Again, I am confused....

[Bonny]

I did check for heat this am when I looked to see if it was still swollen. It was very cool to the touch. So thats a good sign.

I really am hoping its an early pregnancy issue!

 

[Bonny]

Just checking in to see what yall think....

This am her bag was less saggy looking and bigger.... What do yall think?

june 16th

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479.../6-16-08004.jpg

July 2nd very saggy looking:

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...e/7-2-08009.jpg

July 5th:

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...e/7-5-08001.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...e/7-5-08006.jpg

 

[Minimor]

Honestly, I would say that has a ways to go yet before I would refer to it as a bag! The latest picture is different from the earliest one but there still doesn't look to be anything much there, and it is quite common even for open mares to have something one day and nothing much a few days later--not sure what it is, but I have noticed that they change from time to time.

Not saying that your mare didn't get in foal from the May breeding, but I don't think I'd take that "bag" as proof that she did.

 

[OhHorsePee]

Bonny, I have a mare and also know someone else that has one that will let a stallion mount and breed them when they have been settled.

 

[Bonny]

Its just weird to me as I check her so often. Her bag didnt do this in May when she was in heat and breeding. I have had her almost 7 months and her bag has never done this before.

I will just have to keep checking her. I guess time will tell if it will continue to swell or if it will go down.

Any one with a maiden mare had this happen to them?

I have heard some maiden dont bag till after they foal. Now I understand this is not a bag per say but it is a huge difference from 5 days ago. When I checked her udder on June 30th there was nothing but nipples. Then 2 days later it started and it is getting bigger...

 

[Bonny]

Maybe she is bred from the stally in Feb. My other Mare was bred in Feb and Bonny looks a lot like her.

So would it be more normal for her udder to be changing if she was 5 months?

She is similar. Maybe an US is in order?

 

[Bonny]

I have had maiden mares foal with what I would call no bag. It may look swollen instead of a bag.

Ther isnt any signs of foaling. He belly is tucked and tight. Her hips and croup dont look sunk, and her vulva is the same and pink inside not crimson.

So Lisa, is this what you mean by no bag and swollen? Did it look like Bonny's udder?

This was from this am.

 

[Bonny]

I was looking and you can see milk veins that extend down to her belly button. Does that mean anything?

 

[Bonny]

This is a long tiring ordeal. 7 months I have been wondering about this mare is she or isnt she in foal.

She is a maiden mare. Is it not possible she is weeks away from foaling? I am going to post pics from April I think my mini is thinner looking now but she has a bigger belly. I dont know what to think. I am heart felt asking for advise because this is my first mini and her first foal. I do not want to leave her unattended if she is going to foal and have something happen. Please look at the pics and tell me what you think. I realize her bag is not full but with a maiden cant she foal with a small bag? Cant maidens hide their pregnancies?

I realize y'all are probably sick of me asking. And if I had a vet that could help I wouldnt be bothering y'all.

I am sorry if I am being a pain in the butt.

Her when I first got her: she was to thin.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...etbonn023-1.jpg

April

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...-20-08006-2.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...-20-08009-1.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479.../3-20-08018.jpg

July

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...7-2-08025-1.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...7-5-08049-1.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...7-2-08001-1.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...e/7-8-08007.jpg

In one week her bag changed.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...-16-08004-1.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...e/7-8-08007.jpg

 

[Ashley]

IMO milk veins mean nothing. I have a mare here with a very distinct one, she isnt due until Febuary.

 

[Minimor]

As I've said before, no, she does not look to me to be in foal, at least not so far along that she is due any day, or even any day soon. Obviously she may be in foal from her May breeding, or February, or whenever it was she was with the stallion this spring, but I would be surprised if she ended up foaling "soon"

In the front photo she looks like a narrow framed horse with a bigger belly--not a pregnant belly, just a well fed one. I've got a narrow pony that has a wider belly than that & I know she isn't in foal--though she does look much more pregnant that your girl does!

That still isn't what I'd call a bag--it looks like there's some fluid in there, but as has been said by various people on various threads, a maiden mare with fluid in her "bag" isn't at all unusual.

All the guessing in the world is just that--guessing. You basically have two choices--treat her like she is going to foal any day and watch her like a hawk, or decide that she isn't going to foal any time soon & don't watch her closely. The latter doesn't mean you can't still keep an eye on her, so that you will notice if she does start to change in a big way. Most times mares will give you signs--there are those that don't, but of those that don't...some of them do actually give warning signs, it's just that they are so faint or subtle that unless you're looking at the mare very carefully you will miss them.

 

[Bonny]

You know what Minimor, your reply sounds sarcastic. I understand that I ask a lot of questions and it can get annoying to those that have been breeding for a while.

Everyone has to start somewhere. Thats how we learn. And at least I care enough about my mare to ask questions and look for answers that I dont know.

As I stated before I would rather be safe than sorry.

So please if my questions annoy you, dont read my posts and certainly dont reply in a sarcastic manner.

 

[Magic]

I didn't think that Minimor's reply sounded sarcastic.

You really are asking us all to *guess* if your mare is weeks away from foaling or not, and that is just really difficult to do based on pictures. I would guess no, she isn't anywhere near the end of a pregnancy. Maybe that isn't what you want to hear, so you keep asking? And truly, I am NOT being sarcastic! I just think that you are going to drive yourself crazy wondering. And wondering. She may have settled from her breeding this year, possibly, but she isn't going to foal anytime soon. As close as you watch her, you would definitely see signs, more than what you are seeing now.

You are a such an attentive, loving owner, I commend you for the wonderful care and thought you put into your horses. I just hope that you don't burn yourself out watching for a pregnancy that is likely many many months away.

Good luck with your sweet mare!

 

[Bonny]

Magic,

Maybe that isn't what you want to hear, so you keep asking?

I just tried to make it clear that I ask because I have no experience at all in foaling horses. My mini also is a maiden. I have read many times about minis having issues during foaling. I dont want to be caught off guard.

That statement is exactly why I and others feel uneasy to ask, members assume motive. I am sure once I have been through a foaling or two I will have a bit more confidence. But when one reads about a maiden foaling with no bag, but has not experienced it, it is hard for one to know what exactly is meant.

It is not so important to me when my mare foals but her safety and that of her foal is very important to me. It doesnt help much that my vet has no clue either, and there isnt another vet for hours around me.

I hope yall understand its not that newbies are trying to be difficult, its a matter of inexperience and lack of confidence. We truly need help. It is discouraging to be reprimanded for asking from those with more experience.

 

[Reijel's Mom]

I would also tend to agree that looking for milk veins can be deceiving. I was just out playing with my horses right now, and if I posted pictures of a couple of my mares that had never had babies, and zeroed in on their veins in that area - well, they COULD look like enlarged milk veins.

Along the same lines, I've had a gelding that I'm pretty sure I could have told people he was pregnant and they would have believed me if they didn't know he was male. Actually he was just way too overweight and happened to carry most of his fat in the belly.

Can you refresh us? I thought you had had a vet out a couple of times for this mare and they said she wasn't pregnant, but I don't remember how they confirmed that?

I can understand the "is she, isn't she", I just went through it with my first bred mini mare. I chose to watch her like a hawk, and she didn't make it easy as she went 358 days.

If I were you - I'd just keep up with the daily checking, but I tend to agree with the others, I don't think she's due any time real soon if she is bred. That being said, I can see the change in the udder you are talking about. THAT being said, it may not even have anything to do with pregnancy. OR it might OH!

FUN, isn't it?

 

[luv2ridesaddleseat]

As another newby to pregnant horses, I understand where Bonny is comming from. Her Vet is useless to her with minis as are mine. There is one repro Vet that will do minis in my state that I know of, it's that bad. I finally got an appointment with her and I was counting down the hours until she was to see my mare and my son ended up having emergency surgery late the night before the appt. so I had to cancel it as I was at the hospital. The problem is the Vets. There aren't many that will palpate or do much with minis at all. Bonny has no help other than to keep posting pictures and ask questions to experienced breeders, as I do of my mare. If my mares udder was filling up right now, I'd be in a panic also. I called back the repro Vets office to reschedule and it's another 3 weeks before they will come to me. It's really the pits. :arg!

 

[Bonny]

Reijel's Mom & luv2ridesaddleseat, Thank you for understanding. This has been difficult to say the least.

Reijel's Mom:

I brought Bonny home the end of last December, she had been pastured with a stally for 6-8 months per the owner. I wee foal tested her in Jan and got a neg. I had a stally here in Feb who seemed uninterested in breeding her, he wanted my 15.2 hh paint mare. OH! However I did see him cover her and after he left she still looked big to me in the tummy compared to before so I tested with wee foal again and got a positive. In March my vet did a free US abdominally and saw no fetus so I asked him to do blood work. He did and it came back 'low' so he said either neg or early in pregnancy. In April she was bigger still so he did another US and saw nothing, when I say nothing I mean he only saw GI track. Now after studying I read that mini mares can have lower levels than that of a standard mare and my vet also said he knows nothing about minis. So he told me just because he didnt see it doesnt mean its not there.But he was surprised because she was so much bigger than before. He told me to watch her just in case. In may she came into heat after all year w/out one.Minus Feb where she did a bit of winking and let the stally mount but didnt hold still. So we let her breed in May figuring she wasnt bred. She has not cycled again since, but started this udder thing.

Joyce, it is so frustrating that vets dont know much about mini horses. With my vet not knowing where else can I turn?

 

[hhpminis]

Bonny

I understand your worry and frustration. I also do not see that bag as a bag developing as if foaling is imminent. I also think you are asking if this could be the start of a bag of a mare that could be foaling in a month or so.

My guess would be no. On the basis of the negative US and wee foal tests. However, if your mare was bred in May, she is far enough along to do a US now and see a fetus. I am sorry if you have since as I have lost track but I would get another one done to ease your mind. Also at 3 months or so you could do a blood test and check it that way.

I do not know where you live but here in the northern states, our mares do not really cycle until May or June. They may have a transitional heat and tease the stallion and even stand for the stallion but they do not take until later in the year. So after all of this, my guess is that if your mare is pregnant, she took in May and you are dealing with some hormone changes that are effecting her bag and you are more observant that most to notice.

Let us know what you find out and keep your chin up.

 

[Minimor]

Thank you Magic--and no, Bonny, I wasn't being sarcastic, just realistic. Guesses based on photos are relatively useless when it comes to deciding if you should or shouldn't be watching your mare. I understand that my guess of 'no, she isn't going to foal any time soon' isn't what you want to hear-sorry I said anything!

 

[miniaddiction]

OK, I have read through all the replies.

I dont think anyone is being sarcastic here. You asked everyone for their opinions and I think you are lucky with the amount of quality replies you have had.

You don't need to listen to them if you disagree with them.

Im going to give you my opinions based on my experience so far...

I think Bonny is pregnant. I would be inclined to believe that she is pregnant from her first breeding back before you got her not the most recent one because she looks further away than that.

Her udder development IMO is more than just general fluctuations. I think she is developing breast tissue type stuff, doesnt mean her udder is starting to fill ( which would mean she is close to foaling). My mare has done this with each pregnancy so far, developed a bit of an "udder" about 4 months before foaling and just progressively got bigger. She was a maiden with a FULL bag and ALOT of milk a day or so before she foaled.

The key thing here is that EVERY mare is SO different!!! And they do strange things for a number of reasons.

I think your best bet would be to assume she in in foal from when you bought her, go with that latest possible due date and keep a close eye on her. I would think she would be at least a month or two away...Is that a possibility?

Anyway, I understand you are concerned about her and want answers. I have been there done that...

You will look back on all these months of guessing and it will all be worth it.

Crossing my fingers for you.