entirely up to you but, PLEASE, do not do nothing.!!!

 

[Jill]

There's nothing I love more than my horses unless we're talking about my dogs.

However, if you cannot keep the dogs out of the horse areas, then I think either the dogs or the horses have to go.

A friend of mine had a germanshepherd nearly kill a quarter horse foal years ago -- imagine what that dog could have done to even a full grown mini?

Then on the other hand, one of my big horses killed a corgi where he is boarded. That dog and the other dogs at that stable were allowed to pester the horses for time on end barking and nipping at them and my horse had had enough! I feel bad for the dog but do not blame my horse.

Is there some kind of tighter fencing you could put around the horse areas to keep the dogs out? Or an invisible fence and them wearing electic collars? Or a hot wire? I think there will be a solution that would let you have both but if there really is not a way to keep the dogs out of the horse areas, it's just not fair to the horses not to protect them.

Might try cattle panels. They are pretty strong and what we use here for our paddocks. I shepherd could not go through them and maybe put rail road ties in front to be sure if they start to dig under, you will find it before they make any real progress?

 

[Marnie]

As I reread this thread, I see you say you have wild or packs of dogs all around too. Can you put your horses in at night, are you their during the day, are they close to the house during the day, maybe you could put camera's up too to help watch them? You could get bigger donkeys and llama's to help but if your own dogs are pestering them and you have wild packs, the horses don't stand much of a chance. I don't know how many horses you have or your set up. But I do know that if I were in your boat, I would go full force on everything I have said here and if I couldn't for any reason, lack of money, lack of space to close them, in when needed, etc, if they were in danger from any dogs and I couldn't help them, for there sake, I would find the horses new homes. I don't know how much you love the dogs either, I'm with Jill, as much as I love my horses, if someone came to me and said, get rid of your horses or your dogs, my horses would be gone real fast. My dogs are family. But I'm not a big fan of these big dog that are drawn to kill cats or anything that move, I hate seeing these little horses mauled and killed when things could have been prevented. Some owners just don't think their pets will kill but they will. Did you go on the search and find some old threads with pictures of the little horses standing there in pain, with half there meat hanging off of them? If you tell us more about your exact situation, maybe we can help more. I know the main thing is we just want to help you and don't want the horses hurt, as you're talking to a lot of mini horse lovers here.

Edited to say this and for the people suggesting the collars. They won't help stray packs of dogs. And as far as any training, if strays attack, hers will join in. I really think she needs to tell us more about her situation, amount of horses, barns, she needs to keep these horses safe now. I just went back and looked at some of the old threads on dog attacks and they make me sick. And some were unnecessary but the owners didn't think their dogs would hurt the horses. I'm sorry if I'm overreacting, this is just a pet peeve of mine.

 

[justagirl]

I did not read all the replies, so forgive me if I'm repeating what someone has said. ... I just want to say that I have a GS . GS are herding dogs. Long before the Germans used them as police dogs, they were primarily herd dogs.

My bitch will watch over the herd all day long , and if any other dogs come on the property she quickly runs them off and goes back to her 'job' . She never nips at them unless someone isn't getting on the trailer or won't come in for feeding. She lies down in the pasture almost all day and just watches over them. I used to keep her up at night until another dog killed my goat, then I started leaving her out 24/7 (we have no leash laws in my county)

So you need to realize they are only going on their instinct.

BUT, that doesn't mean you should allow it , if you feel they will hurt your babies. This is serious business and should be acted on immediately.

What I would recommend is a training collar that gives a mild shock (remote controlled) when they exhibit this unacceptable behavior since you seem to be unable to keep them pinned.

Or , put them on a runner. This allows you to keep them somewhat confined with out making their quality of life miserable. They have plenty of room to run, but can't have access to the horses.

Or you could poor a concrete pad and place your pen on it, and construct a top from 2 x 4 and chicken wire.

As you said they are trained for search & rescue, so they must be intelligent, you just need to train them to stay out of the pasture or how to act when they are allowed in the pasture.

Best of Luck

:

 

[ChrystalPaths]

I have spent the time reading all the replies. I have trained dogs for over 30 yrs. German shepherds are a favorite of mine to train. They listen are eager to get "it" and please. "If" these dogs are S&R trained they should know to obey a word or signal immediately. Did you train them? If so, it is time for some work. Get a big air horn or even a garden hose. Each time the dog approaches the horse area it gets blasted by water or that horrible noise and a huge NO or BACK OFF. Sometimes (if it's a smart dog) tossing a penny can is enough to get attention so you can reprimand with the BIG WORDS then teach DO NOT BOTHER HORSE NONONO. You can't just yell stop or quit then turn and hope they listen. One must take hold of each dog, look them in the eye and tell them how absolutely horrible they are and how ashamed you are of their behavior. Shepherds are so smart and senstive. If this isn't possible I suggest getting invisible fence. I have it. 3 acres worth. My dogs can run all over but cannot get near the horses if they have a collar on. It is safe, humane and very effective. A 2 collar system w/ 3 acres of wire costs about $300 which is VERY worth the lives of your horse and your beloved dogs. I would be happy to give you the link to the wonderful company I bought from. JMHO folks.

 

[HGFarm]

See the posting on Tony's dog attack and yes, ANY dog can do it!!! Especially when you have a group of two or more, like you do.

I also, wonder why they dont mind?? This tells me they are very intent on their 'victim'

Many years ago, we had a dog that kept digging out of a kennel. We did not run the fencing straight down, as some do, but lined the ENTIRE bottom of the kennel with chain link, just like the sides and attached it to the exhisting framework. Then we brought in some fresh dirt, to bury the chain link. That way they are on the dirt, not wire. When they try to dig out, no matter where, they hit the chain link and cant get out. The top of the pen was covered in wire and then also had the roof over that.

We never had another dog get out. I suggest you take care of the problem right away, or you are going to have another issue on your hands. The dogs are NOT playing!!!