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I find myself wondering how many people would voluntarily come to them if they'd read this 176 pages. I honestly wonder if I would
...................... The important word here is voluntarily--- Anyone that asks for intervention on their own realizes they already have a problem & needs outside help.. If they come to CMHR it will NOT be broadcast all over the internet like the Trimbly case was.. Several rescues have already occured & you cannot find their stories on the internet.................... The problem here was people in the know denying that these horses needed help & saying that no horses were in immediate danger. If a horse that has a swollen sheath from so many maggots that he cannot retract that IS an immediate need! CMHR had to keep pushing because evidence proved there was a need to intervene now - not 30 days from now............................... If naysayers will read up through what has occurred since CMHR & the other rescuers got to the farm they will see this has taken a positive turn. If not then they are set on negative no matter what........... Even your big organizations make mistakes, look at the ones blasted after Katrina!....................................... I also want to add my thanks to those that have gone above & beyond - bless you all! I sincerely hope someone continues to help Mr Trimbly with his personal living situation also. If he chooses to live like this then he may not be receptive to outside help. I hope someone has the perserverence to find out if this is the case or if he truly does need outside guidance.
 
I find myself wondering how many people would voluntarily come to them if they'd read this 176 pages. I honestly wonder if I would
...................... The important word here is voluntarily--- Anyone that asks for intervention on their own realizes they already have a problem & needs outside help.. If they come to CMHR it will NOT be broadcast all over the internet like the Trimbly case was.. Several rescues have already occured & you cannot find their stories on the internet.................... The problem here was people in the know denying that these horses needed help & saying that no horses were in immediate danger. If a horse that has a swollen sheath from so many maggots that he cannot retract that IS an immediate need! CMHR had to keep pushing because evidence proved there was a need to intervene now - not 30 days from now............................... If naysayers will read up through what has occurred since CMHR & the other rescuers got to the farm they will see this has taken a positive turn. If not then they are set on negative no matter what........... Even your big organizations make mistakes, look at the ones blasted after Katrina!....................................... I also want to add my thanks to those that have gone above & beyond - bless you all! I sincerely hope someone continues to help Mr Trimbly with his personal living situation also. If he chooses to live like this then he may not be receptive to outside help. I hope someone has the perserverence to find out if this is the case or if he truly does need outside guidance.

[THANK YOU CATHY H! VERY WELL SAID!]
 
That's a very valid point Cathy. I hadn't thought about it from that angle. However, I don't think it changes the fact that this one should have been handled with a lot more tact and could have caused harm. JMHO
 
Yes, Cathy H--well-said! I have read EVERY word of EVERY post of these 177 pages, and although occasionally, a few did 'go off' a bit too much(IMO), overall, I strongly feel that CMHR 'worked' as it should, and I HIGHLY commend all of them for their selfless work. Although I was one of the first to send in a membership to CMHR when it formed, I had not renewed the membership per se for a while---when this situation arose, I sent all I could as a donation, not as a membership-I am still not a member, mostly because my personal situation does not allow me to be away to help in transport, or to take in rescue horses, etc., but I will help by donation when I can. I believe it would be VERY misguided to 'mistrust' CMHR or any well-formed and clearly well-intended rescue organization over a case such as this, and that those who would need to rethink and reexamine WHY they would take that position. When you CONFINE any animal(and can you think of an animal, 'kept' in any way by humans, that is NOT in some way confined, in this day and time?)and make the animal dependent on YOU for their well-being, then it is your moral obligation to provide a reasonable and safe environment and existence. If you are doing so, that will always withstand the light of public scrutiny--and it should.

Since I am already posting, I'd like to note that the post, seen elsewhere and copied onto this thread a few posts back, and which stated that the U. of Delaware would be taking some of their Haflingers to the New Holland sale to sell for slaughter, turned out to NOT be correct. This is NOT happening nor going to happen, re direct information from the person in charge of the Haflingers at the U. of Delaware. I also saw the 'original' forward on a couple of other horse forums, and was horrified, but it has since been addressed and shown NOT to be the case, thankfully!

Margo
 
I stand firm and really think that the horses would not have been helped if CMHR had not pushed so hard and gotten other rescues and people and MEDIA involved.I am still concerned about winter coming and lack of shelter ( I am not convinced that trees do much especially if they have no leaves)and a pond for water.Ponds in winter can be very dnagerous for Minis.Our little ones are very curious and may walk out on a frozen pond only to fall in and drown. I do hope they will make provisions for watering in the winter.I personally have had some horses with colic issues form lack of drinking enough in the winter.I am still concerned that because of neglect in the past some other health issues will surface in the cold weather and times of stress.I really hope there are people in the area who will check on these Minis all throughout the winter. I think of it as comparable to a death.Many people come to the funeral and offer help, but later dowm the road when help is really needed there are few around.I wish I were closer so I could be there to check on them. I really APPLAUD all the volunteers who have make life better for these Minis.
 
Voices of reason! Thank-you. Think about what harm mayhave come to this forum and to mini lovers who want to sell quality minis but who have vented so fervently? Getting the apologies and positive outcome of the story to the same places that folks sent attack messages will go a very long way to make amends. A few who did not really send attack messages have gotten the positive outcome story out but I have not seen the venters send any to try to heal any hurt that may have come from the early attacks. Walk the walk, don't just scream in outrage and then go hide. What can be the lasting memory of this situation can be the positive turn it has taken but not if it doesn't get out. It may be that the legacy is the public humiliation and chastising. That would be unbalanced and sad.
 
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Ladies PLEASE don't misunderstand my note.

There is NO WAY I was criticizing CMHR or its BOD. They have done and continue to do a fantastic job under extremely difficult conditions!!!

If anything, I was criticizing the members of this forum for some of their less than kind comments (my own included) which may not reflect favorably on CMHR.
 
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Cathy H said it very very well and I would very much doubt that a person who is in need of help and intervention with their animals would not approach CMHR or another rescue when they are able to "see", "seek out" or "admit" that their is an immediate need for intervention. I do not recall on any of the other rescues that CMHR has done or other rescues that I know of, where the owner was critized, because the owner has always cooperated and understood that it was in the best interest of the animal to be placed with the rescue.

I am glad I wrote the letter I did to the sheriff, to the DA and to the Governor. It was strong, to the point and not nasty but I tried to make them "think" a bit more to the position they had been taking which was not helping the horses that obviously needed to be out of there and not tomorrow or the day after. This is not a normal case that we have come upon since CMHR has started. This was a very unique and unfortunate case. I believe, if you contact other rescues that have had similar cases many many times the authorities step in immediately and remove those that are in dire need, it prevents the circus that unfortunately had to take place. I have learnt quite a bit in this and I hope that the authorities of Bourbon County have also come away with a better understanding and that sometimes it is best to err on more action, getting the state vet(s) to step in and give their professional opinion and go from there. I did however send a letter of thanks to the Sheriff, ccd to the DA and the Governor for taking action. That is what we were wanting from the start and weren't getting that accomplished. Yes, some harsh words were said because of the frustration that everyone was feeling because of the brick walls that kept being put infront of us, not only from the authorities but also from the owner. Once those brick walls started to crumble and we could finally see that the most needy would get immediate help, things changed drastically. I am sorry but I truly do not believe that those that needed immediate removal would have been released without all the wide publicity in the U.S., and internationally. Lets not start criticizing and re-hashing emtional feelings on this matter. Lets instead give thanks to the Sheriff and his deputies for taking action, to CMHR and the other rescues and all their vounteers and of course last but not least to Mr. Trembly for finally doing the right thing for the horses he had in his care that did need immediate intervention.
 
I strongly agree with Cathy H I feel that if this wasnt so public and people werent so outraged then these horses would still be there

That said I remain firm in my position like I said I am jaded I worked for years with sexually abused kids and neglected kids and to many times hear parents say but I love them... in the early stages it was easy for me to "feel" a bit for the abuser (often the parent) but that was early on I choose pretty quickly to keep my sympothy where it needs to be with the victims who have no choice but to remain where they are

That said I never yelled at the sheriff, I was respectful from day one and only spoke to them twice. I never was rude or mean to the associated press I was very thankful to each paper who listened to my request- and gave them the numbers of those that could give them info to see if it would be a story they were interested in.

I do seem to remember many feeling the same sympothy towards chances owner the horse who started the rescue. There were many who said how awful those who stepped up and got somethign done for that horse were. Those were were more angry at our outrage then the fact the horse was allowed to remain in the condition he was in-The horse whose story still haunts me to this day as well as I am sure many who were here and witnessed it. I stood strong then as well ~personal circumstances does not make it ok that is my opinion and I am allowed to stand by it.

Now if someone comes to me for help or asks for help realizing there is an issue that is a whole different ball game. Anyone involved in rescue for any length of time has to realize that.

I dont feel it should reflect on CMHR on anyway the day we as a society stop being totally outraged at things like this animals suffering - women and children suffering well then shame on all of us- sometimes it takes being the greasy wheel to get any small action done..But then again guess the bottom line is we as a society are almost there :no:

Bottom line due to all of thise (since now many say they did approach him to help and were turned away time and again) the horses have help, Mr Trembly is getting help, getting his yard taken care of, getting "aftercare" and made some new aquaitences... doesnt really seem like a bad deal for any involved - would it have been nice if all of thise could have happened without the outrage and out cry yes of course but that was not what worked. This worked instead of attacking eachother for who is better then who in all of this lets sit back and be happy that horses and human are now getting there needs met and be proud of that fact.
 
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You made some very good points Nila. Thank you.

One of my concerns is that the frustration and anger we've posted on this forum may have damaged Chances Mini Horse Rescue's image.

I find myself wondering how many people would voluntarily come to them if they'd read this 176 pages. I honestly wonder if I would. I'm not sure I'd contact an organization that I thought would cause me the kind of nationwide embarassment and grief that our venting on this forum has caused. We've slandered, bad-mouthed and ridiculed just about everyone involved from Mr. Trembly to Sheriff Coleman up through individuals at all levels of Kansas government. People with cooler heads have repeatedly asked us to cease and desist, but it continued on to the point of adnausium.

In hindsight that was definitely not the way to handle things. In hindsight I wish, when we've needed to vent, we had typed our opinion, anger and frustration then hit the Delete button rather than the Add Reply button. I honestly wish I could take back the negative things I said because they were certainly not conducive to good public relations for CMHR. Instead of showing the world that we are a group of caring, non-judgemental individuals we sounded, quite often, too often, like a lynch mob.

Yes we got the media attention we needed. Yes we are finally getting some of the horses moved. But at what cost to the reputation of CMHR?

If I, by any of my actions or comments, in any way tarnished the reputation of Chances Miniature Horse Rescue I humbly apologize!

And while I'm apologizing I'd like to add my apologies to anyone I may have unfairly judged. I'm truely sorry if I caused anyone pain.



I had not previously responded to Vicki's post with respect to developing a mechanism for folks to go to when they need assistance. I didn't respond because I had to think things through and I have done a lot of thinking. I have also done a lot of reading and review on this thread.

One angle in all of this is voluntary versus forced intervention in one form or another. There seemed to be the assumption that voluntary meant before a problem became obvious but that would not necessarily be the case and isn't always the case. So the feeling seems to be that if folks voluntary contact the rescue there will be no issue with respect to vilification of the sort we have seen here. So I asked myself, what sort of posts would I be reading if Vern Trembly had contacted CMHR himself on, for arguments sake, Sept. 13th. I believe we need to do some self examination on the answer to that question. I'll leave it at that. For now.
 
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If anything, I was criticizing the members of this forum for some of their less than kind comments (my own included) which may not reflect favorably on CMHR.
....I agree ..... Several of us ( me included ) said things that we should not have......... We can't undo the negative so lets work on creating more of the positive...... I will say that if I find myself getting into an animal neglect situation I will not hestitate to contact CMHR to let them place my animals.
 
I have to add one final thought to all of this.. would I purchase a horse from someone who voiced there outrage on this topic of course I would. I would be more hesitant to purchase one from someone who is complacent

But.. that is like saying would I purchase a horse from someone with different religious beliefs who has postedn them here on this forum, or different views on sexual orientation, or a million other things we can agree or disagree on of course I would. I realize we dont all think the same, have the same beliefs on politics or many other things and that has nothing to do with the fact that we do share one thing in common for sure.. the love of our minis.

We wean different, feed different, train different does that mean I wouldnt ever consider a horse from someone who was different then me of course not.. good thing or I would imagine the pool of "sellers" would become very very small if all I wanted was duplicates of myself in every way and thought
 
I am not saying that raising the alarm on the Trembly situation was not necessary - it absolutely was. The force that caused Trembly to give up those early horses was the pressure from this group.

What I do want to say that the outrage poured out before any meaningful contact could be made with Trembly. Because the local authorities did not immediately act the way we wanted them to the messages became accusatory and inflammatory. A more coordinated intervention would have been more effective earlier into the situation. Less outrage and anger and more support flowing into the area would have avoided some of the negative side of this story. And honestly it would have been less emotionally upsetting to the members of the group.

As I said before, Ginny was fabulous in all that she has done, Trembly was not going to be around for her to make personal contact early on and that was a big problem. This group wheeled out of control between then and when the Kansas residents were able to make contact with Trembly to get the full story and make inroads with him. By then reports from the folks who made that persoanl contact were not received well and many of those folks were villified for what they reported. The national story that went out and is still out there was how horrible this man was and how horrible Kansas law enforcement was.

It's like the Richard Peck's story when he was accused of the Atlanta Olympic bombing and villified. When is turned out that is was not him and that he was trying to help prevent the bombing no one said a word. He had to file suit to get the same degree of national attention to recognize that he was not the villian he was portrayed to be.

I believe as miniature horse lovers we are better than that.
 
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Here is some background and facts for you:

There are two "Ginnys".......Ginny St. Pierre is the President of CHMR who is the one that is out in Kansas

Gini Acton is a BOD member of CHMR who is presently visiting in Alaska, and is also the originial poster of

this thread asking for help to notify Kansas authorities to help this herd

You do not know what CHMR has gone through prior to our postsing here. CHMR worked for many days behind the scenes trying to get this situation solved without going "public" here to you. We thought we had it under control. Every week CHMR works behind the scenes helping people and their owners with their minis out of all kinds of situations without blabbling and exposing their personal details through the mud and no one thought this would be any different; but this case was urgent, catastrophic, and it turned out much differently. It took on a life of it's own.

CHMR does not have a State Co-ordinater(s) in each state and we need them. If we had any CHMR Co-ordinater resources in Kansas this could have gone down very differently. When we met in a board meeting, we knew we had to have help quick and act quickly on this, so we turned to the Sheriff for help and support. He wanted to act as our liason to Mr. Trembly and we were grateful for that. He assured us that the minis were now being taken care of as they were working with Trembly in many capacities and we had no reason not to trust in his word.

But BOD meetings kept revealing that our follow up reports simply did not match and we became very suspicious and we wanted to know why.

That is when Ginny (The Pres.) and Jess (BOD) went to Kansas to see the goings on for themseves.

You remember their findings. You remember the pictures.

There was no water, no hay, nothing for the horses as she reported back to us in a BOD meeting.

We kept this all under our hats and kept it all private so we could continue to investigate any way we could. It's not like we came rushing here in haste half cocked just to cause problems. So we kept working on it harder and harder every day.

The BOD knew we needed to find help from other places and so we went further trying to get assistance to every other agency in Kanas we could think of day after day to no avail. But they all kept passing the buck and we found ourselves back in the boardroom in a mess with no help in sight. We put our own lives on hold for 2 weeks and did nothing else but work around the clock on this case beating our heads up against a stone wall day after day with this. No one in "authority" in Kansas was going to help us out. We each had a task and we were failing. While we were in a board-room, the horses were out there hungry and this had to stop. This was going on far too long.

That is when the BOD finally decided we had to come to the forum and go public with our information. We did not know what else to do. Our hands were tied and we had no other choice. Winter was coming and we were running out of time for the little horses. We had proof to back us up. Ginny's pictures. We had to pull out all the stops. It was just too big for us to handle and we knew if we went public, maybe someone would see it and help. What else could we have done? What would you have done if you were in our shoes?

So that is when Ginny posted her pictures for the first time and came out in public trying to seek help for the minis.

By that time we were already worn out, frazzled, emotionally beat down, depressed and yes angry.

There are a whole lot of "IF's" in this case.

IF the Sheriff was straight up with us in the first place

IF we had a Kansas Co-ordinator

IF Ginny and Jess had not gone there in person

IF we never came here and told you the truth

All I can tell you is that if we made mistakes it is because we are only human and are passionate for the horses welfare and tried to get things done for the little ones. Our intention was soley to help, not hurt.

There are still things pertaining to the case that you do not know and may never be released.

I'm sure there is a lot more that has been revealed by now too and will not come to public light.

If anyone wants to become a State Co-ordinator for your State or become a member, drop a note to Shannon the secretary.

I for one spouted off in anger myself and said things harshly on a personal level yes, I know it and I feel lousy about it. Those opinions I expressed are mine and not the opinions of the CHMR.

Gone fishing (again)
 
Marty when I say Ginny I mean the entire CMHR. IF you feel lousy about the personal attack then all I am saying is be big enough to correct the impression you created. Leaving things stand as it is right now is not fair to CMHR, SWER, this forum or the miniature horse community. Go fishing but surely you can find a moment for a heart felt positive follow up to what went on before. That's not a criticism it is a reminder that it is not over until its over. Trembly still has horses, a long term working relationship has been established through the hard all of us put but the negative needs to be replaced with the positive. Not a very hard thing to do.
 
I myself included did post anger about this situation. I did some name calling. I DID email the Sheriff and apologized for what "I" said. However, a lot of the harsh words from a lot of people got locals up and going on this problem that they most likely saw but didn't realize was so bad. Sometimes people NEED a good swift kick in the butt to get action. As far as damage to CMHR, I do not think this situation did any harm to the them. I also do not think it did harm to MR.T (except emotionally). Let me explain before I get lynched. This man was indeed over his head. who ever was close to him was too close to see the problem. With what everyone did, there was international attention that got the ball rolling. CMHR only facilitated the process. They did not do any name calling. they were nothing but kind and show concern for the horses. I think they did a wonderful job. The way the news showed the rescuers talking to MR T. was wonderful and I think could only help CMHR and everyone that was there to step up and help.
 
MARTY, thanks for giving us the timeline on what actually happened to get us to this point.I think everyone should read this very carefully and I really feel CMHR did what was absolutely necessary for the welfare of these horses. Hopefully those that are left behind will be cared for properly throughout the winter and in the future.
 
Marty, I think we know now that it was no easy task and it did take more than CMHR to start the process of getting these little guys rescued because the task was to big for them. I do think it took a lot of voices to speak for this herd of minis and I hope Mr T will be grateful, in the end, that his minis will have it much better in getting the care they have a right to and need. No one is saying that you didn't work hard and that you didn't become frustrated and angry along the way...you done the best you could for the moment. We don't know what all CMHR went through before it was brought to our attention but you could have told us and we would have been glad to read what was going on. I think what happened though is we started wondering what was going on and felt there was some sensationalism going on rather than factual informtion. But there is always something to learn from every experience and we can grow and become even better from them. There is still things I wonder about but will probably never know unless someone wants to share all the facts. You have your story, the sherrif has his story, Mr T has his story and so it goes. I am grateful to all who have worked so hard on this project and I do believe that all horse lovers know there was a lot of concern here and wanted the best for these little guys. We can go on from here and help the people who are fostering the rescued minis and hopefully they will share the progress of their recovery. Mary

PS Hope yu catch [caught] the big one.

Here is some background and facts for you:

There are two "Ginnys".......Ginny St. Pierre is the President of CHMR who is the one that is out in Kansas

Gini Acton is a BOD member of CHMR who is presently visiting in Alaska, and is also the originial poster of

this thread asking for help to notify Kansas authorities to help this herd

You do not know what CHMR has gone through prior to our postsing here. CHMR worked for many days behind the scenes trying to get this situation solved without going "public" here to you. We thought we had it under control. Every week CHMR works behind the scenes helping people and their owners with their minis out of all kinds of situations without blabbling and exposing their personal details through the mud and no one thought this would be any different; but this case was urgent, catastrophic, and it turned out much differently. It took on a life of it's own.

CHMR does not have a State Co-ordinater(s) in each state and we need them. If we had any CHMR Co-ordinater resources in Kansas this could have gone down very differently. When we met in a board meeting, we knew we had to have help quick and act quickly on this, so we turned to the Sheriff for help and support. He wanted to act as our liason to Mr. Trembly and we were grateful for that. He assured us that the minis were now being taken care of as they were working with Trembly in many capacities and we had no reason not to trust in his word.

But BOD meetings kept revealing that our follow up reports simply did not match and we became very suspicious and we wanted to know why.

That is when Ginny (The Pres.) and Jess (BOD) went to Kansas to see the goings on for themseves.

You remember their findings. You remember the pictures.

There was no water, no hay, nothing for the horses as she reported back to us in a BOD meeting.

We kept this all under our hats and kept it all private so we could continue to investigate any way we could. It's not like we came rushing here in haste half cocked just to cause problems. So we kept working on it harder and harder every day.

The BOD knew we needed to find help from other places and so we went further trying to get assistance to every other agency in Kanas we could think of day after day to no avail. But they all kept passing the buck and we found ourselves back in the boardroom in a mess with no help in sight. We put our own lives on hold for 2 weeks and did nothing else but work around the clock on this case beating our heads up against a stone wall day after day with this. No one in "authority" in Kansas was going to help us out. We each had a task and we were failing. While we were in a board-room, the horses were out there hungry and this had to stop. This was going on far too long.

That is when the BOD finally decided we had to come to the forum and go public with our information. We did not know what else to do. Our hands were tied and we had no other choice. Winter was coming and we were running out of time for the little horses. We had proof to back us up. Ginny's pictures. We had to pull out all the stops. It was just too big for us to handle and we knew if we went public, maybe someone would see it and help. What else could we have done? What would you have done if you were in our shoes?

So that is when Ginny posted her pictures for the first time and came out in public trying to seek help for the minis.

By that time we were already worn out, frazzled, emotionally beat down, depressed and yes angry.

There are a whole lot of "IF's" in this case.

IF the Sheriff was straight up with us in the first place

IF we had a Kansas Co-ordinator

IF Ginny and Jess had not gone there in person

IF we never came here and told you the truth

All I can tell you is that if we made mistakes it is because we are only human and are passionate for the horses welfare and tried to get things done for the little ones. Our intention was soley to help, not hurt.

There are still things pertaining to the case that you do not know and may never be released.

I'm sure there is a lot more that has been revealed by now too and will not come to public light.

If anyone wants to become a State Co-ordinator for your State or become a member, drop a note to Shannon the secretary.

I for one spouted off in anger myself and said things harshly on a personal level yes, I know it and I feel lousy about it. Those opinions I expressed are mine and not the opinions of the CHMR.

Gone fishing (again)
 
Maybe I am missing something here, but I think the news coverage of this situation has been pretty fair. And I also think that most of us that did send letters, made phone calls, etc. were polite but tried to express our concern over the situation at hand, and our opinion that more needed to be done for the sake of those animals on that farm. I don't see what is wrong with John Q. Public letting public officials know when we are concerned about a situation.

And from what people are posting that visited the farm, they were all respectful of Mr. Trembly, the sheriff, and the deputy. And Mr. Trembly has been working with these people, as have the sheriff and the deputy.

I am not heartless, but I personally don't feel the need to apologize for any of my actions. Had I sent horrible letters or made horribly rude calls to Mr. Trembly or the sheriff's office I would feel that need, but I never would have done that in the first place.
 
I would just like to remind everyone that this is a public forum for anyone and everyone from around the world to voice there opinion on this subject. CMHR did what they had to do to get the public involved. Of course with something this big it can easily turn into a witch hunt, but then how do you get the public to lay down there torches and listen to reason? I think this forum has also done a great job of that too! In a very short time things have started turning around and people are calming down. CMHR and other rescue groups will not be known for this forum subject alone. They will be remembered for what they are actually doing out in the field. The wonderful letters that many of you have written and what the news media is presenting now will carry much more weight than what has been written here on the forum. I would think that people reading this forum subject can see that it is merely opinions. Most of us do not see what the rescue groups go through with rescues. Most of of could not do what they do for many reasons. Rescues are very emotional and very hard on everybody concerned and it takes a person not only with a big heart and a strong will, but a person who can look objectively at every situation and keep a level head. We will all remember these little Kansas horses, but the rescue groups have seen so many more sad situations that the will have in there dreams as they sleep at night. We have been allowed to be part of one and felt the emotions that they have to go through each time. How many of us are level headed and strong enough to take on all that would come our way?

Shelia
 
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