AMHR National Late Entries

[ctinsley]

well jill, thank you so much for the meanings of rule book and deadline, I'm sure no one was smart enough to know that. You know IRS also has a deadline, but I have not seen them turning them down if past the deadline date, people just pay a "fine" do you need the meaning?

 

[Jill]

well jill, thank you so much for the meanings of rule book and deadline, I'm sure no one was smart enough to know that. You know IRS also has a deadline, but I have not seen them turning them down if past the deadline date, people just pay a "fine" do you need the meaning?

You're welcome, ctinsley.

The Internal Revenue Code (which would be the IRS Rule Book) in section IRC 6081 allows for extensions to file a return. IRC Section 6651 allows for penalties and fines for late payments.

Can you reference where exceptions are allowed and conditions spelled out in the AMHR Rule Book?

 

[RayVik]

I would like to think our organization is more of a service oriented entity and functions with a sense of openmindedness towards it enrichment of purpose not withstanding it is or put another way it must consider all aspects of its rules their enforcement and their consequences

Rather the reference law albeit our complicated and ever changing tax law would our interest not be better served to consider referencing customer service concepts as for example not being turned away from a restaurant that closes at 9:00 pm and you arrive at 9:01pm. Do you turn people away because your sign say your hours means your closed or do you serve those people because after all you are a restaurant in the business of serving food. Or a airline that turns you away because you ticket was for 6:37 and the plane is delayed but your ticket says your late or the car dealer who say come back tomorrow to buy the car your wanting because it's 8:01 and they close at 8:00 as my grandmother used to say it seems we are sort of cutting off our nose to spite our face on this if we turn away what is rumored to be something approaching 10% of our national show entries

I understand it's not going to be decided by any of us here on this board but It does bring to light the differences we have in opinions concerning our organization and how it should operate

 

[Davie]

Sorry RayVik, there has been more than one ocassion when at shows that we have gone out for a late dinner and been met at the door by the manager who was locking the door--customer's still inside. Manager said if we don't close when stated we would never get out of here. So guess there are reasons for deadlines -- restaurants closing hours, entry deadlines, filing deadlines, work deadlines, project completion deadlines, construction deadlines--could go on.

Show Class deadlines--if you miss your class are they going to let you have your $$$ back. You know when your class is, if you don't have a gate hold and the gate is shut after the alloted time do you get in--most of the time NO.

I've also been turned away from an airline gate because our flight was just a couple of minutes late, our connecting flight was at the gate but they said the door had been shut and they would not re-open it (gates were just across the concourse from each other).

JMO, but I was able to get my entries off on time even though I was extremely ill--I made the effort and got it done.

 

[Crabtree Farm]

A better example would be when you get a notice to have your power cut off if payment I'd not received by a certain time/date. If they don't receive your payment (envelope) they shut your power off.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

Sorry RayVik, there has been more than one ocassion when at shows that we have gone out for a late dinner and been met at the door by the manager who was locking the door--customer's still inside. Manager said if we don't close when stated we would never get out of here.

Exactly. I worked in my dad's restaurant for over ten years. Close at 9PM meant CLOSED. If you kept letting people in you would never get done and get home.

Not to mention, he told me once that insurance would NOT cover you if you let someone in after hours and they robbed you!

AND as your helpful reminder: World entries are due Aug 21st!! One week from tomorrow!

 

[drivinghoss]

It is great that this issue is out there for all to see. There needs to be more transparency in the decisions and actions taken by the board.

I am sure there have been other issues that were taken care of with out all the members knowing the issues or outcomes.

If this issue is addressed publicly and explained fully, the members will have more respect and trust in the Board of Directors.

 

[tikigirl]

SO, What was the decision, did they let them in or not? Would be interested to know since I made sure I completed mine on time!

 

[maestoso]

I too feel for the clients, youth, and friends involved who may not get their horses shown because they relied on someone else, however...

I feel for the exhibitor who worked their butt off and met the deadlines, followed the rules, and will lose to the exhibitor who did not. If I was that exhibitor, I would be angry and I would lose faith in AMHR.

I think it's a little silly that they don't allow post entries, but the fact is, they don't. They haven't. The deadline was not a surprise, it wasn't the result of a rule change, it did not come out of no where.

This is not about all those things the original poster stated. These late entrants were careless and/or forgetful and that's all there is to it. Rules are rules and they are not meant to be broken. What is the point to a deadline if we allow a grace period? What happens when someone wants a grace period to the grace period?

I don't think these horses should be allowed to show. If they do let them in, AMHR will open itself up to a huge can of worms. If let in, the next time someone missed a deadline or a rule is in question, this incident will be referenced and AMHR will have no ground to stand on. I'm sorry to those who this effects. You need to look to the people who let you down, not the registry who gave you everything you needed to get entered. AMHR did its job, these 6 entrants did not. It is an unfortunate mistake that these trainers/exhibitors will never make again, I'm sure.

 

[Mona]

Excellent post Matt!

 

[kaykay]

I have been told by 2 different directors that there will be no BOD vote on this matter. They may discuss it via conference call (although even that is not set in stone) but there is no vote being taken. The entries were denied and returned.

I am surprised that many posting in favor of letting them in are normally very big on sticking to the rule book to the letter.

At the end of the day this show will be held again next year. And the year after and .....

 

[Flying minis]

Ok, so I have to ask, and if noone wants to put it on the forum, they can PM me. What happened in 2008? I wasn't involved with minis then, but keep hearing references to "what happened before" and now to "what happened in 2008"? Can someone enlighten me? Maybe some historical knowledge would be helpful in looking at current situations.

 

[Jill]

Long, upsetting story short: In 2008, some horses who had not qualified for Nationals showed at the Nationals and won or placed nicely. After people began to realize the horses in question had not qualified, there was a period of time where it went back and forth if those horses would keep their wins or not. In the end, they kept them. One of my horses took a Res. National Grand Champion title to an unqualified horse's "Grand"... Halter and driving classes were effected, and maybe others as well.

 

[ctinsley]

If the horses were not qualified, why did the registry not take there winnings from them, there is a big difference from sending late entries to totally not being qualified. The next horse in line should have moved up. We had a 2 year old fut filly (we were told she was in the fut) she placed quite nicely, apparently was not checked when entries were sent in but when sending the checks out she was bumped out and she should have been.

 

[Jill]

If the horses were not qualified, why did the registry not take there winnings from them...

Because the right thing doesn't always happen.

 

[ohmt]

So the people effected by the post office error do not get to show, but in previous years horses that didn't even qualify were allowed to show and keep their placings?!

What in the world...how incredibly disappointing.

 

[Minimor]

For one thing, AMHR was partly to blame that year in that the entry form did not include the usual box where qualifying shows are supposed to be listed. BOD members have told me that when the office had an error in the entry forms they could not legally penalize owners for their error in showing horses that were not qualified. That is a good part of the reason the non-qualified horses did not have their awards taken away.

 

[Flying minis]

Thanks Jill, now I have some background, and I can certainly see why those who were involved in 2008 would want to ensure we "play by the rules" now. It makes a difference to know where people's viewpoints are coming from. I do think it muddies the water however, since the rules were not followed in that instance, if they are now it certainly seems like "reverse favoritism" - in other words, someone being penalized because of a prior incident, rather than being favored because of it.

I don't know what the answer is - I can see both sides clearly. I think in the end, perhaps it's like what my father always said about election voting - in the end, people tend to vote their pocketbooks. In these economic times, can we afford to disqualify 10% of our entries, and the associated $ they will bring in, and possibly alienate them all together?

However, at MINIMUM, I would say there needs to be a rule change proposal to address this situation in the future.

 

[kaykay]

To compare 2008 to this is apples to oranges. Totally different situations. 2008 was basically a clerical error (leaving the qualification off the form) that enabled people that knew better to keep their placings on horses that should have never shown at Nationals. Well and some other stuff was involved in that but no sense going there.

Not at all the same situation.

One thing I know is if it was me or some other small farm not a big name trainer/person, no one would care and it wouldn't even be an issue.

 

[Belinda]

The only thing I will comment on this Topic is when comparing to 2008 besides that you all do not have all the FACTS , and it is Apples to Oranges ,

THIS IS DIFFERENT BOARD !! Many who were on the board at that time are no longer on the board now so we have different views for several of the new members who are and should be about following rules !!! You can not hold folks accountable for what someone else has done in the past ..

I can assure you this is not being taken lightly !!!! This is terrible for all concerned including the board . So believe me when I say this is being looked at