Again, I am confused....

[rabbitsfizz]

I agree with Helen, this is not normal udder development for a maiden mare.

I have seen this sort of thing happen when a mare comes into season, if that is not happening then I do think there is an outside chance that your mare is in foal, but I do not think she is due any time soon!!

I have two mares that have shown true, real heat this year, one was obviously in foal, and my young stallion would not go anywhere near her...she is out with him now and he is keeping a wary eye on her!!

The other mare was not obviously in foal, she looked to have missed and was in true season, and was bred on two cycles.

She is now obviously in foal, and due in about a months time!!!!

I must add that neither mare was pregnancy tested..I do not lay a lot of faith in them, the only time I ever trust them is when I can see the heart beating on the monitor for myself, and even that does not mean you will get a foal!

 

[Bonny]

Thank you Magic--and no, Bonny, I wasn't being sarcastic, just realistic. Guesses based on photos are relatively useless when it comes to deciding if you should or shouldn't be watching your mare. I understand that my guess of 'no, she isn't going to foal any time soon' isn't what you want to hear-sorry I said anything!

I understand your point, but every reply made to a question on this board is an educated guess. The reply of no you dont think she is going to foal soon, wasnt what made your reply sound sarcastic. And as I said its not about what I do and do not want to hear. My mares body is continuing to change and as changes are happening it adds to the puzzle hence another question thats all.

hhpminis- yes! thats exactly what I am asking, could this be the start of a bag, leading to foaling in a month or so. I realize also that maidens are not so good at following the rules, so it put me in a peculiar situation.

miniaddiction, yes she could be due any time from now until November from the stallion from before I got her.

 

[Bonny]

I just got back from feeding and this is todays am pics.....

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...e/7-9-08003.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...e/7-9-08006.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...e/7-9-08008.jpg

 

[Bonny]

Ok I am North of Houston Texas about an hour. Bonny is 4 and she is about 35 inches tall at the wither.

The Lady I got her from was downsizing her herd as there was a health issue. The stally had been her long term stallion, so I assume he could do his job. He is a sorrel pinto.

Also you wrote:"Normally my mares bag will fill up in the back first - and then the closer they get they start feeling up in the front." Is that what you think she is doing?

 

[sassy1]

Bonny,

These are some photos of my then 2 year old filly's udder. I did a panic about it and tried to find out what stallion she could have been near, as I hadn't had her served. She was only about 27"-28" at the time and fairly immature. She had a bag and milk - not just fluid.

We concluded that with her it must have just been the result of good feed and the work that she was getting at the time. She is now 8 years old and still hasn't had that darn foal.

Hopefully she is going to have her first foal in January/February next year.

I have my fingers crossed as she hasn't been preg tested at this stage. We are trying to get a urine sample this weekend.

The last photo is at the 2 year old Futurity competition that she was being prepared for. She won it! She is shown as a Miniature Pony here in Australia.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e83/sass...dder/udder4.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e83/sass...dder/udder2.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e83/sass...der/udder10.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e83/sass...sy6original.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e83/sass...ssyFuturity.jpg

Good Luck with your mare.

 

[luv2ridesaddleseat]

Excellent post LisaF! Those of us that have never been through this and have Vets that are no help, We have to ask questions which is why these forums exist! There isn't any answer we want to hear other than we are doing all we can to keep out mares safe, especially with a maiden. Because of the things we've learned about maidens on this site, is a HUGE reason to ask questions! For instance, we have learned, they can foal without ever showing they are even pregnant! They can easily need help with the first baby to the point where, SOMEONE HAD BETTER be there or there is a huge chance you could loose your mare and foal! Bonny needs support! I'm sure she doesn't want to "miss" anything and take the chance of loosing her mare!

 

[sassy1]

LisaF,

We assume that is was the good feed (and work) that she was getting at the time. She did the same sort of thing when she was a 4 year old too.

She has never appeared to have any hormone issues, and cycles normally. I did breed her 2 years ago but it was very, very late in the season and we only served her for the one cycle and she didn't appear to come back in. No foal though, but it could have been because it was too late/too cold or she could have absorbed it as we were in the middle of a drought.

She is only 30" now - measured at the top of the wither and you could SEE her udder when you stood back to take a photo.

 

[Ashley]

I think part of the reason people get frusterated is

1) the same questions get asked over and over and most of the time people(not any particular post) dont want to hear what others are saying unless its what they want to hear.

2) people dont learn about foaling before they decide to jump into breeding and foaling. They either just go by a bred mare, or breed one they have then decide once the dead is done its time to learn. The learning(most of it) needs to be done before that point.

 

[luv2ridesaddleseat]

LisaF, my big mare looks like your mini in your avitar.

 

[luv2ridesaddleseat]

Ashley, I HIGHLY respect all of your answers on LB, and I mean that wholeheartly! I LOVE to read your answers to anything!

How do most people start out? We read and learn everything we can beforehand. We have friends that have had foals, we have video tapes, books, etc. I know most of us don't or can't spend a foaling season at a breeding farm. I think getting one mare and asking questions along the way as well as everything we have already learned is the only way most people can do it. And thats why we are here is to ask questions to learn all we can. Some situations are just a tad more difficult when we don't know exactly when the mare was bred. Going back to the Vets lack of anything with minis!

 

[Bonny]

I think part of the reason people get frusterated is

1) the same questions get asked over and over and most of the time people(not any particular post) dont want to hear what others are saying unless its what they want to hear.

2) people dont learn about foaling before they decide to jump into breeding and foaling. They either just go by a bred mare, or breed one they have then decide once the dead is done its time to learn. The learning(most of it) needs to be done before that point.

I can understand your point but wouldnt it be just as easy for the person replying to just not reply if the topic or repeat questions annoy them? There have been several topics on here that I dont agree with so I dont reply. I could reply sarcastically, but why? whats the point? Its not my Topic nor is it my business.

It may seem that we newbies are asking the same questions but there is a reason for that. For example in my case the bag was getting bigger not staying the same or shrinking, so I would wonder if that meant anything new or different. So I ask. It may seem like the same question but there may be new circumstances.

And just because someone studies about breeding and has friends that breed, when they get their first mare in foal its still a learning experience. I should know.

BTW I took the pictures to my vet and he was surprised. He said she looks like a mare starting to bag to foal. He is as puzzled as I am and is faxing the pictures to his professor who is an equine repro.

 

[Ashley]

Ashley, and some of us get frustrated when people post just to start an arguement - I am SURE alot of us bred our first horse without knowing everything about breeding. I have been breeding for 7 years and I am still learning - So, does that mean I should NOT be breeding miniature horses? Oh, I guess you know EVERYTHING about breeding horses???

I wasnt posting it to start an arguement. I have far more going on in my life then to wast time do that. I just stated what some others have said in the past to maybe open the eyes to why people get frusterated with many topics, not just these ones.

That said since asked..............I have been around horses since I was 11, practically lived with my aunt from spring to fall. Showed, groomed, was there for foaling and breeding(when I was a bit older). I never bred my first mares until last year. I am 24 years old now. I am pretty sure 12 years of watching, learning and helping foal out I have learned alot. Do I know everything? no, do I have experiance yes.

And lastly, if there is truelly anybody in this world that knows EVERYTHING about one topic then I sure would like to meet them.

 

[Bonny]

Look yall, I dont want to keep this OT bickering up. I understand that it is frustrating to members when they feel they have to answer the same questions. All in all I appreciate the members of this board and I do welcome opinions. Because that is all we can offer is opinions and educated guesses.

There is really no need to get snippy with members. If you get annoyed dont read and reply to that members topic, its that simple.

I am sorry as I said in the beginning if I am being a pain in the butt. However I do wholeheartedly care about the welfare of my mare and possible foal. And if I have a question and I am unsure I am going to post.

I have read and studied and have been around friends with animals of all sorts that have bred and birthed also. I have pulled goats free on many occasions. But I havent with horses and they are different. With these minis and all that can possibly go wrong, I want to be the best prepared possible. I can study till the cows come home but experience is golden. And having not experienced foaling firsthand I am concerned, fascinated, and a bit apprehensive.

I still am unsure as to the state of my mare. Its a daily watch and wait. My vet is puzzled also. With all the ifs ands and buts of mini horse breeding and foaling I sure need help.

Thank you to everyone who has offered advice and opinions. As my mare makes more changes I am sure I will have more questions.

Lets Please stop this OT and please just help me figure out whats up with Bonny.

 

[luv2ridesaddleseat]

Bonny, I am learning so much from you and your mare! If my mare isn't in foal I will be breeding her on her next heat. I have learned each and every birthing experience is different. I have been obsessed with marestare for 4 years, watching tons of births live and seeing everything possible. The good, the bad, and the ugly. Most foaling experiences are different. Most aren't just breed the mare, she foals around her due date and all is well. Sure, some are a pleasure from start to finish. But once they're not "textbook", look out!! Please keep posting pictures! I want to learn everything I can! I only wish you had a knowledgeable Vet that you could work with. Your problems would be over. I never realized the Vet problem with minis until I had my own. There are 4 Vets at my Vet office. I asked the one that came to do my shots in April about a blood test for Cookie for pregnancy, and she looked at me like I had 2 heads? She honestly didn't have a clue about a blood test for my mare! You just keep asking questions girl, and posting pictures! Between all of us, we'll get you through this and we'll all learn something, which won't hurt anybody!

 

[hhpminis]

I have to say that with the new pictures, I am stumped as well. It does appear to be growing. I still do not think foaling is imminent and I think you are past that point too but this does make me curious. This is the very reason I hand breed. Nothing against those that pasture breed please dont take it that way, but it is not for me.

The first mini I ever foaled out was pasture bred when I got her and I remember the months of guessing, waiting, losing sleep and worrying over this mare. Each mare is different as is each birth can be from the same mare. This particular mare was one that turned out to have white milk all the time so you can imagine my surprise when I first checked her and stripped milk and got a palmful of white milk! Turns out that she turns clear and watery a couple weeks before she foals and goes through the normal progression of colostrum.

Keep us posted!

 

[Reijel's Mom]

Here's my advice based on your updated pics - WATCH HER, and keep on watching her. Maybe nothing will happen and maybe it will but better to be safe than sorry.

 

[luv2ridesaddleseat]

I agree reijel's mom!

 

[Bonny]

Joyce, thanks so much for the encouragement!

Your so sweet!

hhpminis-dont feel bad I think my vet is the most surprised, he swears they wont breed if they are pregnant no matter what, and when he saw the pics this am he was quite surprised and puzzled. I know he is doing everything he can, with his limited experience in minis. Although Bonny is his only mini client and he sure is getting a lesson!

I do think I have time to prepare but with maidens who knows!

It has been Bonnys pattern to be fuller in the am and a bit less at night. But every day it seems fuller than the last.

I went out tonight to check on her and brush her and generally look her over. I took my camera of course, lol, and snapped off a few. Thank goodness for digital cameras!!

So if your interested take a peek and any opinions, suggestions, thoughts and so on are appreciated.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...e/7-9-08024.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...e/7-9-08025.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...e/7-9-08027.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...e/7-9-08038.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x12/479...e/7-9-08022.jpg

 

[lyn_j]

I have to say as well that the new pics look like a productive bag brewing but possibly a month or more out. This mare has not looked pregnant to me in the pictures prior. I have been doing this for 30 years and I , like Annette an stumped. Carbon did this to me last year, but then had a false pregnancy, false labor that certainly looked real, a phantom foal that she called to, then the bag disapeared a few days later.

I would be ready for either a foal or the possibility of a false pregnancy. This is a clever mare!

Lyn

 

[Magic]

That statement is exactly why I and others feel uneasy to ask, members assume motive. ............................I hope yall understand its not that newbies are trying to be difficult, its a matter of inexperience and lack of confidence. We truly need help. It is discouraging to be reprimanded for asking from those with more experience.

I wasn't "assuming motive", I was asking. I'm sorry to ask.

I wasn't "reprimanding" either, or as you said on another post, "being snippy", or at least that wasn't my intention. You seemed to want opinions from more people since you kept asking, so I gave my opinion. I'm really sorry I did. I'll just bow out of this entire discussion, I apologize for even entering it.