Would like opinions on 30" and Under horses

[Becky]

I breed miniature horses that are 34" and under. My current breeding horses are 29" - 33". Some foals mature well under 30" and some mature considerably taller. As long as the foals are correct, refined and the quality I want to produce, I am happy with them no matter their size.

I've shown quite a few 30" and under horses, both mine and my client's, and they have been quite successful in the show ring.

 

[Charlotte]

I couldn't answer the last question very well because I feel that the American Miniature Horse as a whole has changed dramatically in the past 20 years....not just the under 30 ones. Also, I feel we see less of the smaller horses in the show ring because of the bias of our judging system.....that is, our judges aren't instructed to use the smaller horse if it is a balanced individual and with so many of our judges first carded in the full size breeds where 'bigger is better' I feel that is a subconcious criteria for many judges.

Most of y'all know how I feel about the little horses. Small and perfect is where I go and I love nothing better than to take a little one out and let them shine.

I don't have time to post a bunch of pictures this morning, but many under 30s can be seen on my web site and in my opinion they are good balanced horses with atheletic conformation.

And as I've said over and over, the under 30s have been more problem free as broodmares than the over 30s here.

I'll try to come back and post a few pix after I get all the little hoofers fed and turned out this morning...and stalls cleaned and, and, and.......

Charlotte

p.s. Oh, I will have a momentous announcement soon.

 

[targetsmom]

I would like to add a qualifier.. even though we don't breed for the tinies, our stallion SRF Buckshot is just over 30" and one of our mares (Jones Call Me Blue Admiration - Max's dam) is also between 30 and 31". Max was shown as an under 30" yearling, but of course was likely to have gotten bigger if he had lived. Buckshot is green broke to drive, jumps, and has his Pinto Championship with performance points in trail and hunter. So we do know the smaller minis can do performance!

"Mira" just over 30"

Buckshot: 30.25"

 

[JMS Miniatures]

It's alot harder to win with a 30" and under horse in both halter and driving locally. Thats the problem I see with it. If you can then you have a great horse.

I think the quality of the 30" and under horses is better, the breeders who try and breed for that size are responsible, maybe more so, and if you can continue breeding that small and conformationally correct then you are doing something right, and I wouldn't give that up.

I prefer over 30" cause I do drive and I'm not a small person. The smallest one I have and do drive is 31" and he is doing great, and that guy can go fast even with me in the cart.

Nope nothing against the smaller minis at all, just got to go with something bigger for me.

 

[Jill]

I'm not a hardcore fan of the real tiny horses, but am really proud of our most recent "addition". Erica's Can't Take My Eyes Off You, a/k/a "Squirt". is a little 2yo under 29" and is a 3x National Champion in halter classes. Triple bred Redboy and just really the embodiment of his name.

Squirt won three National Championship in halter classes against colts of all size ranges w/in the "Under" size category (so ones that will mature 34" or so were represented). He's proudly co-owned with Erica:

H and also own a lovely 30" BTU double dilute mare, Erica's Sweet as Sugar. Wonderful mom and dam of some surprisingly very leggy (but under size) and feminine fillies we are happy to call our own:

 

[Sandee]

My sister owns a 28" stallion which drives and jumps and she wins a lot of OPEN shows against big horses with him in halter as well as driving. However, my 32" guy is just too slow and low for me. He has won the National title in 32" and under Western driving but I have found that I love speed and action. So I go for the top of the height. I look for the 33 3/4" or the 37 to 37 1/2" because I want the most leg and action that I can get in the class. I admit I'm not a halter fan. I do like good conformation but I LOVE performance! (good set of brains helps too which has nothing to do with height)

 

[Jill]

I also just wanted to add that our mare above, Sweetie, has been bred two times to our Res. Nat'l Grand Champion, Destiny and he's a little over 33" tall. I think when it comes to breeding mares x stallions, it's the refinement of the stallion that matters more than his height. By a long shot, really, imo.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I'm really appreciative of all the feedback I'm getting.

Everyone is being honest about their own feelings on the subject and also respectful of others. I love this forum!

I totally understand why people have preferences for the taller ones. Maybe it's just the "look" you like, like I enjoy the "look" of a tinier horse...although I still strive VERY hard for that tiny horse to "look" as horsey and leggy as possible. As for driving, I totally get that too. I'm NOT a small woman and if I were to drive (and I don't drive at all) a 30" horse, even though I think many that size can pull a person my size and the cart just fine, I don't think it makes a balanced picture. I drove in one class in my entire life and it was at Nationals in Country Pleasure and the horse was about 33" if I remember correctly. I saw the pictures and although I wish I weighed less, it didn't look too bad. And the horse did not seem to have any issues at all. It was a very large class so we went around a LOT it seemed. I guess so the judges could see everybody. We didn't place, but I didn't expect to my first and only time in the ring. But even in halter I sometimes see pictures of myself showing and think the overall picture would be better if I was a smaller person. But then I see pics of Ed showing my horses and I think it's hilarious!

But it looks good! I guess because he's not just so tall, but basically slender/normal weight.

I agree 100% that even if your horse can win it's height division, you are really hard pressed to make any strides in the grand and supreme classes. I've shown Star, Sera, Binky, Corona, Raven and now Scarlet. Each is under 30". Only Star and Binky showed in 28-30", the rest 28" & Under. Binky, and so far Scarlet have never been awarded a Grand or Supreme. Star won 4 Grands while showing, but that was in 2007 and I think today she wouldn't win one. That's how much I've seen the quality change in a short period of time. Sera won a few supremes, but in ammy only. Corona was Reserve Senior Champion Stallion at the Area IV show (shown by me) which BLEW MY MIND! He was against some serious competition and they all were MUCH taller. Raven is the only horse that I've had that consistently won Grands and Supremes - she won some as a yearling, a 2yo and also as a senior mare, both in open and ammy. She earned her ROM in open halter and I could be wrong about this, but I don't think that happens much these days for a horse that is 28" tall. Yet, there are still things I would change about her conformation if I could. There is no perfect horse!

I'm learning a lot about what people, in general, think of the under 30" horse and I feel like this discussion is very education for all of us.

Please, keep commenting and posting your photos!

Personally, I'd love to see more folks showing in the smaller classes! I'm even going to sponsor a multi-year cash award (you're hearing it here first folks!

) for the winner of the Senior Mare, 28" & Under class at World. It's not going to be much, but it's all I can afford but I'm hoping it encourages others to enter the class. I know Jonathan Whitt has a 28" senior mare this year that will be tough for Scarlet to compete with, but I LOVE the competition! I don't really think he needs my cash, but just the same I'm hoping it encourages others to enter in the future.

 

[minimomNC]

I did own a 28" & under mare for a few years that we had with James Walsh. In the time he had her, about a year and a half, she was Honor Roll champion as a yearling mare 28" & under and she took a total of four Supremes with him. Two open, one amateur with Samantha and one youth with a 7 & under kid. They were at big shows including Silver Jubilee and one of the fall shows in FL. So it can be done.

 

[Riverrose28]

I bred our senior stallion Lucky Four Sugar Boys Sundowner 32"s to a 30" mare Sweetwaters Dutch Treat, and she gave me a palomino filly, River Rose Vanilla Sky Sundown, "Sky" was 29"s as a two year old and was AMHA Regional Champion 2yrs 29" mare and third at Worlds out of about 16 other horses. She measured in at 30"s as a three year old, but between her third and fourth year she gained a 1/2 inch. I have her picture over my mantel along with all of her plaques, she also won a few as a senior mare. I sold her, but she is still in my heart. I have several 30" mares and a stallion that as a senior measures in at 30 1/4 inches, out of two time National Champion Lucky Four Strike me Silver, I breed him to my small mares, or I did when I was breeding. Most are just lawn ornaments these days. I happen to prefer my 35 and 36" mares, but love all horses as long as they are put together just right. I do think the smaller ones are improving as far as legs and backs are concerned, shorter backs and longer legs make for a better show prospect. As a matter of fact, and it is just my opinion, but I think the mini's as a whole are improving, especially concerning the AMHR horses, and purhaps are evolving into someday soon haveing a standard instead of just a height registry. I've also noticed that judging is getting harder as so many horses are showing great conformation and show atitude. I think the future is looking brighter for both registries concerning all horses and heights as it seems the breeding is improving.

 

[REO]

Parmela, you accidentally voted for

I feel the quality of the 30" & Under horse is getting worse

I love them ALL!!!!! (thought I don't breed FOR under 30") We've had quite a few foals that matured under 30". Nort is a downsizer often.

His son Pooka is just under 30"!

 

[a mini dream come true]

I'm just getting started in miniatures and my preference is the under 30". There is nothing wrong with the taller horse. I have seen some beautiful ones, I just prefer the smaller ones. My Stallion is 28.75" and 50% Fallabella. He is really such a great little guy. I'll try to post a picture later. The under 30" is where I want to be with my herd. JMHO.

 

[HGFarm]

JMO- the quality has improved for the most part over the years of the smaller horses. They are cute but I like to drive and like performance, so prefer something at least 31.5 or bigger...........

 

[Helicopter]

I love the teeny tinies. I do have a couple under 30" but would love to have a paddock full of the tiniest ones I could find. However I already have a paddock full of all sizes and they aren't going anywhere ever. I haven't bred and after reading all the horror stories on this site never will.

Love the tiny ones

Love the big ones too.

Love 'em all.

:wub

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Parmela, you accidentally voted for

I feel the quality of the 30" & Under horse is getting worse

I love them ALL!!!!! (thought I don't breed FOR under 30") We've had quite a few foals that matured under 30". Nort is a downsizer often.

His son Pooka is just under 30"!

I have a couple of under 30s. One is 28.5", an older mare who was shown extensively by her previous owner and did very well and the other is a tiny tiny 3 yr old filly who measured at 27.5 this year. She is so delicate and small I will never breed her to any stallion in this area, they are all much to stocky for her even if they are short. BUT ...Reo, if I lived any where near you I might actually consider breeding her to this lovely guy. OH MY

that little man could make me love the tinies for sure. I am however a confirmed driving addict so my little bitty girl will just remain a yard ornament (she does look lovely next to my rose bush

) unless I can find a youth who wants to show a tiny one. She was a bit chubby in these pictures as a 27" yearling.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Parmela, you accidentally voted for

I feel the quality of the 30" & Under horse is getting worse

I love them ALL!!!!! (thought I don't breed FOR under 30") We've had quite a few foals that matured under 30". Nort is a downsizer often.

His son Pooka is just under 30"!

Thanks Robin for catching that! I was able to fix it.

And I've seen Pooka in person and he's even nicer than these gorgeous photos show!!

 

[Riverrose28]

OK here are a couple of pictures of 29 inches of attitude: River Rose Vanilla Sky Sundown:

 

[joylee123]

I have always loved the little ones It has only been over the past three years or so that I have gotten some biggies LOL! (33-33.5)

I also love driving the small ones I used to have a 29.75 stallion who was pretty hard to beat under harness back in the day.

Right now I'm on Honor Roll with my 29.5 amateur senior gelding, and I know I'm kinda partial

But I think he's gorgeous

.Yes I believe the smaller ones have come along way in refinement and balance over the past 10-15 years.

Can't wait to see what this little guy does under harness. I'll be starting him after Worlds.

Beloveds Double Divine One 29.5

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Congratulations on owning Double! He's gorgeous and has quite the show record to prove it.

I have always loved the little ones It has only been over the past three years or so that I have gotten some biggies LOL! (33-33.5)

I also love driving the small ones I used to have a 29.75 stallion who was pretty hard to beat under harness back in the day.

Right now I'm on Honor Roll with my 29.5 amateur senior gelding, and I know I'm kinda partial

But I think he's gorgeous

.Yes I believe the smaller ones have come along way in refinement and balance over the past 10-15 years.

Can't wait to see what this little guy does under harness. I'll be starting him after Worlds.

Beloveds Double Divine One 29.5