Amazing GAITS

[Robin1]

First of all, I'm not defending anything here so please get off it. I am only appreciating a very different sort of talent that happens to be controversial

The problem here is that this in NOT a "talent" :smileypuke: . It is something that a human has made a horse do. If you ever get the chance to watch these beautiful horses out in an open pasture, you will see how they move when allowed to do their own thing.

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Take one of those horses and put it in "training" and it will move like the horses in that video. :no:

Robin

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I agree- it is training only, and the methods are disgusting too. Any horse that requires heavy weights or even weighted shoes- that's silly, it isn't the action of the animals at all, it is merely intervention. Who is to say that any breed could not be forced into such an action?? I was amazed at how much I like the natural gaited horse- I have never had a chance to watch this before. I cannot fro the life of me understand why anyone would allow the tormenting of these beautiful animals, and in the ring, for the "pleasure" of the crowd!! Rather more like a Roman Circus than a genuine equine event.

Ban the exaggerated movement altogether- the original, natural gaits are so fascinating- of course thay do take a degree of intelligence and concentration to appreciate.

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[shminifancier]

I will agree with most here it is so artificial and sure not good for the animal to go through what they have to and put up with.. Sure is not a natural way of going at all.

 

[Kim Rule]

I used to train and show plantation horses...like the first videos. (If I make a typo, it's because there is a cat sitting in front of my screen, trying to play with the smilies!) anyway...

I saw what goes on behind the scenes in the TWH world. It was a crying shame. These are great horses, and are comfortable to ride IF you get a good, natural walker. Natural walkers were few and far between in the 80's when I was training.

There are some TWHs who can walk barefoot...but the weighted shoes accentuate the movement. (at least that's the theory) The mares I had in training were wonderful to ride, shod or not. One of them was used by a sheriff's volunteer deputy...she went into the mountains for search and rescue. Both horses were used on trails, and they were great to ride.

I was lucky. The owners that I worked for wanted as little shoe as possible on their horses. The horse ridden western in the video may have flat shoes, but I'll bet they are weighted, and cover almost the entire botton of his hoof. I rode behind horses who had that. I would see a flash of silver every time they picked up their hooves. The trick is that the toes in front are left long, and there is as much hoof taken off the back as possible. They also have calks on the back shoes so that the (this cat is getting annoying!) horse has lots of traction, and can slide those back feet far underneath them.

The big lick horses usually pace barefoot, rather than do a running walk. I had a trainer tell me that he could make any pacey TWH into a wonderful big lick horse. In the 80's there were people breeding for the pacy TWH, so they could train them to be big lick horses. Their movement is unnatural, and they usually don't last long in the show ring. There were inspectors at every show, checking to see if horses were sored, and that the chains and weights on the horses had smooth surfaces.

THAT BEING SAID...(Okay, the cat left!)

I was at a trainer's getting some pointers on a horse I was working with. When we were done, and I put her away, the trainer got out a big lick horse to work. I was a railbird, watching this horse like a hawk. He stopped the horse, and called me into the arena. "Who, me?" He shortened the stirrup, and told me to get into the saddle. I did, and WHAT A RIDE!!! I have NEVER felt such power under me as on that day! It's like riding a rocket! Not that I would EVER in a million years put weighted shoes and pads on a horse to make them move like that, but it answered my question about why people do that.

I agree that the big lick horses should be banned. The people I talked to in the TWH world said that the big lick horses brought in the crowds that paid to watch the shows. They told me that everyone liked the shows that they put on. I have to say that I walked away, thinking that no horse's life was worth that kind of a show. The trainer that I visitied and whose horse I rode that day so long ago treated his horses well, or so I thought. The barn was clean, he was meticulious about how his horses were kept. But years later I heard that he had been banned for drugging his horses. It's so sad.

Kim R.

 

[mininik]

"The problem here is that this in NOT a "talent". It is something that a human has made a horse do."

"I agree- it is training only, and the methods are disgusting too. Any horse that requires heavy weights or even weighted shoes- that's silly, it isn't the action of the animals at all, it is merely intervention. Who is to say that any breed could not be forced into such an action?? "

Like I said earlier, past the issues of soring, gingering, etc. which ARE WRONG it really comes down to what someone considers to be "abuse" (ie. padded shoes, lightweight chains, etc.). Like it or not, big lick performers are showing a TALENT albiet enhanced just as a Reiner or Jumper or Western Pleasure or Park horse is. If horses weren't physically able to move like that they wouldn't or at least they wouldn't for long. Do you really suppose someone could make say, a thoroughbred move like a flat shod OR a big lick TWH even with outright abuse and torchure (Jane)? Come on...

 

[mininik]

"I used to train and show plantation horses...like the first videos. (If I make a typo, it's because there is a cat sitting in front of my screen, trying to play with the smilies!) anyway..."

Thanks for your post, Kim, cat and all!

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[runamuk]

there is not a breed of horse or pony that is free from abuses of some sort.............for some reason bad trainers can be found anywhere there is a buck to be made

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balding, greasing, gooping, gingering, heavy shoes, chains, weighted boots, bands, nicking, drugging, bloodletting, eye drops, high tying, soring, lasix, steroids, confinement, hot prodding, nailing, whipping, barbed wire bits,

I have witnessed every one of these things in my years in arabian, quarterhorse/paint, and mixed discipline/breed barns ....I have worked in barns with morgans, arabians, saddlebreds, nsh, twh, peruvian paso's, quarter horses, paints, thoroughbreds, warmbloods, shetlands, and miniatures.......I have attended shows for almost all of these breeds and no breed is immune from those who would use shortcuts to win and make money........this is the dark side of the horse industry ..........I don't see how arguing over it is getting us anywhere.....or how it is helping stop the abuses........

I think envy was simply sharing that she had never seen anything quite like this .....she did not seem to me to be supporting any abuse it took to get there......

 

[mininik]

"I think envy was simply sharing that she had never seen anything quite like this .....she did not seem to me to be supporting any abuse it took to get there......" runamuk

THANK YOU! I think I tried to make that same point in my second post before this thread got so out of hand...

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[_minihorses4ever_]

All I can say is eek at those performance horses. Definetly not my taste.. at all.

What exactly does "big lick" mean?

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

I have an unshod TWH mare who is the most fluid mover I have ever seen. It's like her legs aren't really connected anywhere- it's so odd to watch her move! She stands about 16hh and when she comes into the barn she has to make a sharp left turn to go into her stall- and never bumps the walls. Same to go out. So far I've seen her walk, trot, canter, pace and running walk. And I will never inflict chains on her. She's too sweet. She's going to be a trail horse.

I do have to admit, they way they walk is amazing. Unnatural, but amazing. I had seen it several years ago on TV and was horrified.

Lucy

 

[Kim Rule]

Minihorses4ever-"Big Lick" refers to the huge strides that the heavily shod show horses have. It is not unusual to have the hind foot overstep the front hoofprint by 36 inches or more! The lick refers to the overstride that the TWH's do.

I have seen gingering in arabs, doping in racing, and heard of many abuses in other breeds as well. I have heard of putting slick shoes on a quarter horse, and making them slide down an icy hill so they could get the idea of a sliding stop. I have seen arabs not win because of the whip marks that were on them when they came into the ring (good for the judge!) But I have to say that the damage caused by the pads and heavy shoes is incredible. Mind you, those pads cover the whole foot...how can air get in there? The trainer I was associated with told me of getting horses from other trainers, pulling off the pads and shoes, and finding maggots!! :smileypuke:

But there is something worse...and that is when we see such abuse and do nothing. The first miniature horse show I ever saw, was great fun. But I saw something that greatly disturbed me. A woman was grooming her stallion. Her stallion, granted, was being a butthead, but she knocked him over onto the ground...TWICE!!! And I did nothing. and nobody else did either. A couple of years later, that same woman was driving the same stallion in a park horse class. His head was checked up so tightly that he had blood mixed with foam coming out of his mouth. And nobody did anything. Not even me. To my knowlege there were no protests filed, no other competitor made a complaint, and I sat on my hands when this magnificent stallion was in so much pain.

Is this all in the name of good sportsmanship? Are we trying to "keep the peace"? At what price? This woman has also been seen at shows slapping and screaming at her children. Where are the other adults who let it happen? Remember folks, I'm one of those by-standers too...so how do we get the courage to face the people who abuse their animals, or children? How do we step in for those who are unable to speak? I don't know...I'm hoping someone out there has the answer...

Kim R.

 

[runamuk]

But I saw something that greatly disturbed me. A woman was grooming her stallion. Her stallion, granted, was being a butthead, but she knocked him over onto the ground...TWICE!!! And I did nothing.

Kim R.

Well I don't know about you but my fabulous ability to open mouth insert foot has lead to me saying things maybe I shouldn't have..................I once asked someone if they would like me to beat on them like they were the horse they were whipping or if they would prefer I would gladly shove that whip so far up their axx that it would come out their nose

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: no I am not PC and I hate seeing blatant abuse and yes I am darn lucky I haven't had the cr@p beat out of me :bgrin I like to make sure when I confont someone doing something vile that I do it LOUD and with lots of witnesses who will if nothing else STARE :new_shocked: :new_shocked:

:bgrin :bgrin

 

[KrazyHorses]

This is my TWH gelding. He is going to be 19 this March. He is healthy as a...'horse' (LOL)...

I cannot, in words, describe how incredible he is...gentle and patient.

Knowing other horses is my life, I can agree with keeping mini's seperate from big horses...

BUT, Dip looks out for his two 'girls' (mini's) like they were his own children (or grandchildren).

Now, on to his gait...He has the smoothest "glide" ride around....and I do not ride that often. I can get on him after two months in the pasture and take him for a ride around the neighborhood. My butt never leaves the saddle, but we sure are cruisin' along.

Dip is barefoot, no shoes, no chains, no soring. His gait is all natural. I've seen videos of young TWH foals who gait right along side of their mothers.

Abuse to get an exaggerated gait is unacceptable, but the natural gait of a TWH is a God given talent

 

[mininik]

*bump* Someone is looking for this thread...

 

[tracyCCF]

Hello, to everyone here, I did not read this thread. Let me say that right off the bat, I saw the other posting and it got my curiosity. I have miniatures ( a whole lot of them, so I am thrilled reading this forum, although I dont post too often, But do read every day)

Now saying that, I have 6 performance padded tennessee walking horses. I show a gelding, and five stallions, none live at home, all live at the trainers. The most docile animal you will ever own. Now I didnt read this post, but will be glad to give you a walking horse perspective. I wont take up for , how did you put it, BIG lick trainers, show persons, owners, or fanciers, but I will give my honest perception of the industry. I will ask this, dont flame me, I am not joining in this for any other reason than to give a walking horse perspective.

I also wont run the Tennessee trainers, owners, etc. down. Some of the perceptions are just not right anymore. I did read the equus story with great interest, and completely disagreed with several aspects, but also saw truth in some of it. The USDA is involved and most of the pictures you saw in Equus were very, shall we say, OLD pictures. Those pictures are very old and dated, not what you would see today. They would never make it to a horse show today.

I have a "stake" horse, (which is the final class of the evening at these shows, the best of the best, supposedly. They have to do a flat foot walk, running walk, and a "rocking chair type" canter. They are supposed to really be strided, big front ends, long steps, ( some nod, some just dont, they are not so concerned with that anymore). Now I will say this, my horse shows COMPLETELY SOUND. He does wear a 6 ounce chain, ( so some of you may not think that is sound) and is worked in that at the barn. He is completely natural, does quite well , but he may be unusual, I just dont know about that.

I have a gelding , who is my pride and joy, iI always bring him home over the winter, and just for information, will not go outside, will not drink water ( unless it is chest level) , will not step on snow, or in mud. HE prefers (PREFERS) in the stall. Everyone says it is because he has been in a stall sincehe was three, but he is just 8 ,and has been coming home for the last 4 years. He actually does not like the pasture life. I was disappointed this fall, as I planned on retiring him. he just wasnt happy. I took him back to the trainer after the first of the year, and if horses could talk, he was so happy to see his buddies. He actually perked up. Now this horse, literally takes a peppermint out of my hand at the end of each class in the lineup (with me on him) and leaves the ring, with a pink foamy mouth. He loves to show and actually gets upset when he doesnt win. Anyone that knows him, notices how upset he gets, if he isnt called out first. And he does try his hardest. He LOVES TO show. These horses can wear up to 6 ounces of chain, and that does help animate their gate. You can see a big difference in their motion with or without a chain.

Now saying that, I am not looking for a fight, will not get into some argument about whats right or wrong, but will be glad to answer ay questions, soring does happen some places, maybe moreso than I even think, where competition gets the better of some people. Soring does happen in several gaited breeds, as well as many other not so right things in other breeds, but to condemn a whole industry, its just not right. I wish any of you that thought these horses are tortured, would come and watch a DQP (inspector) check their feet. THIS HAPPENS AT EVERY SANCTIONED SHOW. Then at some show, actual government officials come unannounced and check what the DQPs check. They cannot even flinch or you can get wrote up. I mean the slighters flinch, and some horses will flinch just because they dont want you to touch them. You can always tell a sored horse, once you actually see one. I welcome anyone here to come to our barn any day, and week, and at ANY horse show, and we go all over all year.

The USDA , ( where I work actually in another department) is aware of the different problems with the industry, and they do send representatives down to check random shows, and if you get caught, your first ( minimum offense, can be much more with each additional offense) starts at two weeks suspension. Now, if you are a horse trainer, you cannot afford to lose even two weeks, but each additional offense, gets MUCH longer.

Please, dont lay all the soring, to padded tennessee walking horses, anyone will tell you, it happens just as much to plantation, performance, and many , many , other animals. Please dont take offense at me, I just would like to get out some information to at least clarify some misconceptions.

I have had walking horses for 28 years, padded ones for the last 6. I have been in several barns, and have seen some bad things, and when I did, I moved all my horses, I dont pay good money for poor treatment of my animals, and most owners do feel as I do. The hard core ones , as many people are misinformed are much less in numbers. Note: I also have seen some questionable practices in other breeds as well.