2-year-old colt

[FSGemstoneMiniatures]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to share a picture I took today of my colt, Jones Royal Kaleidoscope. He's turning two on April 15 and he's about 29.5". I'm planning on showing him this year, so would love to hear some opinions! But first want to mention:

* Excuse the horrible outfit. It was colder than I expected, so I borrowed an old sport outfit of my dad. Very fashionable.. lol

* Sorry, bad quality photo. My brother took it with his blackberry.

* It wasn't a good moment to take a picture. I had just lunged him, so he was really tired and not in the mood for showing. Oh, and he was way too relaxed, that's why "little Kaleid" is also in the picture.

Ok, here goes:

Things I feel need to improve:

* Why am I leaning over like that? Should keep my back more straight.

* That belly needs to go. Thinking of lunging him with belly sweat from now on.

* He's not giving me ears. Any tips on how to work on that?

Please feel free to be critical. I can take it. And if you feel he's not even show quality, just say so!

Thank you,

Eva

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Good lord, Eva, I think you're being way too hard on both him and you!

I'm all for constructive criticism and being honest with yourself about your horses but he looks very nice! For a horse who in your own words is tired, relaxed and "not in the mood" for showing he's standing there nicely balanced, arching his neck, ears are not pinned or even back, and he's certainly not overweight. Yes, he could be tucked up a little more and maybe it's the white marking making his neck look arched but hey, if so that will help in the ring as well.

He's a good-looking colt!

You're leaning over because he's freakin' TINY, that's why!

As far as getting ears, that was a complete mystery to me until last year but I'm beginning to figure it out. Teach him to freeze in place when you turn to face him with your shoulders squared and get so you can back off to the end of the lead. If he looks away, pop him lightly to get his attention back on you. Reward him for looking at you with his ears up and build the time he spends on a Whoa, Stand watching you alertly until he will do so until you "let him down." When he can do that, start moving in a half-circle around his front at the end of the lead and encourage him to track you with his eyes and ears without moving his feet. If he moves, simply reset him and start over. If his attention flags, jiggle the lead or make a noise and praise when he pricks his ears and focuses on you.

By this point he should be into the fun game you've created and watching you all the time so he can get that praise. Keep your sessions short so you don't frustrate him but practice in little spurts any time that seems good. Do it when taking walks on the road, when the dog is running around barking, when you take him into his stall for dinner. I'm a great fan of scritching my horses too- nothing perks a cranky horse up like a brief let down and scratch on the withers when the judge isn't looking!

Also, don't over-show him. So many people keep on harassing a horse who has its ears back hoping they can coax it into perking them and all you do is annoy the horse even further.

My mentors told me to keep a close eye on where the judges are and unless they are actively examining my horse, to stand quietly at the end of that lead and let the horse just watch me. He looks happy and interested, any judge that glances over gets a positive picture of an attractive horse, and when they get to us I step in a little, pick up light tension on my lead and ask him to hook. By that point he's dying to as he's totally curious about whether or not I've got anything and when I'm going to praise him!

This also helps teach you as a handler to stay out of his space and prevents perpetual leaning and grabby lips.

I wanted to mention also that Kaleid shares a birthday with both of my boys, Kody and Turbo.

There must have been something about tax day!

Leia

Edited to add: Also, when you step back to the front after a break make sure you aren't doing so with the unconscious attitude of "Okay, fun's over, back to work." Ugh! No wonder some horses don't like halter. When I step up there I approach it like I'm giving the horse the opportunity to play a game with me. I want him to feel the way a baby does when you put your hands up in front of your face for Peek-a-boo. "Oh boy! Oh boy! I must watch really closely because she's going to do that thing I like!" It not only makes them bright-eyed but the ears come naturally and it's more fun for everybody that way.

It's a waiting game though. You wait quietly and watch them, they get more and more intrigued and watch you, and when the judge looks over you make a very attractive pool of calm in an arena full of leaning, retreating, fussing, baiting horses. THEN you step up and knock 'em dead when you ask your horse to show!

 

[raine]

Hi,

I just wanted to say what a nice boy and he looks pretty good to me , im no show expert so there will be other people on here to help you with that sort of thing.

Good Luck..

 

[FSGemstoneMiniatures]

@Leia: Thanks so much for your advice! What you described sounds like a fun game even to me, and I won't be the one getting the praise.

Can't wait to try it. Small question, how exactly do you praise? Do you give a treat or do you praise with words?

@raine: Thank you! Just hoping to have a fun show season..

 

[hobbyhorse23]

@Leia: Thanks so much for your advice! What you described sounds like a fun game even to me, and I won't be the one getting the praise.

Can't wait to try it. Small question, how exactly do you praise? Do you give a treat or do you praise with words?

All of the above and then some.

I actually use clicker training and do most of this at liberty in small steps but you can easily do it with traditional techniques as well. (They may not participate quite as actively, but the general technique of getting them to stand and watch you is one I've gotten from many professionals.)

What I do when I'm not clicking is to wait until the horse does what I want (pricks the ears and watches me for a moment, for instance,) and then I immediately give verbal praise and a release of pressure as a reward. In this case it would be prick, wait a beat, praise and relax my own posture as I step aside and move in to rub and scratch their neck and shoulder for a moment. Then maybe a small goodie to munch on as I step away, then if it's a young or green horse I'll walk them around and set them up again in a new spot. I might only do it twice if they do it well! That way they learn that the sooner they're attentive and good, the sooner they don't have to do this nonsense. And hey! The person praises them, feeds them, loves on them, and tells them they're wonderful. What's not to like?

The next time they're like "Hey, I know what this game is! All I have to do is stand here and wait to be told I'm beautiful! Do you see me? Mom? Hey, Mom? Over here! I'm watching you. Do you see me? Mom? MOM!"

As they get the idea you can start getting firmer about resetting them when they break until the discipline is every bit as consistent as the praise. They know! I can really get after my almost-three year old now when he steps out of frame and he backpedals then immediately sets himself up, pulls himself up tall and tries harder the next time. He seems to take pride in showing off because he's been told he's wonderful and that he should be proud of himself. This is a horse who started out quiet and timid and very laidback. He's a little lion now and got my club's Year-End High-Point Amateur Halter Horse award last year!

You just have to set them up for success and make pleasing you something that they anticipate with enthusiasm.

I show for fun and it isn't fun for me if my horse is miserable or angry and I'm having to shank him all the time. Honestly I've always hated halter! But Turbo was too good not to show and too young to show anything but halter and liberty so I learned and found positive ways to accomplish the same things. Maybe he isn't always as amped up as some of the others, but he's happy to show for me and will still be happy to show years from now. And pride will do a lot to give them the same fire! He thinks he's all that and a bag of chips when he's really "on" now.

Leia

 

[Make A Wish Miniatures]

I think he is REALLY NICE, You are doing a great job. All he needs is to tuck up his belly a little. He has anice neck.

 

[Royal Crescent]

One of the things I learned at the seminar is that rather then sweating and starving off bellies, think of them in the context that starving children have big bellies. You may actually have to feed more to get a belly off. I think got it right. this came from Mike Rosauer

 

[jegray21]

All of the above and then some.

I actually use clicker training and do most of this at liberty in small steps but you can easily do it with traditional techniques as well. (They may not participate quite as actively, but the general technique of getting them to stand and watch you is one I've gotten from many professionals.)

What I do when I'm not clicking is to wait until the horse does what I want (pricks the ears and watches me for a moment, for instance,) and then I immediately give verbal praise and a release of pressure as a reward. In this case it would be prick, wait a beat, praise and relax my own posture as I step aside and move in to rub and scratch their neck and shoulder for a moment. Then maybe a small goodie to munch on as I step away, then if it's a young or green horse I'll walk them around and set them up again in a new spot. I might only do it twice if they do it well! That way they learn that the sooner they're attentive and good, the sooner they don't have to do this nonsense. And hey! The person praises them, feeds them, loves on them, and tells them they're wonderful. What's not to like?

The next time they're like "Hey, I know what this game is! All I have to do is stand here and wait to be told I'm beautiful! Do you see me? Mom? Hey, Mom? Over here! I'm watching you. Do you see me? Mom? MOM!"

As they get the idea you can start getting firmer about resetting them when they break until the discipline is every bit as consistent as the praise. They know! I can really get after my almost-three year old now when he steps out of frame and he backpedals then immediately sets himself up, pulls himself up tall and tries harder the next time. He seems to take pride in showing off because he's been told he's wonderful and that he should be proud of himself. This is a horse who started out quiet and timid and very laidback. He's a little lion now and got my club's Year-End High-Point Amateur Halter Horse award last year!

You just have to set them up for success and make pleasing you something that they anticipate with enthusiasm.

I show for fun and it isn't fun for me if my horse is miserable or angry and I'm having to shank him all the time. Honestly I've always hated halter! But Turbo was too good not to show and too young to show anything but halter and liberty so I learned and found positive ways to accomplish the same things. Maybe he isn't always as amped up as some of the others, but he's happy to show for me and will still be happy to show years from now. And pride will do a lot to give them the same fire! He thinks he's all that and a bag of chips when he's really "on" now.

Leia

Ok this makes halter sound sooo much more fun!

 

[LAZY J MINIS]

He is very nice, love markings, like royal cresent said feed him up and work out everyday. My guy gets 2 scoops morning and night and is worked 30 min. daily 15 each way. ps. my guy is 4-15-99. great horse.

 

[Reble]

Oh he is one of my favorite colors,

Nice young boy, the only thing I see wrong is yes, a little too relaxed..

 

[Helicopter]

Hey Leia, so excited.

I've just printed out your 2 posts. Where do I send the cheque for the lesson?

I can't wait to try it on my little scruffs.

Eva, I think your colt is very handsome. And Little Kaleid is adorable too.

 

[FSGemstoneMiniatures]

Thanks everyone on the advices!

Regarding to his belly: I did try to feed him more last year, but the only result was that he gained weight and the belly was still there. Ugh, so frustrating! I feel his weight is ok, but just want to see his belly more tucked up.. I have him on a deworming scheme my vet prescribed, so it shouldn't be caused by worms.

I let him work out everyday for about 20 min. He's still young, so I don't want to overwork him.

@Leia: I tried your technique this morning and like I expected, you made it sound easier than it is. My fault. I should have done this from the beginning.

I walk him, stop and step in front of him at the end of the rope. He stays in place, but his attention is all over the place, except where it should be. He's constantly looking around. I tried to wait until he looked at me, but that took a while. I really got the impression he was trying to ignore me. Next, I tried to jiggle the rope every time he looked away, but he was not impressed. He just tried to bite the rope because it was annoying him.

And when he does look at me, he looks bored, like: "Ok, this is what you wanted, I'm looking. Can we now please stop, so I can continue my nap?" He doesn't prick his ears, he doesn't look interested.. He doesn't get the game!

By the way, looks like a lot of horses are celebrating their birthday today!

Eva

 

[kaykay]

The smaller minis are more difficult to keep tucked up. I do not think is belly is due to not having enough feed as his back is nice and flat. Sometimes with the little ones you have to decrease hay and increase feed just a bit and then you get that tucked up look. Be careful too because many lose weight just on the trailer ride and the stress of a show. I have a filly I have to have a bit pudgy because she will drop once we get to the show.

Since he is so little, bend your knees more and keep your back upright. This way you hare not hanging over him and blocking the judges view. You are also too close to him. Take at least 3 steps back.

Ears: never never treat a horse with it's ears back or you train them to pin their ears

When practicing as soon as you see the ears go forward get the treat in their mouth so they associate the two together. Even when I play with show horses in the pasture; they have to bring their ears forward and then they get a treat. After just a few times they will immediately put their ears forward. Jet used to set himself up out in the pasture in anticipation LOL.

When you are actually showing you are always going to trot first then line up. Mine are trained that as we trot, I make them loop around me so they end up with me in front of them. Hard to describe in type but that is their cue that its time to set up. Even when practicing at home practice the trot first, then set up. Because that is what will happen in a real show. Then when the judge is done and I am standing next to them, they know to relax.

 

[SampleMM]

Are there any trainers where you are? If so, that is what I would recommend. In my opinion, a professional can get quicker/better results. Some horses just don't have the attitude and won't give you their ears for anything. Below is an example of my show filly after three weeks with a trainer. Your colt is gorgeous and I'm sure it will all come together. I just personally think it comes together easier with the help of a professional.

I wanted to add that this mare is only 27" and her stomach is pretty tucked up.

 

[targetsmom]

Eva-

I loved your colt when Elaine had him for sale and I still love him!!! I am also glad you posted because I have been showing for years and I am learning TONS from the comments made on here. Maybe I can start liking halter too. You and he are looking so much better than we did when we started out. The bending over and standing too close are extremely common "rookie" mistakes.

Good luck with him... Oh, yes, and try to teach him to put little Kaleid away on cue!

 

[wcr]

You have a very lovely boy and the biggest problem with him is he is young and he's a boy. It's time for him to put his big boy pants on cuz there's work to be done. When I was showing paints and doing showmanship, you wanted them to watch what you are doing with your body with minimal cueing so it looked like they are responding on their own. It makes a crisp, clean pattern. One exercise I did was walk, say whoa and take 2 steps(it takes this long for the cue to reach their brain and respond) then stop. Make it a game. It keeps their attention and teaches them to respond to your body language.

Progress to whoa, stop, cue for a back up and back up. Turn forward and cue for the walk off. They should walk off right away and don't stop to see if they are walking with you. You need to just turn, cue, walk off like you know they are coming with you. As they "get" it, speed it up, make it a game, throw in different cues so they don't get bored and anticipate what you are doing. His attention can't wander when he is trying to keep up with what you are doing. I want to be the most fascinating thing in their life and they need to pay attention to what I'm doing, especially if they are a stallion.

He's young so don't just pound it in over and over. Stop and praise him often with scratches and "good boy" and totally relax. The verbal "good boy" is as important and scratches and treats. When you are in a show ring you can't be scratching and giving treats every time he does something correctly. But if you say good boy during training at home, he will know when he has done something right when you say good boy for those times you can't do anything else. It also has a calming affect in the show ring when he might start getting frustrated or a little hot. It is human nature that when we want them at their best to get a little tense and they pick up on it and start getting tense also. We need to take a deep breath and relax at those times. Get a little softer in your body language to diffuse the situation. Remember he has learned body language if you have done your homework.

For someone just starting out to train their horse or show their horse, to me, the most important thing you can do is learn showmanship and in hand trail. Trail is just showmanship with obstacles. Halter is showing your horse to their best advantage emphasizing the good and minimizing the bad which equals showmanship. Trail is basic ground manners. Everything goes hand in hand and if you build a good foundation on your horse you will have a well mannered horse that you can use in several different classes, be versatile and a pleasure to be around.

 

[FSGemstoneMiniatures]

@Kay: Thank you! I will definitely try to keep those things in mind. Sigh, wish I could be as good as some professionals out there.. Would you recommend using a belly sweat when working out? I wouldn't want him to lose weight on his topline, just want to get rid of the hanging belly.

@SampleMM: There are very few trainers around here. I did contact a good one somewhere around November and I didn't really think he would accept Kaleid. This is because of the fact that there are so little good trainers around and thus they can accept or reject any horse they want, since they have plenty to choose from. Man, I was so excited when he told me he would take him!!! But, unfortunately my dad doesn't believe in the professional showing, advertising, etc. He thinks it isn't worth the money. So I would have had to pay for it myself. I seriously thought about it.. But you have to know I'm still a student (4th year university) and my dad officially owns Kaleid, so I thought it would be better to save the money, since I wouldn't be able to advertise and promote him in the way I would like.

By the way, your mare is so beautiful!! Wow, look at those pretty ears..

Now, why can't Kaleid just do that when I want him to? He can do it, I know, I can see it twice a day at feeding time. At those moments I'm suddenly the center of his universe..

@targetsmom: Thanks! I loved your Max so much.. He was so beautiful! Wish I could get Kaleid in the same shape.

Oh, and how do you teach them to do that on cue?

@wcr: Thank you for the tips! You are right, he's not interested in me, so I should make it more intesting. Boys..

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Way to go, WCR!!

You had some really good points and I got some ideas for my own weak area, which is leading manners. Thank you!

@Leia: I tried your technique this morning and like I expected, you made it sound easier than it is. My fault. I should have done this from the beginning.I walk him, stop and step in front of him at the end of the rope. He stays in place, but his attention is all over the place, except where it should be. He's constantly looking around. I tried to wait until he looked at me, but that took a while. I really got the impression he was trying to ignore me. Next, I tried to jiggle the rope every time he looked away, but he was not impressed. He just tried to bite the rope because it was annoying him.

And when he does look at me, he looks bored, like: "Ok, this is what you wanted, I'm looking. Can we now please stop, so I can continue my nap?" He doesn't prick his ears, he doesn't look interested.. He doesn't get the game!

... He can do it, I know, I can see it twice a day at feeding time. At those moments I'm suddenly the center of his universe..

...

@wcr: Thank you for the tips! You are right, he's not interested in me, so I should make it more intesting. Boys...

Here is where we start with the discipline part. He's looking around because you're letting him. It took my halter friends awhile to get it through my head that this is equine disrespect! They're right though- he's ranking you below every single thing around him. Turbo would NEVER dare take his eyes off Kody if they were face to face! He's always watching that boss horse to see what he wants him to do. Sure they can stand side by side and be buddies, but if the boss hoss is in that power position Turbo is asking which way to jump and how fast.

Since I had not been doing it correctly from the beginning and he was doing a lot of walking forward and crowding me in-hand my mentor had to have a "Come to Jesus" meeting with Turbo and then show me how to reinforce it. Every time he took his attention off of me, he got a single hard pop of the lead to refocus him. If he ignored me completely and tried to walk over top of me he got a pop, a knee in the chest and whatever else it took to get him to backpedal 90 miles an hour until I said "stop." It wasn't fun and neither of us liked it, but if I'd been doing it correctly from the beginning it wouldn't have been necessary. My bad!

So two-fold answer here- 1) Don't let him get away with ignoring you. He looks away, the sky falls in on him for a few moments. Make him back up in a rush! Guarantee you those ears will be up for a moment when you ease up again and you can praise and relax. There should be a clear contrast: ears up = praise and release of pressure, ignoring you = the sky falls in. He's respectful, you're his best buddy and life is great. He blantantly ignores you, he gets reminded fast who's the boss hoss.

Once the groundwork is set you can give him a warning and only have to rush him if he doesn't pay attention. And he should be reacting like you've rushed him- I learned the hard way that simple backing up just doesn't carry the same weight with horses. When my Arab asserted his superiority, when Kody corrects Turbo, both pin their ears and lunge and the other horse whirls or flies backwards to get out of the way. If they don't move fast enough the dominant horse will nail them until they learn better. If he isn't doing that when your body language says he crossed the line, he isn't giving you credit for being The Alpha. The Alpha should eventually be able to move the other horse with just a slight tightening of her ears.

Now #2 is to approach things from the other end. When you're out in his paddock just spending time with him, get him to put his ears up for a box of tictacs or a dandelion or treat or whatever works. Make use of how he is at feeding time. He does not get his food until he gives you ears, just one shining moment of bright-eyed interest. Then praise and toss kibble! As KayKay said, don't ever give him food when his ears are back even if it means you have to drop something to make a loud noise or otherwise startle him to get them.

I start relating that behavior to a cue and then asking them for ears in the paddock when we're not formally posing so they learn that giving ears almost always gets them a treat. This is where I'll use the clicker as they get very excited about figuring out which behavior made the "vending machine" distribute food. They can't believe all they have to do is look cute and I'll stuff them with goodies!

If I had a baby I'd simply start them out this way then move to the lead work and with a few mild pops to establish that looking away is not what we're doing right now, I'd have them giving ears. Unfortunately you'll have to go at it from two perspectives just as I did with my two year old- 1) correct the disrespectful behavior he's giving you right now, and 2) establish a positive cue for showing off. Once the disrespectful behavior is gone you can ask for the positive behavior in the vacuum it's left behind and praise, praise, praise.

Leia

 

[FSGemstoneMiniatures]

Hi Leia,

You really nailed it: he doesn't respect me. I'm learning so much from this thread!! Thank you!

Okay, this is what I did this morning: I took him out and tied him for a moment to go and get some treats. When I came back, he was looking at me with a very interested look on his face and ears pricked, so I immediately praised him. Because this is what I want, right? Then I went for a walk and made him stop at some point, I didn't set him up, but went to stand in front of him. He was looking at me and didn't move, so couldn't punish him, but no ears. I had a little box in my pocket that I used to make some noise, and right up went those ears! Good boy!! Some scratches and treat.

I walked him a little further and repeated the process. By the third time, he definitely looked more interested from the beginning, it was like he was waiting for the funny noise and the praise that would follow. I repeated this one more time after I did set his feet. And then I put him back in.

This beginning wasn't too bad, was it?

Okay, I know I'm not yet at that point, but how can I replace the noise of the box by a cue? Will he eventually prick his ears without the box and do I just have to be patient?

Thanks again!

Eva

 

[kaykay]

I am all for people showing their own horse. You will have a blast and by showing and watching other people you will get better.

I really do not think his tummy is that bad. I also think if you move his front legs out just a tad the belly will go up.

We need new closer up pictures.

I also want to say before I train a horse for halter they are trained to stand tied. this teaches them patience and manners. So be sure he knows to do that and knows voice commands for walk, trot whoa.

You are on the right track with the ears but dont get to obsessed with them and dont over practice them. Eventually they get to where all you have to do is put your hand up and they prick their ears forward.

I cant emphasize enough though that you do need to practice trotting first then setting up. He has to associate the whole thing together because that is how it will be in a real show.