Your thoughts on selling stallions...

[Lauralee]

This topic reminds me again of what is so UPSIDE DOWN about the miniature horse industry.

With "large horse" breeds, gelded young stock are worth MORE than ungelded colts. It costs to have them gelded and that is tacked onto the price.

With miniature horses, even if a breeder pays to have the colts gelded, they end up being regarded as "worth less" because they are not breedable!

This is backwards economics!

 

[nootka]

This topic reminds me again of what is so UPSIDE DOWN about the miniature horse industry.
With "large horse" breeds, gelded young stock are worth MORE than ungelded colts. It costs to have them gelded and that is tacked onto the price.

With miniature horses, even if a breeder pays to have the colts gelded, they end up being regarded as "worth less" because they are not breedable!

This is backwards economics!

This is what I've encountered in my attempts to sale my geldings, but I'm ok with it anyway...It only costs me $60 to geld (normal gelding), but then again noone wants to pay much for one, even one that is decent to very good show quality, and I had a hard time getting $1100 for a fully trained five year old perm. A/R gelding that was broke to drive and had been shown extensively as a stallion and gelding. (Oh and he cost me $240 for a single retained testicle to have him gelded). I had paid $1750 for him as a four month old colt. *lol* I THINK I lost a lil' money there...but don't tell my husband!

Liz M.

 

[Jill]

Strictly a theoretically question for me, as I am not a breeder, but if the seller feels the stallion is so incredible that he MUST remain a stallion, why are they not keeping him? It seems disingenuous to me to demand that a colt or stallion you are willing to part with remain intact.

I don't see myself feeling that way because at this time the ones I think MUST stay stallions are also staying (with me!). But, I can see it that someone may feel a horse should really stay a stallion but they have retained so many daughters, or that he's not the best match to their current mares -- I can see a breeder choosing to sell the horse and feeling he should remain a stallion.

Additionally, I can also understand a breeder feeling their colt is superior stallion quality and not being willing to give a gelding discount. I can understand why they'd stick to their guns if that's how they feel.

That said, I've gelded horses that were show stallion quality and that suited me (and them) just fine without any regrets.

 

[WeeOkie]

My 2 cents. :new_shocked: As everyone who really knows me, already knows, I love geldings! I would have to say that I agree with Lauralee--we mini people sure need to change our thinking about geldings (and their worth). Becky told me last year that I gelded one of the best colts I'd ever produced, but hey, I have a World Top Ten placque. :aktion033:

I believe a horse (especially a young one)) is worth just as much as a gelding as a stallion. I price the horse and do not give gelding discounts. My only concession is that I sometimes pick up the cost of the gelding procedure, if my vet does it before he leaves the farm.

Go Geldings!!!!!!!!!! And may you have the most wonderful life with other horses around, and not stuck off by yourself half of the time as a stallion.

Rita

 

[Bess Kelly]

For most sellers the major issue with those wanting to buy a stallion to geld IS THE FACT that most want a lowered price. Then the buyer proceeds to leave it a stallion

: and use for breeding. That happened only once to me. Now, if a "gelding discount" is asked/granted, the horse is fully paid for and gelded at their expense BEFORE he leaves, by my vet.

The fact that you would want to geld a horse currently a stallion, well that's not an issue for me. :aktion033:

 

[Warpony]

I've never understood the strong aversion to gelding. I'm a big fan of geldings, personally. I wish there were more around. Like many others I'd be looking at the quality of the home regardless of what they intended to do with the horse. However, I do think people should be able to pick and choose who they sell to, and if they want to sell only to a show home, etc that should be their right. That goes for gelding as well. I don't understand why someone would be bothered by a stallion going to a home where he will be a gelding as long as it is a good home, since no matter how great the horse is there is likely always a better horse out there who won't be gelded. It isn't like there is a shortage of quality stallions in the miniature horse world.

That said, I don't think sellers should be expected to discount the price of a stallion just because the person buying wants to geld him. If they want to do that then fine, but I don't think it should be expected.

 

[Humhill]

There as so, so many horses out there that people think are "great stallions" that are, in point of fact, very mediocre ones.

This is probably opening up another can of worms, and I'm getting out the flame-proof suit, but I agree 150% percent! I see stallions listed at stud that have qualities that should NOT be passed down or encouraged in the breed.

But, the reason this happens is because people don't ever stand their studs to the public. There are a lot of top notch stallions out there, but the owners keep them holed up at home making babies. The only way you can get a foal by them is to buy it from the owners. So, in order to breed the nice mare you have, you have to get your own stallion.

Now, if I was buying a colt with the intentions of gelding it, I would expect to pay a colt price. As the seller, you have the right to decide who you sell your horse too. But, after the horse leaves your hands, you have no control over what happens.

My personal motto:

The only thing mares are good for is to make geldings...

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Additionally, I can also understand a breeder feeling their colt is superior stallion quality and not being willing to give a gelding discount. I can understand why they'd stick to their guns if that's how they feel.

I have to say though part of the problem with this is that many breeders feel there colts are superior stallion quality and the truth of the matter is the majority are not.

First off even the most knowledgable breeder doesnt have the ablity to see in the future and really know how a colt will turn out. They have experience yes but.. that should tell them they can think it will be a wonderful horse but also tell them they cant be sure.

I just cant imagine someone being so set that there colt is not gelded that just doesnt make sense to me not for them as a farm and marketing, not for the breed as a whole.Gelding all your colts but say maybe 1 percent protects a stallion owners own market and interest I dont see why so many are againt it frankly from even strictly a marketing point of view I dont see how it can make sense any other way but to geld 99 percent of all colts that come from your farm

 

[Songcatcher]

My personal motto:

The only thing mares are good for is to make geldings...

In my opinion, you were doing real good until you came to that last line.

:

 

[susanne]

Just to clarify this quote of a quote of a quote...that was Jill's comment --my opinion was snipped (like so many stallions should be...) and only my name remained...

Additionally, I can also understand a breeder feeling their colt is superior stallion quality and not being willing to give a gelding discount. I can understand why they'd stick to their guns if that's how they feel.

I have to say though part of the problem with this is that many breeders feel there colts are superior stallion quality and the truth of the matter is the majority are not.

First off even the most knowledgable breeder doesnt have the ablity to see in the future and really know how a colt will turn out. They have experience yes but.. that should tell them they can think it will be a wonderful horse but also tell them they cant be sure.

I just cant imagine someone being so set that there colt is not gelded that just doesnt make sense to me not for them as a farm and marketing, not for the breed as a whole.

Jill, I agree that no one should ever feel obligated to give a gelding discount. If they believe in that particular horse and geldings in general, they certainly should not drop their price. And, of course, anyone can sell or not sell to whomever they choose.

But like Lisa, I don't understand anyone thinking their horse is too good to geld...or thinking they are doing anyone, especially the horse, a favor by insisting he remain a stallion at the expense of a good home.

 

[Sue_C.]

MY MOTTO....

"Stallions are from Mars, Mares are from Venus, Geldings are from Heaven"

:

:

: I love them all, but especially my geldings.

: I do have to say though, that of the very best driving horses I have had so far, one was a stallion, two are mares, and one a gelding, so the mares are one-up. :bgrin

 

[Jill]

I hear you and I personally wouldn't feel any of my horses, current or yet to be born, would be "too good to be gelded" if they were for sale. Just that I can see how some may have a preference that the horse remain a stallion and that's a valid point of view in some cases.

 

[Leeana]

IMO if a person is willing to pay the price you ask and its a good home, then i dont see why there would be any hard feelings.

Of course at the same time i con completely see why some breeders would WANT the stallion to be left a stallion for breeding. Of course if you really believe that stallion is the best out there then why wouldnt you keep it, if you want it to go on breeding and you think its a super stallion then keep it and breed it yourself. That is the only true way to insure that the stallion is going to go on to what you want it to do and be.

JMHO

 

[Ashley]

Nope, I sell most of my boys that way. I havent had one not follow through yet. Its pretty simple when they dont get the papers until they prove they are gelded. Would you not follow through and then end up with a grade horse?

 

[Wiggy]

I can definately understand selling a colt, as a gelding, to a home that is then going to show and promote the horse... that looks GREAT for the breeder and I would be all for that.

But what about... if the offer is from a "pet home"... they want to take your AWESOME stallion/colt and geld him just so they can have a cute pet? Does that change your opinions at all?

 

[disneyhorse]

Wiggy, I doubt that would happen as often. I don't know why someone would pay $7500 or more for a backyard pet.

Andrea

 

[Wiggy]

Andrea, that is very true.... but it did happen to me (not for $7,500 of course, haha).

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I can definately understand selling a colt, as a gelding, to a home that is then going to show and promote the horse... that looks GREAT for the breeder and I would be all for that.

But what about... if the offer is from a "pet home"... they want to take your AWESOME stallion/colt and geld him just so they can have a cute pet? Does that change your opinions at all?

Nope not one little bit for me personally.Lets be honest most horses in minis anyway show careers are short lived, and if someone wants a fabulous "pet" to hang out in there back yard well .. really what better represention of the breed to many newcomers who might have never seen a mini before until there friend brought them home to see the new one.

Bottom line for me is a good home that can be a show home , breeding home or pet home makes no difference at all which one I dont think any of the above are a "waste"

 

[Humhill]

In my opinion, you were doing real good until you came to that last line.

:

Hahaha, sorry, it's something my grandfather used to say. It was more in jest than seriousness...

Geldings are wonderful though, some of my best friends are geldings...

:

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

If you are selling a younger stallion (one with a Nationals show record and/or has proven himself by his offspring's show records), would you be offended or angry if someone emailed you and wanted him for a GELDING? Would you say "No thanks" or would you welcome those inquiries just like any other that came about wanting a stallion?

I wouldn't be offended at any inquiry for a good home for any of our horses. Now if they offered some unreasonablely low pet price, I wouldn't bend over backwards and jump for joy either!

Personally if I really felt he was that fabulous, I would probably work the deal to breed one more season, and then let him be gelded. But the reality is, there are very few minis, if any, that will cause our industry to grind to a halt if they were no longer producing - sentimental attachments aside!

I geld for a number of reasons, and I'm often slow to geld as I do have the space/luxury to think about it before making those appointments! We just did three last week and the vets even asked why I was gelding one of them as they really like him. I don't need them intact was my answer! These are a few we've gelded in the past year - not NC Champion's but I think nice quality. (these are all directly out of the pasture, no conditioning, grooming or clipping (well the bottom one my daughter was test clipping her boy!).

Go Geldings!!!