big news in healthcare

[Jill]

Quite honestly, it doesn't matter to me who here thinks my opinion on this is rude or ignorant. It won't inspire me to change my tune...

I would imagine that if some of those who choose to be offended were actually in my position (too high a tax bracket and a business owner), they might even feel just like I do and if you want to think otherwise -- go for it

Socialism is not an American ideal. That includes taking from those who do to give to those who don't

 

[Danielle_E.]

Socialism in America?I have heard for so long that we are headed for Socialism and that most of us HOPE SOCIALISM FAILS!!! Really? Do you really have any idea what Socialism means? When we think of Socialism,we think of Russia and other Communist countries and the Nazi's. Well their form of Gov't includes some socialism but it is not Socialism, it's Communism,.Fascism, and Nazisim. If we eliminated all the Socailist programs that we have in the U.S.A we would eliminate, Civil service Retirement Systems,Federal Employee Retirement Systems,Railroad Retirement Systems,Public Housing,Low income energy Assistance,Social Security,Unemployment Insurance,Temporary Disability insurance,Medicare,Mediscaid,Medicare Prescription Drug plan, Supplemental Security Income,Food Stamp program,National School Lunch Program,USDA[united Staes dept of Agriculture] ,Federal Communications Commision, Food & Drug administration,Import Tarrifs. This is just scratching the surface of the Socialist programs NOW in place in the GOOD OLE U.S.A. Still want to see Socialist programs FAIL? Socialism is the term that the Right Wing Republicans give to anything the Democrats propose in an attempt to make it look bad. Socialist Programs means they are for the people and not the RICH. I don't want the rich to fail afterall they bankroll the country's growth and economic system but you can't label every program to help us get out of the economic problems we now have in an effort to discredit what is being done by the Obama Administration. .............................Illowa.

 

[Danielle_E.]

I guess the attitude of some in the U.S. is one of non-compassion basically - what is mine is totally mine and I to heck with my fellow citizens. If you lost your job, too bad, not my problem, if your child is really sick and you can't afford the healthcare, you are a bad parent, if you lost your home because your healthcare didn't cover or you were denied coverage by your insurer, too bad, not my problem. Gee, and I keep reading "the U.S. is the best country in the world". I guess if you say it to yourselves over and over you believe it, like brainwashing by a sect or cult. I guess you won't believe than that many non-U.S. citizens don't believe what you are saying for one minute.

I guess the reason that "outsiders" are interested (non-U.S. citizens) is our "compassion" or what we were taught, our beliefs that human dignity should be allotted to all. Isn't that what we work towards when we eighter give to a charity for a worthy cause, or when countries try to help 3rd world nations during famines or times of need - human dignity, the basics.

I hope someday the U.S. will treat all their citizens with dignity and offer you premiums that are affordable and don't allow the insurance companies to basically "rob" you with the ridiculously high premiums "the best country in the world" tries to extort out of it's citizens. I guess it all boils down to free enterprise and the pursuit of the almighty $$. Didn't that work well with Fanny Mae and the likes. As the nursery rhymes goes "Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall..... "

 

[Reble]

Henry Ford: Money Quotes

If money is your hope for independence you will never have it. The only real security that a man will have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience, and ability.

Henry Ford: Money Quotes

It's not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only handle the money.

It's the customer who pays the wages.

Eleanor Roosevelt: Money Quotes

He who loses money, loses much;

He who loses a friend, loses much more;

 

[Tango]

Jill, there are many people in your position today "too high a tax bracket and a business owner" who are no longer in that position. They have no job, no business and no health insurance. Many of those folks have chronic or serious health conditions that will now go without care. I doubt they are feeling today like you are because the real world has just slapped them in the face.

There is an easy way to fix your problem of being in "too high a tax bracket", change jobs.

 

[Sonya]

I don't think anyone wants to see anyone suffer from lack of care, food, or anything. Just because someone does not want a nationalized healthcare system does not mean they are cold-hearted witches who care about no one. Just because people don't approve of hand-outs doesn't mean they don't want to see people helped. There is a fine line from hand-out and hand-up. There are people who take advantage of "systems" and that is what I am against. The systems are suppose to be there to help, not support. And I do feel like Jill, that many in this country do feel a sense of entitlement and they are "owed" something without working for it...that however does not mean that we are against giving a hand-up. Just wanted to point that out.

 

[LowriseMinis]

Socialism is not an American ideal. That includes taking from those who do to give to those who don't[/img]

Would you care to explain phenomena like taxes, government funded universities, and social security then? Those are all every bit as 'socialist' as national health care, and yet they exist in America.

He that is of the opinion money will do everything may well be suspected of doing everything for money.Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)

Our Founding Fathers.

 

[Sonya]

I would not call Social Securtiy a socialistic program...you pay into SS, just like unemployment. Your SS is based on what you have made and put into the system.

 

[LowriseMinis]

so·cial·ism (sō'shə-lĭz'əm) Pronunciation Key n. 1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.

Social Security sounds like socialism to me. So does taxes. A central government entity takes your money, sticks it together, then puts it where they feel is needed.

 

[Tango]

In this country, Social Security IS turning into a "socialistic" program. Social Security no longer just pays to those who pay into it, there are more people out there now that are drawing a Social Security check that have NEVER paid a dime into it than you can shake a stick at! That is why Social Security is in danger of going bust.

And talking about those in this country that feel a sense of "entitlement", I agree. Those are the people that are bleeding our health care and other systems dry! Those are second, third and fourth generation welfare recipients who think that drawing a welfare check IS a job. In my responses on this thread, these are not the people I am referring to at all. I am referring to those who do work, but whose employers do not offer health insurance, to those people that have lost their good paying jobs and the health care that went with it. Those are the people I am referring to. The people in the middle, who always seem to fall throught the cracks.

If you really want to get down to the brass tacks on why our health care system is so high, let's talk about illegal aliens. That is where the biggest portion of the money goes in our health care system. For every illegal alien that gets free health care, the cost of health care rises again and again. That is one of the biggest reasons why the state of California is in the mess it is now.

 

[LowriseMinis]

Tango, a few pages ago I found a link stating "The large majority of the uninsured (80 percent) are native or naturalized citizens." with evidence to back up that claim. I'm not saying that illegal immigrants aren't a burden on our system-especially here in California-but I don't quite believe that they are the biggest expense nationally.

 

[Jill]

Thank you, Sonya. You've got it right but obviously, there are a few ladies who enjoy envisioning me as the Wicked Witch of the East. That's okay, though. Everyone needs something to believe... I believe I'm gonna go take some pictures of my newest foal

:BigGrin

 

[tagalong]

Quite honestly, it doesn't matter to me who here thinks my opinion on this is rude or ignorant. It won't inspire me to change my tune...

Well then, don't change that arrogant tone - and tell me in detail how I do not work hard enough or smart enough - as your amazing psychic abilities have deduced is the reason that I am not as worthy as you are and not able to afford the same kind of health care premiums that you can. Being dismissive and elitist is no way to present any valid points you may have... and only tarnishes your opinion.... especially when you haughtily reiterate that you could care less...

You've got it right but obviously, there are a few ladies who enjoy envisioning me as the Wicked Witch of the East. That's okay, though. Everyone needs something to believe

HUH? Jill - just because someone does not agree wth something you insist is the truth does not mean that "a few ladies" enjoy envisioning you as anything. No point in painting yourself as the hard done by hero, there! I understand that no opinion is ever to be considered except yours - you make that clear in all these threads... but you also might consider how you go about it. I am glad you find it so

... and tres amusant...

LOL.

Please excuse me - I must get back to not working hard enough or smart enough...

 

[Tango]

Sorry Lowrise, I missed your post on that. It may not be a significant percentage nationally, according to the link, but, free health care to illegal aliens is a burden, none-the-less, on our health care system.

When the "little spokes" that turn the "big wheels" in this country, that work an honest days job and pay taxes just like anybody else, regardless of what tax bracket they fall in, should be able to have some kind of health care insurance available to them.

 

[Tango]

Well, let's just hope for your sake Jill, that your family business never goes under. Just continue to live in your happy little world, wearing your blinders. Such a charmed life you must be living. Because, as you say, no one works harder than you do and is more deserving than you are.

Enjoy it while it lasts. Because, you never know when that day may come, that you may not have to worry about being in such a high tax bracket.

 

[Jill]

You ladies can just keep being as personally nasty to me as you want. You always do on these political threads and it only inspires me to keep saying what I think. My feelings rarely get hurt by people I don't even know by name! It's interesting that, while I always manage not to make it personal, others aren't able to do the same. So, speculate and accuse. Ascribe feelings to me. I'm still going to express my opinions, run my business, and enjoy my "charmed" life.

 

[LowriseMinis]

Sorry Lowrise, I missed your post on that. It may not be a significant percentage nationally, according to the link, but, free health care to illegal aliens is a burden, none-the-less, on our health care system.

That is true, but overall illegal immigrants only account for around 15% of those costs. I'm not saying isn't significant, I just wanted to be sure we weren't perpetuating the myth that it's somehow all their fault! So no worries.

For those who oppose a nationalized health care system, I would love to hear alternative ideas that are as reasonable and comprehensive, since I'm sure we can all agree allowing our current system-one in which people frequently go bankrupt or die due to lack of care-just isn't cutting it.

Use of the word 'bootstraps' will not be permitted.

 

[Danielle_E.]

Jil said

It's interesting that, while I always manage not to make it personal

Thanks I needed that