2-year-old colt

[hobbyhorse23]

You are on the right track with the ears but dont get to obsessed with them and dont over practice them. Eventually they get to where all you have to do is put your hand up and they prick their ears forward.

I ditto Kay!

Remember- just as a headset is an incidental result of proper use of the topline, ears are an incidental result of the attitude we want. If your horse is interested and paying attention, the ears will come. Don't focus solely on the ears as you'll be missing the forest for the trees!

Okay, this is what I did this morning: I took him out and tied him for a moment to go and get some treats. When I came back, he was looking at me with a very interested look on his face and ears pricked, so I immediately praised him. Because this is what I want, right?

Definitely praise verbally for any bright-eyed look, but if you can pause for a moment as you see him do that and pull yourself up into your own show pose it will be even better. He should get the idea that if you hit your pose, he should hit his and then there will be praise. "Me, you, yeah! Good boy! Now a little faster...Yeah! That's it! Again!" (Keep in mind the repetition part is only after he really understands what you're asking.)

Then I went for a walk and made him stop at some point, I didn't set him up, but went to stand in front of him.

Always set up first. You're building skills here- first set your feet, then stand without moving, then give attention. Last and least, hook the neck. One skill layers onto the next onto the next to produce the finished picture. I teach setting the front feet and standing without moving simultaneously as a part of obstacle and showmanship training- the kids both know that when I stop and hold myself in a certain posture, they should immediately set their feet and be prepared to stand when I add the verbal command. The picture is walk next to the horse, say "Whoa" and as the horse stops you turn towards their shoulder. They quickly set the feet (hind first, then front) and as soon as they are square I say "Good. Whoa, Stand" and turn to face the judge if it's showmanship or the horse if it's halter. It should only take a moment and be one smooth movement.

He was looking at me and didn't move, so couldn't punish him, but no ears. I had a little box in my pocket that I used to make some noise, and right up went those ears! Good boy!! Some scratches and treat.I walked him a little further and repeated the process. By the third time, he definitely looked more interested from the beginning, it was like he was waiting for the funny noise and the praise that would follow. I repeated this one more time after I did set his feet. And then I put him back in. This beginning wasn't too bad, was it?

Not at all! That's great.

...how can I replace the noise of the box by a cue? Will he eventually prick his ears without the box and do I just have to be patient?

Try to use a noise you make yourself first, only resorting to the box if you have to. Some people make a little hissing noise, some a kiss, some a word like "Ears." It's whatever gets that particular horse's attention. Lots of people use peppermint candy wrappers because their horse associates that noise with a food he likes but be wary of overusing a novelty noise he simply hasn't heard before. It will soon lose its interest.

I would work on two separate things right now. Do the showmanship stuff WCR talked about and teach him to set up and then stand there. Don't worry about asking for ears in that context. If he gives them, great. He probably will once you've started walking around his front end at the end of the lead and popping him when he looks away. Those are respectful ears, paying attention ears. They are a side effect. At the same time but separately, ask him to give ears in the context of getting his dinner, begging for goodies or just being cute while you're out with him. These are "gimmie ears." Give me the goodie, give me the interesting object, give me give me give me!

He isn't allowed to mug you, in fact he shouldn't be allowed to lean towards you in any way. This is best done over a fence or stall door or while tied up as you did yesterday. He gives ears, you mark the moment of best googly-eyes with a crisp "Good! Good boy!" and a treat. Then relax. Don't ask again, just notice when he does this and play with how long you can get him to give you that expression. This part is a game! But it's a game he initiates. You don't ask him for them, you notice when he gives them and then give him an opportunity and encouragement to do it again. If he gets bratty and starts putting his ears back, game over! Nobody gets to have any fun when there are crabby-ears around.

Depending on his mental maturity he should pick up both these skills pretty quickly if you're consistent and then you can start combining them. Walk or trot, stop, set, whoa-stand, turn to face and give attentive ears. When you put up your hand in the halter baiting pose they will probably turn to gimmie ears and he'll hook his neck. Don't let him move or lean though, and only ask for the neck for a moment at a time! That is the last step and you shouldn't be asking for it until he's rock solid on the foundation skills. Getting that hook is easy and shouldn't be practiced more than occasionally as you'll lose their interest.

I can't emphasize enough though that you do need to practice trotting first then setting up. He has to associate the whole thing together because that is how it will be in a real show.

I would definitely practice the entire pattern at some point before the show but disagree about it being essential. I want that horse to set up any time I face him no matter what preceeded it. Adding trotting instead of walking is just another step in upping the difficulty and should be done when the horse is ready for it IMO. Not before.

I wish Mominis or some of our other self-training halter people would come in here! I've still got lots more to learn too and would love their input.

Leia

P.S.- I agree, his belly is fine. Just keep working him as you have been and it will come up. When he goes to hook his neck he will tighten his abdomen on his own anyway.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

An excellent post with TONS of awesome information!

I'm learning lots from reading this.

I think your boy is very nice and will probably do very well in the ring - even without a trainer. The things I really like about him are his topline, level croup and hip. I can't really see his head since the pic is so far away but he looks to have a nice neck and his markings will make his neck look even thinner and longer than it really is so that's to your advantage. And I agree with Kay, try to bend at the knees more but maintain a straight back. I know from from experience that is easier said than done with the tiny ones!

Good luck with him. I think you'll have a blast and be pleasantly surprised!

 

[kaykay]

I would definitely practice the entire pattern at some point before the show but disagree about it being essential. I want that horse to set up any time I face him no matter what preceeded it. Adding trotting instead of walking is just another step in upping the difficulty and should be done when the horse is ready for it IMO. Not before.

I totally get what you are saying. I have just seen so many newer people go to a show and the horse has never practiced the whole thing, just trained to stand---so when they get to the show the horse is just lost with the trot and then setting up. Some horses (if they havent practiced) get really riled up with that trot and everything just seems to go out the window.

Mine are trained that the whole thing is one big cue. Its hard to explain in type but if it ever stops raining I will video it.

Another tip is do not obsess over leg placement. Once the judge is there looking--do not get down and try to set the legs. Just show him the best you can with what you have. This is why its so much better to train them to set their own legs by using the halter (not sure how you trained yours)

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Some horses (if they havent practiced) get really riled up with that trot and everything just seems to go out the window.

So true!!

I practice with mine all the time and it doesn't matter- first class in the ring, BOOM!! His little head explodes and he forgets everything he's ever learned.

I'm going to practice some of the techniques Mike Roseaur (sp?) has on the Stars Miniatures website and see if we can't get some better leading going by the first show. Practice helps, so does remembering to breathe as WCR said. That saved me several times last year- I could feel him puffing up because I was so tense so I took a deep breath and reminded myself all I had to do was walk and trot my darn horse and suddenly it was much easier to relax. He deflated like a hot air balloon and all went well. Phew!

Mine are trained that the whole thing is one big cue. Its hard to explain in type but if it ever stops raining I will video it.

I think we should get a little video how-to thing going! I'll get some of mine if you will, Kaykay. Anybody else?? I know I'd love some tips from experienced handlers.

Another tip is do not obsess over leg placement. Once the judge is there looking--do not get down and try to set the legs. Just show him the best you can with what you have. This is why its so much better to train them to set their own legs by using the halter (not sure how you trained yours)

Coming from big horses the handsetting thing drives me crazy. As someone said recently on FB, they are HIS legs, he can darn well set them himself! LOL! I've taught my colt to let me set his legs just in case of emergency but most of his schooling has been geared to setting them off my body language. I want to be able to lean just slightly so and push with my energy thus and have him set up.

Leia

 

[kaykay]

I think we should get a little video how-to thing going! I'll get some of mine if you will, Kaykay. Anybody else?? I know I'd love some tips from experienced handlers.

Oh this could be way fun! I love my dang flip cam lol. My daughter says I have gone flip cam crazy.

So fun to see how others do it. I know I am constantly picking up new things from watching other people.

But as said we are flooding like crazy and it has been raining here for days. Ughh.

My horses are not clipped yet so no making fun of winter woolies (or my winter woolies lmao--yep I wintered over well)

 

[hobbyhorse23]

*snort* Both of mine are in full winter glory right now, my redhead looks like he swallowed a beach ball and the colt is about as unpreposessing as they come. Today was fabulous, weather-wise, but of course I was working and when I'm supposed to be rough-clipping tomorrow they're predicting thunderstorms and sleet.

Oh well! I was going to have Mom get some video anyway so I knew what to work on and I'll post that as soon as I get it. Start a new thread when you get yours, KayKay! You'll probably beat me to it.

Leia

 

[Mominis]

I have a different approach to training a halter horse than has been mentioned so far in this thread. But then again, training methods are like foreheads, everyone has one. In the end, if the horse gets where you want them to be using the method that you choose, then you're doing it right.

Everyone has given you good advice here, best of luck with your colt!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Aw, Mimi, you're such a tease!! Come on girl, I was hoping for a refresher on how you do it.

Leia

 

[jegray21]

we will look past the winter woolies! video's would be great

Mickey gets the feet, and the standing but no idea how to hook the neck?

 

[FSGemstoneMiniatures]

This is such a great topic! Really glad I started it. Good thing there are lots of experienced people to teach the newbies like me!

@Leia: Okay, two things to work on. I can do that! Little question, though. If I've set him up and he's paying attention, but not pricking his ears (not pinning them back either), what do I do? Do I praise him for paying attention and not looking around even if his ears aren't in the right position? Or am I giving him conflicting signals at that point?

Oh, and I would love to see some videos!!!

 

[Mominis]

Alright, Leia....you asked for it....

I train our halter horses using a four step system, which takes about 120 days to get down fully, including conditioning. The first step is setting the hind end. This is how we do it.

I begin by taking the horse out of the stall in a normal stable halter and lead and walking beside him, I say 'hey' and that is his cue to stay put. I then walk to the end of the lead and say 'whoa!' Do not jerk the lead on your whoa cue and keep your hand at belt buckle level for this. I ask the horse to hold that for three seconds and then I walk wide around to the shoulder, give him a cookie and back him up. If he moves a HIND foot while in his 'whoa,' I snake the lead (move it side to side so that it bumps him and this does not have to be done vigourously to get the correction needed, but you can increase the snaking if the horse just ignores it to make it a larger correction). The backing teaches him to NEVER walk forward out of a whoa. Once that is accomplished, I increase the time the horse has to hold the 'whoa' to 5 seconds, then 10, etc. I don't care, at this point, if the horse is looking at me or not (they usually don't), for all I care, he could be reading a magazine. The "look at me" comes later. If he moves a front foot in the whoa, ignore it for now. That comes in step 2.

Once the horse is holding the whoa well, I then start to walk him up into the whoa. This means that I put him in the 'hey' (a comepletely different cue than the whoa, think of it as a halter half-halt. It just tells him that something is about to happen), hesitate in the regular whoa posiotion, but don't tell him to whoa. Then, cluck and ask him to walk forward as you walk backwards in front of him. Often they are hesitant to do this, having just learned that they are to 'whoa' when you are facing them. Cluck, encourage, and even move side to side to untrack them. Many times, we will spend a day or even two just walking up and down the schooling area like this so they learn that it is okay to walk forward. If they walk up on you and do not give you the appropriate space (which doesn't happen often), just flip your lead upward in the air to make a 'snake' vertically. This will usually fix the problem of the over-eager walker.

When he is freely walking with you, ask for that whoa. It should be crisp and at this point, you don't care where the hind legs land or how they are positioned. After each whoa, give him a cookie and back him about 3 steps. They soon learn to relax on the back cue and will start to chew and take a deep breath when they are asked to back. Work at the whoa until the it happens crisply every time. If the horse walks forward out of the whoa, snake the lead and make a little noise at him. I use a hissing sound, but whatever works for you will do. DO NOT jerk on his lead. Your body language should be plenty enough to get the job done. Keep going at this for at least three sessions until you know that the horse is not just having a good day, that he actually 'gets' the lesson of halting crisply before moving on to step 2, which I will explain in a later post, if you are interested in hearing it.

Once the horse 'gets' this, you can start playing with when to give your whoa cue so that he halts either in a split behind (the legs one ahead of the other) or is square behind. It is a good idea to make your horse adjustable just as soon as he understands that whoa means whoa. This way, no matter what the judge that you show under is looking for in a stance, you can give it to them.

I am the one that Leia quoted from facebook saying, "They are HIS legs, he can doggone good and well set them himself!" I don't bend over to set my horses' legs. I teach them to set them themselves and to be adjustable enough that I can put each leg where I need it for maximum show-ability. Step 2 involves the beginnings of foreleg placement.

Hope this helps.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

we will look past the winter woolies! video's would be great

Mickey gets the feet, and the standing but no idea how to hook the neck?

Hoping we get some other folks chiming in here. My understanding is if you teach them not to move the feet and not to lean, they should hook the neck to gain more reaching length as they try to check out whatever they think you've got. Some people start the horse reaching lower and then bump them back and up, others I've talked to want the horse to start out upheaded and staring and then offer a target lower so they'll hook that neck to come down to it. I'm lucky because both my boys have very clean hooky throatlatches so it isn't hard to get that hook from them. The hard part is keeping them from leaning!

If I've set him up and he's paying attention, but not pricking his ears (not pinning them back either), what do I do? Do I praise him for paying attention

To my way of thinking if his ears aren't at least forward, he isn't really paying attention. Sometimes they're in a bad mood and it simply isn't going to happen, and I'll admit I'm still playing around with what to do in that circumstance. If it happens in the ring I'll either escalate and bring out something new and interesting if the judge is actively examining us or if they're not I'll stand him down for a minute and scratch his withers to mentally reset him. When we're home and working so far I'll generally go to backing or pivoting or other showmanship work that forces him to give ground to me respectfully and usually when I set him up again he'll give me at least quick ears. Then I can quit on a good note. Kay, what would you do here? Anyone else?

Alright, Leia....you asked for it....

...before moving on to step 2, which I will explain in a later post, if you are interested in hearing it.

Yes, yes I did. And of course we want the whole program!!

As others have said, we can always pick up useful tips watching (or in this case, "listening") to other people work even if it's completely different from our own system.

Leia

 

[kaykay]

Regarding getting a neck to hook. First thing is - if the horse does not have a "hooked" neck you cannot get it. You have to deal with what the horse has.

Many newer show people rubber neck or put the neck in a straight line. You want to bring the nose down slightly (not in a straight line and not up in the air either)

This stuff is just so hard to explain in type LOL

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Regarding getting a neck to hook. First thing is - if the horse does not have a "hooked" neck you cannot get it. You have to deal with what the horse has.

Yes and no, IMO. You cannot give a horse a hooky neck, but any horse can make the neck telescoping gesture. (Google this term and see if anything comes up by Dr. Deb Bennett.) It is definitely harder to get some horses to use their topline than others; that is why so many minis are sweated- to clean up that "hinge" behind the jaw so they can flex it.

I'll see if I can post pictures of Kody hooked and not hooked so you can see what the gesture looks like. He is NOT a halter horse and his neck is very lowset, but he does a great hook when you have something he wants!

Leia

 

[Mominis]

Step 2 is the most training intensive step of the whole system. Make sure step 1 is SOLID before starting this. Then give the horse a break from the step 1 lessons while you are introducing the Step 2.

Take the horse out in a regular stable halter and lead. step to his left shoulder facing him. Keep his head straight and ask for a ' quarter turn on the haunch,' while making a kissing sound, you may have to help him by putting your finger into his shoulder to remind him to move away.. That's in quotes because it doesn't have to be a showmanship turn, the horse doesn't need to plant the hind leg, he just has to give you that quarter turn on your kiss sound. Keep working with this until the quarter turn happens off of just the kiss. I always start on the horses' left side, because most horses get it easier this way, but do work this in both directions.

Once this is solid (takes several schooling sessions), get out in front of him in a 'hey' stance. Take a step to the left and kiss. Usually, you will have to tug gently on the lead to move the horse over. In the very beginnings of this, like the first few lessons, don't get too worried if a hind foot moves. He's in a 'hey' not a 'whoa'so that's okay. If he moves even one foreleg, give him a cookie and back him up as a reward. Then go back to it. You may go through several days where all you get is movement of just one foot. That's fine. Once you know he has it, then ask for both to move left. After he has this down pat to the left, repeat to the right, again giving yourself greater mobility in the ring.

The next part asks him to move the front feet forward, rather than to the side. Step back away from the horse while he's in his 'hey' and kiss while giving the gentle tug forward. Again, if only one foot moves forward, it's cookie and back time. Keep working at it until you can get both front feet to move forward, then cookie and back. If he is wanting to walk forward on you, remind him 'hey' and snake/hiss at him.

After you get that over a period of several schooling sessions, put him in a 'whoa' and ask for the front feet to move. If a back foot moves, snake the lead at him and make the hiss sound, as in step one. He'll get the idea pretty quick. Once he is okay doing this stationary, then start walking him up into the whoa and ask for the front feet, cookie and back with each attempt. Once he has that down, you can begin working on the length of stretch you want him to have. You walk him up, whoa, and set the front feet as near or far from the hind as you like. This gives you an advantage with judges that like the horses a little more or a little less parked out.

As I mentioned, this is the most time consuming of all of the steps. It reinforces step one and teaches the horse to move his body, By moving his forehand independently of the hind, he's also learning to shift his weight while holding still, which will come in very handy in step 3.

If you'd like, I can go into step 3 later tonight or tomorrow morning.

 

[ClickMini]

MoMinis, that is awesome. I want all four steps. You should do some videos to sell! Your detail is excellent! I would buy!

For people that are interested in yet another way to get ears/happy faces, here is a fantastic, detailed article about clicker training it. http://equineclickertraining.com/articles/ears_forward_new.html

To my mind, the more ways you have to ask your horse to do something, the better off you are. Also, generalize on your location as soon as your horse is solid. Take it on the road, even if it is to another spot on your own property, down the road, or at your friend's stable.

 

[Mominis]

Thanks, ClickMini! That's very flattering.

So, on to Step 3.

Do not begin this step until your horse is 100% solid in steps 1 and 2, because we are going to shelf those steps for a couple of weeks to keep him from getting confused. Again, all you need is a regular stable halter and lead.

Step out in front of him in a 'hey.' Now, this goes back to why is it SO important in steps 1 and 2 to keep your lead hand at belt buckle height, I can't stress that enough as the horse will only be confused on this step if you've had your lead hand up in the air during steps 1 and 2 (I'm digressing again, sorry). So, you have the horse in a 'hey' and you are going to do somethng he's already familiar with, but you will be adding another cue to it as well. Stand there and 'get big' at him draw yourself up to your full height, take a deep breath, slowly raise the lead hand (no snaking the lead this time) and hiss softly at first and increasing the volume of the hiss until you get a response. This is the same hiss you've been doing in steps one and two when you've snaked your lead at him. You have already taught him to back away from the hiss and the snaking, so you have to make this hiss a bit softer so that he dosn't start heading backward. All you want him to do is lean his bodyweight back and raise his head.

When a horse backs away from something they are "looking at" in the pasture, they raise their head, ears and eyes are completely focused on it, and they shift the weight back, just naturally. We are giving them a cue for this now. If you 'overhiss' and the horse takes a few steps back, that's okay. Follow him back with no pressure on the lead (not at this point, anyway). Wait for him to stop backing on his own, don't tell him whoa, hey or anything else, just let him back until he's done. Once he stops, relax your posture and wait for him to chew, take a deep breath, or whatever sign he gives you that he's relaxed. Then count to three before you begin again. Say 'hey' and hiss again, maybe a little softer this time while slowly raising the lead hand.

Keep at it until you get the desired look just ONCE, then cookie him and put him away to think. You can start asking for this twice, then three times, then four times after he gets it. But, for now, stick with just getting it the one time and being done with him. He'll get the picture pretty quickly.

If the horse does not raise the head and start putting the weight back (his ears and eyes will be on you at this point, no worries there), quickly lower your lead hand and snake that lead at him a bit more vigorously than you did before. Your horse will tell you how vigourously you have to snake it to get his attention. Don't make it huge or most of all painful, just make sure he understands that he isn't giving you the response that you want and try again.

Now, your horse should be elevating his head and neck from the wither, as that is (as I mentioned above) the way they give a 'look' in nature. He should be getting his weight back, have his eyes and ears totally focused on you, and you should begin to see his weight 'lean' back away from you.

This is not an exercise to do every day. This one I'd do every other day and, in the first few sessions, only do it until you get the elevation. Then cookie the heck out of him!

Once he's giving you that responsie reliably in your every other day sessions, usually after a couple of weeks, you can start putting that together with steps 1 and 2.

There you go! Only one step left and we're all done with the stand up. Glad I can help!

 

[ClickMini]

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Oh, I LIKE Step 3!!

Nice, nice, nice! So that's how we can get that spooking look without jerking the heck out of them. Wonderful! Now if only I can figure out how to get the snaking right so he doesn't ignore me....Hmm. Time to go do some retraining!

Amy, I agree with you 100% on taking it on the road and how nice it is to have more than one way to ask. I'm so glad more people are sharing tips here!

I need all the help I can get.

Leia

P.S.- I had Mom help me with getting some video before I started clipping yesterday so I'll post that as soon as I can. I like how the kid looks but definitely found some things to improve about how I position his hind legs. If you can't have a trainer, video critiqueing is the next best thing!

 

[Mominis]

This is the final training step, step 4...hooking the neck.

The way that we do it is that we take the horse into their stall on a regular stable halter and lead. We have a huge pocketful of the horse's favorite goodies. We put the horse's butt into the back corner of the stall in a 'hey' and get out away from them to about the middle of the stall. You want to be far enough away that the horse has to reach for you, but not so far that he has to flatten his neck to reach for you. I hope that makes sense.

Then squat down (dont sit-it isn't safe) in front of the horse. Then make a little noise that sounds different than the clucks and kisses and hisses you've been using and reach your hand out with the goodie in it. The horse isn't allowed to use his feet to get closer to the cookie, he has to stretch his neck to get it. The reason we squat in front of them in the beginning, is that it is easier for a horse to get a 'hinge' in the neck when he's reaching down. Do that for a day or so and you can do it more than once a day.

Gradually, move from a low squat to a higher 'bunny' squat so he still has to hook for the cookie, but it is done higher. Do that for a couple of days. Each day, get so you are higher and higher until the horse is at his best level (this varies from horse to horse depending on height and conformation). Always follow up with a cookie. Once you get the horse to his level and are happy with the height he's at when he hooks, put the hand out with NO GOODIE in it, make your noise, let him reach for your hand, then get into your pocket and get the cookie and give it to him. This pause between behavior and reqard can be gradually increased. This will keeop your horse from flapping his lips at your hand in the show ring when you ask for the neck. He knows the goodie is coming, but it isn't in your hand right then,.

Once he reliable reaches for it each and every time and you have a pause between the behavior and the reward, head back into the schooling area. Put him in a 'hey' do step 3 and then while he's in the step 3 rocked back stance, offer the cookie hand for him to hook to. Often you have to go back to having the cookie in your hand the first few times. What you are telling the horse is,'get your weight back yet bring your neck forward' back + forward = up. Your horse should be nicely elevated and hooking his neck to you now. When he can handle steps 3 and 4 together, put the whole stance together in odrder. Walk him up, whoa to set the hind, step out the front, elevate and extend.

I do not use a chain in training nor do I use one in the show ring. If I've done my homework, it isn't needed. I have a niftly little strap I use in place of the chain. This doesn't bang the horse in the jaw when he trots and allows me to communicate with him softly in the ring. Again, this is just the way we do things. There are lots of great methods that have been suggested in this thread, I hope you find what works for you.

There are lots of little things you can do to tweak things from here and put some extra polish on the presentation, but those are the basics. I sure hope this helped!