Anyone else get an email from Martha Hickham

[LaVern]

I agree with almost everything Robin except that there is a huge size difference in the A and Bs.

This is all there is supposeded to be

I---------------------1------------------2-------------------3------------------4

And if I have a 6- 7 generation B miniature horse that is bred to be a B and it goes over 38 inches it is worth just as much as most Shetlands that can't show AMHR. (If it is pretty and gentle) I feel, anyway.

We don't get many over 38s, but it happens and they are much more in demand( no papers) than the little tiny ones, for family horses, because of usability and miniature temperment. Renee Lucky Hart Ranch

 

[ClickMini]

I competed at R Nationals this year for the first time, and I went as a spectator in 2005. I can assure everyone, that the classes for the 34" and under horses were just as full, if not more full, than the over 34". That tells me a lot about the value of having ALL stock under 38" registered in AMHR. The futurity classes, the halter classes, the driving classes, all full. Driving classes needing to be split due to large entries. If AMHR is seen as second class, that doesn't make any sense to me at all. To compete and win in those VERY large classes, requires one heck of a horse!

I believe the reason that this thread has strayed from the primary issue of the original post, is that the original post did include pretty much all of the issues being discussed: measuring in at the shows, alleged corruption of the AMHA leadership, closing the registry.

Three consistent themes seem to emerge as the primary issues that need to be addressed:

1. MEASURING: what is the most effective way to get the job done consistently and fairly. So many people here, in fact most, are in favor of measuring at the withers. I was at the meeting last year and this was voted down. WHY? If we the people are AMHA, and most are in favor, why is that not being voted in?

2. HARDSHIP REGISTRATION: I don't know the numbers on how many horses are hardship registered each year, but I am betting the number is relatively small. The cost for hardship registering a breeding animal is not insignificant ($1200 for a stallion, $600 for a mare, not exactly pocket change!). I am pretty sure that someone who makes this investment believes that the animals they are registering are truly of a top quality, worthy of joining the ranks of AMHA. Why someone would think that the dollar amount isn't a significant enough hurdle to keep out the undesirable, I can't imagine.

My personal opinion on hardship registration in particular is that it should be opened up at any age the owner wants to gamble on. This would allow a person to show their youngsters at the local level, which in turn ensures the health of the local clubs. If the local clubs fail, a region could very quickly lose all of the AMHA shows. No qualifying for worlds. The AMHR shows would quickly take up the slack, I can assure you. No local clubs, no AMHA. It is really that simple. And honestly, how many people would take a $600-1200 gamble on a horse they thought was going over 34"? I am far from being destitute, but I can assure you I would not!

3. OVER 34" HORSES: Do we allow a breeding stock registration for overheight horses? The opinion seems to be very split on this issue. At this time, it seems most resolve the issue by dual registration. That seems an imperfect solution for AMHA, as has been pointed out in this thread. What if AMHR closes hardshipping to AMHA horses? And how much money is AMHA losing (not to mention future registration and showing revenue from the under 34" offspring of these animals, ESPECIALLY if hardship registration is closed).

Would things be different if absentee voting on the issues was allowed? I see this as being one of the primary issues! We, every member of AMHA ARE THE AMHA! So why aren't we able to get things accomplished? Getting results on a proposal requires it being voted on by the membership at the annual meeting. This meeting is held at a time that many breeders cannot get away. Traveling to the meeting can be very cost-prohibitive. There are many reasons why the membership is guided by a select few, and I see this as being THE BIG ONE. The way to really open up the leadership of this registry and have rules be decided on by the collective group is to enable and allow some sort of absentee voting. Perhaps webcasting the meeting where rule changes are presented and discussed, and having a dedicated and moderated discussion forum on the web for proposals. Have mail-in or web voting. This is not an impossible task! For heck sake, we can vote for the president of the United States by mail, why not an AMHA rule change? This might be a way to get rules effected more quickly as well. There was a sub-committee formed at the last annual meeting to investigate web voting. I signed up for it, but have never received a single correspondence on this. A big step forward I think is our ability to view a web cast of the meeting this year. KUDOS to whomever was able to get this one off the ground! But let's take the next step to truly opening up the guidance of the registry to the members, by figuring out how to open up the voting.

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I've been reading this thread for days and have basically stayed out of it. I'm a relative newcomer compared to many who are in on this debate/issue, but I do have some opinions.

First of all, my interpretation of the issue is that, regardless of height, measure it accurately! This is NOT about the value of a 34.5" horse versus a 29" horse. It's about people doing their jobs with integrity and honesty.

Secondly, the registries both have very clear guidelines on height. If you don't agree, either rally to have the rules changed or live with them. If your AMHA sire and dam produce a 35" foal, &%$# happens! You know the rules, don't %$ and complain about it. That can happen when breeding anything! How about having all your horses double-registered and then you won't have to worry about it. That's what I do. I PAY for the ability to have my horses registered regardless of height.

And totally off the main subject, but since others have chosen to go here, so will I. Are people really having trouble selling their under 30" horses for a decent price? I buy AND sell my under 30" horses for great prices. If the horse is quality, it will bring a good price. And I resent the repeated reference to "dwarfy" under 30" horses. Is it more difficult to produce a conformationally correct 28" horse? Sure! But that's the challenge! I'm up to it. If you're not, that's fine, but don't make blanket statements about other breeding programs. It's too obvious and self-serving. If I have an average quality horse, I offer it for an average price. But my correct, refined tiny ones? No, they aren't going anywhere for nothing. And oddly enough, doesn't seem like my clients expect that. They'll pay if the quality is there. Just like I will when I'm purchasing new stock.

Little Kings Buck Echo is under 30". Is he dwarfy? I think not! He's not the only one that's tiny and correct; there are many out there.

OK, off my box.

 

[Robin]

I love the idea of web voting or absentee voting!!!!- it is long been needed in AMHA and I have brought it up several times in the membership committee meetings and marketing meetings. It would be much easier to get people involved and play vital roles in the best interest of the association. I sure wish this one would go thru but they say no- because too much changes at the actual national meeting verses the rule proposals that they print. I think they should have the rule proposals printed- I think they should be worked out in commitee at the National Meeting, proposed there in front of the membership and directors and then e-mail notification out (at minimum) to the members who have signed up for web voting. Then they can vote at that time. Within 1 week, the totals can be done from the actual meeting results and online results and printed for the general membership.

Or another thought--- how many of you have bid online? Why can't the National Meeting be watched online and vote at the same time everyone else does....register with your member id number and password and go forward- this isn't new technology anymore!!!!

Just a thought- but I support you 100% on the absentee ballot/web voting concept. Thanks for mentioning it.

PS- I had a mental lapse when I wrote in my last post- either ASPC or "ASHR" - I meant "NSPR"- as Lisa corrected me on. Thanks Lisa!

Robin-LKF

 

[wiccanz]

I am available to measure at Nationals and Worlds, BTW- just pay my plane fare and give me somewhere to sleep.I would be fearless.

Me too! Myself and my husband are measurers here in NZ. No skin off my nose if some big time trainer throws their toys out of the cot - won't mean a darn thing to me way down her!

Either use measurers from a totally different breed background, or use measurers from FAR away who don't actually know anyone in the US.

Fortunately we don't yet have so many measuring problems down here - yes there is the occasional foot-stamping by some ignorant so-and-so, but they are told that if the measurer feels uncomfortable or intimidated, they will not be measured.

We don't measure at each show either, we have designated measuring days. Youngstock (weanlings to 2 yr olds) are measured every 3 months (or 45 days before National or Regional shows), 3-4 year olds are measured 6 monthly, and 5 and overs are measured annually. A certificate is issued for each horse, and a copy of it must be sent in with show entries. A master sheet of measured horses and their heights is sent to the Registrar after each measuring session.

If you don't like the height at which your horse was measured, you can be remeasured 3 times, and an average will be taken as the height. If you still refuse the certificate, you are not entitled to be remeasured for 28 days. And the recorded height goes on file.

Protests at shows must be made within one hour of the alleged incident (if it is concerning height, that means within 1 hour of the class the horse was entered in).

No system will ever be perfect, but at the moment, this works well for us down here.

 

[tagalong]

I am sorry, but all of this hubbub is one of the reasons I choose not to go to AMHA shows. There is always some controversey and always someone sneaking in. I am not saying that it doesn't happen in other venues, but you can usually guarantee something "slick" going on at the AMHA shows.

Generalizations like this help no one. And they serve no purpose. I have been to many A shows where everyone was having a great time - and nothing "slick" seemed to be tainting anything. No controversy, No uproars. Ditto for R shows - although something"slick" could be going on there as well I suppose...

Measuring can also be a questionable event at AMHR shows. Horses that win in Over are suddenly cleaning up in Under... some in the 38" class seem to tower over the others... *shrug*

ALL the measuring needs to standardized, regulated and cleaned up...

IMO at least Ed - out of many trainers who know what they have gotten away with in the past - is bringing things up front and center, admitting to past infractions and looking for change. It is somewhat encouraging that - contrary to what some trainers have said in the past - the trainers do not all need to stick together.

 

[Cathy_H]

For we old timers that have been on this forum since the beginning we have heard this hashed & rehased every year after the Nationals....

It usually was just the little farms & the amateurs voicing their frustrations of not getting a fair shake and not being heard................................. I find this comical really - the problem had to work its way up the food chain before the bigger fish got the message........... Until enough of the big guys jump aboard & push to get this measuring fiasco resolved, it won't happen.................... We have been showing AMHR for several years now. I have seen more & more AMHA exhibitors cross over in the last few years. Years ago some even said they would NEVER show AMHR! I just hope AMHR has eyes wide open & will require the dirty baggage be left outside the door!!! To save anyone from typing this again, Yes, I know AMHR has & will have it's share of politics & unfairness.... If /when it gets to be more than Lee & I are willing to put up with, then we can leave it too................... For those that call this bashing, how else do you propose to get the problems solved? According to some, following the proper channels doesn't always work........ We can use DNA for things unheard of years ago but we still CAN'T measure a horse properly!!! OH! Yes this is a simple procedure - even this simple housewife with just an associates degree could do it. Let me