Yet another feeding question!

[O So]

First of all let me say Hi! I am somewhat new to mini's and currently only have one! I was raised around horses when I was younger but never a mini!

The previous owner of my mini said to "free feed" him as long as he was getting exercise! She also told me to give him a cup of grain twice a day. I am guessing that "free feed" is to just have hay in his feeder at all times?

Now about O So. He is a 2 year old stallion standing 28 inches tall. I am not sure of his weight yet. The vet papers that I got said 55 but I really think he is heavier then that! Don't know why they put 55 unless they actually didn't weigh him and just put a number in there! The PO took him to the vet to get his health check and coggins so I could bring him to CA! I bought him in OR.

The PO said she is having trouble getting him to gain weight. He also has a pot belly. Which will get bigger the more he eats, although it does go back down by morning with no hay are grass to eat! He was wormed about a month and a half ago by the PO.

I have had him for about a month now. I have only been feeding him about a flake a day of Orchard Grass Hay, plus the 2 cups of grain a day. The grain I am using is Omolene #100 Pleasure. I feed his flake a day in ration, meaning I give him 1/4 in the morning 1/4 in the afternoon and so on, to equal 1 flake!

When I first got him I didn't have my round pen set up so I was walking and in circles for about 15-20 a day. We would walk slow, then pick up the pace for a bit, then slow again. We did this in both directions. We did that 5 days a week. I take off the day's I have to sleep during the day which is only 2 days.

I now have my round pen set up and for the first time (yesterday) I was able to lunge him!! It is the first time since I have had him that I have gotten him to actually run!! I feel a lot better knowing I can give him the exercise he needs now! Because of being the first time I cut the session in half. I will slowly bring him up to 15 minutes of walking and running one way, then 15 of the same the other way. To total a 30 min. session.

I also am trying to train him to jump! During our exercise session I put 2x4s down to have him walk over. Eventually I will add another 2x4 on top to eventually get higher and higher! He does run and play every once in a while on his own during the day, but most the time he is idle!

Oh, I also turn him out in our grassy yard for about 1/2 the day give or take an hour or so! It is just normal yard grass (weeds and such) for now, but I have seeded it with pasture grass. When he is not in that yard, he is in a dry lot.

My husband thinks I am feeding him to much. I think I am not feeding him enough! I read other posts and find that people are feeding 2 flakes or more a day! I would think if I fed him that much his pot belly would quadruple! LOL

Here are a few pics of O So!

Couple days after I got him home!

Couple weeks later!

I loved this pic! Sad to say he has itched the middle section of his main down to nothing! It is starting to grow back slowly and we are working on his itchyness.

8/15/10. He is learning to load into my VW Bus. I don't do trailers to well, so we decided to make the bus his chariot! LOL Still need to build the "stall" that will be inserted in the bus so he can't pee or poop on the actual floor!

In that last photo you can see how big his hay belly was. I measured it at 47 inches a round. That was before his exercise for the day too. I measured him the next morning and it was only 44 round! I am using a sewing tape measure!

Sorry for such a long first post but I wanted to get as much info to you guys as possible.

Thanks for any advise you can give on feeding my little guy!

Kim

 

[ssshowhorses]

Personally, I would say that the one flake of hay a day is good. You should maybe keep him off of the grass a bit more, that may be causing the belly. The more exersize you do with him, the fitter he is going to be (obviously)! I would increase his grain intake, he is really lacking in weight arcoss his topline and upping his grain should help that. Other then that he is a cute little guy!

 

[O So]

Personally, I would say that the one flake of hay a day is good. You should maybe keep him off of the grass a bit more, that may be causing the belly. The more exersize you do with him, the fitter he is going to be (obviously)! I would increase his grain intake, he is really lacking in weight arcoss his topline and upping his grain should help that. Other then that he is a cute little guy!

Thanks! I was thinking about raising he grain! Just wasn't sure if I should! I was thinking of adding another cup a day, making it 3 cups of grain a day! You think that would be good for now or should I give even more then that? Obviously I can cut back if he shows signs of getting to fat!

Thanks

Kim

 

[Charlotte]

Well welcome to the wonderful world of minis and to the Forum! It's good to see you here!

Now about your little horse........We have a 25 1/2" 13 year old stallion who has been weighed at 125lbs. So your guy being around 28" should weigh quite a bit more.

From looking at the pictures (and I love silver horses by the way) I would say your boy is underweight by quite a bit. I can see his hip bones sticking out and his back bone sticks up. being underweight is the most common cause for 'pot belly' in miniature horses. It sounds like you have a good exercise plan and he is going to need increased nutrition to meet his energy needs while exercising.

If your hay has a lot of stems in it that increases the the pot belly. The stems are nondigestible fiber so he has a gut full of stems so to speak. But the bottom line is to get more weight on him. I would suggest a high quality feed with a vitamin/mineral pack in it. At his age I'd go with a 'junior' feed and feed him according to the recommendations on the bag, then if you want him to gain more weight, increase the amount. Weigh your feed. Easy to do with a cheap kitchen scale from WalMart or some such. So you aren't guessing.

You may see a lot of recommendations to add this supplement or that product to his feed, but unless you are an equine nutritionist you can really mess up his vitamin/mineral ratio and he's still a developing kid. It's easier and safer to go with a high quality feed and just use more or less of it to control his weight.

It may, or may not, take quite a while for the big belly to go down depending on how long he has been underweight.

good luck with your pretty boy!

Charlotte

 

[wingnut]

Welcome to the wonderful world of minis!!! I'm into my 2nd year and it's been quite the ride over the last 17 months or so

The pot belly, to my inexperienced eye, may have to do with lack of protein vs. too much to eat. I learned the hard way with my yearlings late last fall/early December (when they were weanlings). Once I adjusted their feed (Omolene 300 at the time) to a more appropriate measurement, the belly went away. They are not "Nationals" svelte, but they're not fat either.

Once they got to be yearlings, I switched them and our 2 yr old filly to Purina's Strategy. They spend about 6 hours in the pasture a day, split into two sessions (morning and late afternoon/evening 4hours/2hours). The 2 yr old is a super easy keeper and we keep her on a grazing muzzle during the long stretch we do in the morning.

The last thing to think about is that once winter comes you'll like want to increase hay significantly if you have harsh winters. The 2% of body weight "guideline" that is often given for minis goes out the window for us.

For reference:

Yearlings: 28-30" 164 and 182 lbs respectively, receive 1/2lb of Strategy 2x a day

2 yr old: 31" and 264lbs (should be more like 250), received 1/4lb of Strategy 2x a day.

11 yr old hard keeper: 33.75" and 197lbs, receives 3/4lb-1lb of Omolene 300 and 1/4lb Amplify supplement 2x a day. She is in need of more weight and this is what we found she will eat. It's slowly but surely building her back up from what she lost over the winter.

Last but not least, many people believe that purposely jumping or carting a horse before the age of 3 is not a good idea as their joints and whatnot are still developing and not ready for that kind of work. Opinions vary on the subject though!

Feeding a mini can be quite frustrating as you work you way through various trial and error processes. There are a dozen different ways to go about it and you'll get a lot of opinions and suggestions! It's all meant well, so take it in and sort it out for what best suits your boy.

Good luck!

 

[O So]

Ok, I just went out and weighed my cup of grain and according to a conversion chart, I am only feeding him less then a pound a day! Here is what the conversion said about my gram to pounds..... 338 g = 0.745162 lb OR 0 lb and 11.92 oz . 338 grams is 2 cups of my grain! I only have a gram scale right now! So I would think I need to raise his grain intake up quite a bit??

The junior grain, what brand name is that? I need to know what to tell the feed store!!

As far as the jumping. I am only having him walk over 2x4s laying on their sides. So he really isn't jumping! I just want him to get used to something in his path and to step over it! For now that is!!

Thanks for the help so far!!

Oh, What do you guy's think I should up his grain intake to? You think upping it to a total of one pound a day would be ok for starters? Or should I go up more?

 

[O So]

Here are a couple pics from today 8-17-10. One is a sun shot, one a shade shot!

 

[MOJO]

Hi and welcome to minis, they are wonderful animals. Have you had a vet out to check on your little fella? IMO I would do that first, a fecal should be run, some of the issues could be parasitic. People will tell you anything to sell a horse to you, if he hasn't been wormed as he should (if they think he weighs 55 lbs he may have been under dosed, this could be a cause of the itchiness, plus the coat appears a little dull on my computer. Please know it could just be my monitor not being keyed in as many others. He is underweight and getting the topline full will help, but please do your increases and changes slowly, they have very delicate digestive systems. Also if he were to be loaded with parasites dosing him strong can lead to a whole other list of issues and please be sure to never use Quest wormer on him...it has been linked to deaths, paralasis and blindness in minis.

These little guys take more feed than many think. I hear so many say they feed the cup twice a day, this is fine for a lot of them but not all and much depends on the level of work they are getting, the growth rate they are in and so on. The show horses I have worked with consumed a tremendous amount but they were in high level work also, now that mine are retired and on pasture the feed is minimal and we fight fat.

Good luck, there is a lot of great info to be found on this forum, lots of good people willing to share their knowledge also.

 

[chandab]

The junior grain, what brand name is that? I need to know what to tell the feed store!!

The Omolene 100 you are feeding is Purina, if you want to stick with Purina, then a junior feed would be either their Equine Junior (complete feed) or Omolene 300 (fortified sweet grain). Equine Junior is a complete feed (grain/forage in one), so it is high in fiber and fed at a higher level. Omolene 300 is a fortified grain, so lower fiber and fed at a moderate level.

Hope this helps a little.

And, welcome to the forum. [There is a search feature with the forum (top right), and if you enter feed or even the name of a particular feed, you will get tons of threads about different feeds and feed programs. Everyone has a different program that works for them.]

 

[midnight star stables]

Welcome

Got to run, but please make changes in grain very slowly! Over the course of a few weeks.

Best of luck!

 

[AnnaC]

Hi and welcome!

That's a nice little guy you have there.

As I live in the UK, I'm not famiiar with the names of the horse feeds that you have over there, but yes, I would suggest a good quality youngstock feed (grain) for him at least for the rest of this year. But remember that if you dont feed him the full recommended amount, then he will not be getting his full quota of minerals and vitamins etc., and you would then need to look into supplimenting these for him. His large belly is more likely to be due to lack of protein than to too much hay.

I would certainly get a full fecal test done asap as he may not hve been given the appropiate dosage of his previous wormers - and as suggested, please avoid Quest, no matter what your vet says!

I would go on allowing him access to the grass, remember that horses are trickle feeders and need to have small amounts of food passing through their systems almost continually if possible - standing for several hours with nothing to eat can cause problems with their digestions.

How big is your round pen? Going round in circles for their only exercise is not the best thing mentally or physically for a young horse. Can you take him out for long walks or do you have a large (and I mean LARGE) area when he can go and have a play, speed around, really stretch his legs, have a good roll and really get a sense of freedom that I feel is so important for any young horse.

Again welcome to LB - this is the best place to ask questions/learn lots about these wonderful mini horses. Good luck with your little man, as I said before, he's a nice looking little chap.

Anna.

ps. nothing to do with food etc, but it is best to avoid giving Bute to mini horses for pain relief and not all vets know this!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Looking at the pictures I would say he is definitely underweight by quite a bit, and the belly is fooling your husband into thinking he is fat?

I agree with the other suggestions people have made regarding feed etc, but would also add a few suggestions of my own.

He is entire, right now that is not a problem, in a few months, it will be!!

I would get him gelded ASAP.

Also, he is a horse, he needs company, can you find him a friend, if it is only for a visit, every day, so he remembers he is a horse and does not get too clingy with you??

Round pens are really no fun for a horse, he needs somewhere he can run and play and be a teenager, which is what he is, you may be able to combine this with visiting with other horses, which is pretty much essential!

You have, as many do, started the wrong way round, the proverbial cart before the horse, and got the horse before you have the facilities for him, this is not a huge problem at the moment, but it could become one very quickly if you do not plan ahead properly.

You have come to the right place, though, to get all the help you will need so Welcome ro the forum, stick around!!

 

[O So]

Ok, another question on the lines of gelding! I'm not saying I don't want to get him gelded! I do! So don't take this wrong, I'm just currious!

What if I don't get him gelded? How hard could he be to handle?? Reason I ask is because I read how people take their stallions to shows and show them! If they can handle them in a show ( being kept in a stall where they can smell the lady's), and leading them to the show ring around other horses. Why wouldn't I be able to handle him in the same type situation?

Yes, I got the cart before the horse! I will admit to that! He kind of fell into my arms your could say! He has room to run and buck and play. He just can't get to a full on gallop for a real long time! I have 3 lots, but they are all to small for a full on gallop. 2 lots are connected so he can go from one to the other when I have the gate open. The 3rd lot I have to take him to. I have seeded it with pasture grass so I can let my one lot grow while he is on the other!

As far as socialization. I am working on getting access to my local boarding stables! It is only down the road about a mile give or take! It has a larger round pen and also a huge indoor arena. I am hoping to get him into that arena at least once a week to let him really gallop! If all works out right, I want to eventually turn him loose in it and let him run on his own! This all depends on the 'gelding' thing though! I guess if he is to "study" I will have to change my plans until I can take care of his status! Oh, and yah, I know it can take up to a year to get that out of him once he is cut!

My neighbor volunteers at the stables I talk of, and she said I would probably be able to volunteer for the use of the facilities!! I am hoping so because I really enjoy horses and it will also give O So more socialization time!! If not I am willing to pay the fee to use the facilities there! (Sounds like I am going to the bathroom now! LOL)

Back on the gelding thing, my Dad who raised horses, said I should geld him too. Then he saw him and said, oh, you shouldn't have any problems with him. Meaning he (my Dad) thinks I should be able to control him! Oh, and I am 40, so don't misunderstand me when I say Dad!! LOL

My problem with getting him gelded, at the moment, is my husband!!! He is a pain! He thinks O So is worth more a stallion then a gelding! I don't think that way! Besides, it's not like we are going to stud him out. I will eventually prevail and get him gelded, but for now he has to stay a stallion! Divorce is not the way to go on this!! LOL I will win, just takes time!

I am currently trying to find a vet that will come to the house. My friend said she was going to give me her vet number but so far I haven't heard back! Guess I need to place another call! LOL Either that or maybe the stables will be able to hook me up! I'm waiting a call back from them too!

Thanks so much for all the help!

 

[AnnaC]

I applaud the way you appear to be trying to get everything organised for the best for your boy. I know it all takes time and adapting what you have or can get hold of to best suit both of you.

Just want to pick up on one thing you posted in your last post re the indoor arena. You hope to be able to use it to allow him to have a real good gallop around and then if it works ok you could let him loose in it? There is no way he will get anywhere near a gallop UNLESS he is loose anyway, and exactly how big is this arena? Most arenas are too small (in my opinion) to take the place of a suitable outside 'freedom' place, which should be (again my opinion!) at a minimum of half an acre, preferably much more. Horses are not only 'trickle' feeders, they are also built to run for miles if necessary, and it is this running that builds healthy lungs, bones, muscles and tendons. So please work on giving your little chap as much space as you can possibly give/find for his well being. Of course the best thing to encourage a horse to run and chase about is a companion!! They say that minis are like potato chips - one is never enough?? LOL!!

Anna

 

[O So]

I applaud the way you appear to be trying to get everything organised for the best for your boy. I know it all takes time and adapting what you have or can get hold of to best suit both of you.

Just want to pick up on one thing you posted in your last post re the indoor arena. You hope to be able to use it to allow him to have a real good gallop around and then if it works ok you could let him loose in it? There is no way he will get anywhere near a gallop UNLESS he is loose anyway, and exactly how big is this arena? Most arenas are too small (in my opinion) to take the place of a suitable outside 'freedom' place, which should be (again my opinion!) at a minimum of half an acre, preferably much more. Horses are not only 'trickle' feeders, they are also built to run for miles if necessary, and it is this running that builds healthy lungs, bones, muscles and tendons. So please work on giving your little chap as much space as you can possibly give/find for his well being. Of course the best thing to encourage a horse to run and chase about is a companion!! They say that minis are like potato chips - one is never enough?? LOL!!

Anna

The arena is huge! I have never seen one so big! They even have jumping rails (not sure of the right term for that) in there plus a ton of room on top of that! The wooden rails can be removed if you don't want them in there, so there is no danger there! I figured it would be a good spot to continue to teach him to jump, when the time comes! It is a lot bigger then what my parents had!I know that doesn't tell you guy's much! LOL I'm sure if a big horse can get up to a good gallop in there, my guy should have no problems at all! I will have to check with the other mini owners to see how they get their minis exercise!! I'm sure they have a routine there! I am hoping to meet the mini owners I hear they (the stable people) are thinking of putting a group together called Mini Ville! There are quite a few minis there!