AMHA closing its books in 2013

[HGFarm]

I think there are a lot more oversized horses out there registered as A that people are willing to admit. You have never been to a big breeding farm and the 'tour' just skipped some of those 'back pastures' where they are housed? I have seen MANY, on big and small farms, that have what I have heard refered to as a "Texas 34", so let's not fool ourselves. I am sure that to many, it is tough to think about losing a valuable, well bred animal with top bloodlines and conformation, because it is a fraction of an inch oversized- that could be bred back with a smaller mate to produce more top quality offspring that are under 34". (Just playing devil's advocate here on why it is probably done- not saying it is right)

I myself have a mare that is slightly over and her A papers will be canceled... a shame as I am sure, being bred back to a small stallion, that her offspring would more than likely qualify as under 34".

Since there is never a guarantee on size- I have seen 30" horses produce some that matured WELL over 34"- how is this benefiting the breed to close the books? It is not going to guarantee anyone's foals to mature under 34" any more than they do now.

 

[krissy3]

Well this is really interesting. It got me thinking so I went to the stud books and checked the foals we have bred. Here are the stats:

66 total foals registered

13 marked as RV (revoked)

One of those I am sure went oversize. One 'might' have gone over. The rest were never taken permanent and for sure didn't go over.....may not have gone over 30"! (oh, one of the RV and one that will soon be RV are deceased)

6 are due to go perm this year or next and have never been transfered out of our name so I'd say those will end up RV too. (I didn't record how many under 4 years of age are still in our name)

If our farm is an example of how the stats run I guess something like 98% of RV horses just never got taken perm? That's what it sounds like to me.

I think when people aren't showing horses or aren't breeding they see no reason to have any interest in paperwork. And those that are exported are often registered with a foreign organization so never get taken perm or even transferred. I don't see any way to change this.

(I sure am glad I'm not having to FEED all of those horses I own!)

So I'd say the bottom line is REVOKED papers is most likely a case of paperwork not done rather than lots and lots of oversize horses out there.

Charlotte

I have to say that some people here in switzerland wont do the paperwork because they are not showing , and cant read English. I have done the paperwork for people , because its a bit overwhelming for them. It would be great if the AMHA could get their rule book and form translated into German.

 

[Sue_C.]

I wonder if it could be translated individually on-line? I know there are programs that will translate, and the rule book is available on-line, isn't it?

 

[JWC sr.]

In trying to promote the AMHA miniature as a breed, one of the things that will have to be addressed is horses from AMHA registered horses that go over sized. If they are not allowed to keep the papers they are born with, but not allowed to show due to the show rules we will end up in a law suit much the same as AQHA did over the white issue.

And with that decision as a legal precedent it would be a small matter for courts to find in the favor of a plaintiff that had filed a lawsuit over that issue.

We can't have it both ways legally, either we are a height registry and can exclude horses over a certain height or we are a breed where horses born of registered parents have a right to those papers legally.

Something to think about, at least the above is the opinion of a good friend that is a very good lawyer with a ton of equine experience first hand here in Texas.

 

[Minimor]

They are beautiful, but I prefer having a horse that looks just like a Miniature Horse, not a Miniature Pony) Many breeds of horses, do not look like ponies.

Quite honestly, these days the American Shetland doesn’t look much like a “pony” either—not a good many of them anyway. There are many ponies out there who look very horse-like. In fact, in photos that have nothing to give a comparison for size, in many cases the ponies can easily be mistaken for full size horses—truly much more often than Miniatures can be. From what I’ve seen the small ponies that are in AMHR look as much (often more) like a miniature horse than many Miniature Horses do!

 

[Joanne]

O.K. History pros.

AMHA at one time did allow oversize breeding stock.

Were any of you around at that time that could clue us into why that was stopped?

 

[disneyhorse]

In trying to promote the AMHA miniature as a breed, one of the things that will have to be addressed is horses from AMHA registered horses that go over sized. If they are not allowed to keep the papers they are born with, but not allowed to show due to the show rules we will end up in a law suit much the same as AQHA did over the white issue.

And with that decision as a legal precedent it would be a small matter for courts to find in the favor of a plaintiff that had filed a lawsuit over that issue.

We can't have it both ways legally, either we are a height registry and can exclude horses over a certain height or we are a breed where horses born of registered parents have a right to those papers legally.

Something to think about, at least the above is the opinion of a good friend that is a very good lawyer with a ton of equine experience first hand here in Texas.

The ASPC Shetland ponies have a height limit to show, however they never get their papers pulled for height and are allowed full breeding rights. I could see the AMHA setting rules to limit show heights.

As a side note, my friend breeds Friesians and she said that in order to be approved for breeding, a Friesian stallion cannot measure more than 17 hands. This helps monitor size a little bit in the Friesians, but they have a lot of things they are approved on also.

Andrea

 

[loveminis]

Now are we talking about AMHA closing the books to AMHR Hardship or registering over sized minis ?

 

[sfmini]

AMHA is closing the books to ALL hardshipping.

 

[Mona]

O.K. History pros.

AMHA at one time did allow oversize breeding stock.

Were any of you around at that time that could clue us into why that was stopped?

Joanne, it is my understanding that what you are referring to happened because there were MANY, MANY horses registered in AMHA where their registration papers stated they were 34" or less, but were indeed taller, so this was to allow the owners of these horses to "come clean", and provide the actual correct height of these horses, without loss of registration or any other disciplinary measures, thus providing more honest history/background on these horses. It was a set time limit, that horses born before a certain year (I think maybe '89??) would be eligible for this "foundation oversize" acceptance/approval.

If this is not correct, I am sure someone will correct me, but this is how I understood it to be back (how it was explained to me) when I got into the minis in the early 90's.

 

[~Lisa~]

I had a couple of those oversize AMHA registered horses years ago when I first started I can not remember for the life of me what it said on the papers it was a red stamp and I am pretty sure it said Oversize Stock or Foundation Oversize maybe

 

[HGFarm]

They were considered Foundation Oversize- some friends had a couple, and they produced small, but they certainly didnt breed them to other huge Minis.

POA's dont revoke papers on oversized ones, but they are not allowed to compete in POA sanctioned shows, etc.... however, they are used as breeding stock. I believe they have to be bred back to 'regular sized' POA's- would have to check my rule book. Appaloosas used to allow the non colored horses as breeding stock only too and they were not eligable to show either at one time. No lawsuits over those. Those were the rules, as they wanted to promote what they SHOULD look like and what was desirable for the breed, which every one still worked for.

I dont think any purposely breeds for an oversized A, especially when you want it to be able to show, but it happens. However, AMHA seems to want to just throw those horses away. It is never going to stop oversized foals from happening..... it's just part of their DNA and the luck of the draw. It's a shame that they dont make some provision for these horses, rather than the one they have now, which is 'out the door'.

If I had an oversized mare, I would be careful to breed her to a small stallion, in hopes of getting a nice sized under 34" to be able to compete. I dont think anyone in their right mind would breed it to another large Mini, expecting the foal to stay under. Allowing oversized breeding stock, which happens in my opinion anyhow- nobody wants to admit it- is not going to make the breed end up huge- folks are still going to STRIVE for something showable.

 

[Karin - NaKar Miniatures]

First of all, I wasn't for closing the registry. But since they did, AMHA should make a provision of some sort for the ones that go over. I have to pretty much agree with what John Cherry said. I believe there could be legal issues ahead for AMHA. They can't just "throw" these horses away.

I just don't feel that they can be a "BREED" and a "HEIGHT" registry at the same time. You can't have it both ways.

An AMHA horse bred to and AMHA horse = an AMHA horse!!!

I do agree that they should have an oversized breeding stock division for those horses that go over 34'. They could just not allow the over horses to be shown.