Breed, show, or both? I need help with conformation advice on these girls

[Ike]

Ok I think I nead to clarify this right now and say these are not my first horses and I have no intention of breeding thinking to make money. I have read that newbies thread so thank you fourluckyhorseshoes for showing me that. I have experience in breeding full size horses and I would be an idiot if I thought I was ever going to make money at it. No matter what you always put more into your horses than your ever going to get out of them. I have known this for years. With the purchase prices plus feeding, vet, farrier, etc your never going to come out ahead. I am very scatterbrained so I forgot to mention this right off the bat.

Also I want to clarify that I do not plan to breed just to have a "cute baby". I know better than that. I also LOVE working with foals from birth to maturity and look back and go "Wow I can't believe how amazing this horse turned out because of something I did". I love the hard work and the pleasure it give you in the end.

If I decide to breed either of these girls it will be a carefully thought out decision, I will breed for something I want for myself even if I were to choose to sell it someday, and again I do not plan to breed just to make a quick buck like some may be thinking. IF I breed any horse in the future it will be only for a couple foals, if even that, with the thought of improving the parents, and most likely not every year even.

I do not know if I will breed these girls and I will not make that decision for a looong time.

I did notice quite a few posts in the newbies thread that have the point that it is not a crime to breed as long as it is responsible and you are educated about it. I also would like to note that there were also posts in there that pointed out that everyone has a different opinion, way of doing things, and the biggest one I remember is halter is not the only show class to breed for.

I just want to clarify so people dont go "Man this chick is completely looney if she thinks she'll make mega bucks".

 

[disneyhorse]

Awwww.... No one is yelling at you and none of us certainly want to slap you

. And I don't think you are looney or are looking to make a bunch of money.

It's just that by breeding a lower quality foal, you've now used up resources that could have either rescued another horse, or bought a quality horse. I would rather see either of those situations happen versus a stubborn "well I have this-here horse with a uterus and I'm going to breed it."

You seem like such a loving person that I'd love for you to rescue another horse or two. And you are so interested in showing that id love for you to have a competitive horse. Your horses look happy, and that makes all of us happy... But not every horse is destined to be more than a pet.

It's not a bad thing to never be bred... If your horses were stallions I bet 100% of your audience here would suggest gelding them... And once that's done, no more worries. Sadly, it doesn't happen for gelding-quality mares. They always just "happen" to get bred down the road, and that's where you see the "lots and lots of worse horses out there" getting bred.

My pony, in my avatar, was purchased as a stallion prospect and he's been successfully shown all his life. Never bred, and along the road was gelded but you know what?!? He is a most beloved pet and show horse and that's just fine! I can easily go out and buy another fine pony just like him or better any day of the week.

Pets DO need to have value... Beyond just making more cute pets.

And no, halter is not the only "thing" you can breed for. If you take your mares to Nationals and win Grand Champion in a driving class, you can bet that you'll be breeding "for" something... But breeding pets... You're just breeding pets. Breeding is about striving to create a valuable horse that's got everything going for it, no matter what level of home it ends up in.

I've only bred two foals. National Champion stallion and multi National Top Ten mare. But I'd rather purchase my babies from top farms and get exactly what I'm setting out to buy. I also am not looking for halter horses, but driving horses. Breeding just isn't for everyone, myself included! I leave it to those who have $20,000 stallions and $7,000 mares... Because those people have been selling me kick-butt driving geldings for far less!

Awwww.... No one is yelling at you and none of us certainly want to slap you

. And I don't think you are looney or are looking to make a bunch of money.

It's just that by breeding a lower quality foal, you've now used up resources that could have either rescued another horse, or bought a quality horse. I would rather see either of those situations happen versus a stubborn "well I have this-here horse with a uterus and I'm going to breed it."

You seem like such a loving person that I'd love for you to rescue another horse or two. And you are so interested in showing that id love for you to have a competitive horse. Your horses look happy, and that makes all of us happy... But not every horse is destined to be more than a pet.

It's not a bad thing to never be bred... If your horses were stallions I bet 100% of your audience here would suggest gelding them... And once that's done, no more worries. Sadly, it doesn't happen for gelding-quality mares. They always just "happen" to get bred down the road, and that's where you see the "lots and lots of worse horses out there" getting bred.

My pony, in my avatar, was purchased as a stallion prospect and he's been successfully shown all his life. Never bred, and along the road was gelded but you know what?!? He is a most beloved pet and show horse and that's just fine! I can easily go out and buy another fine pony just like him or better any day of the week.

Pets DO need to have value... Beyond just making more cute pets.

And no, halter is not the only "thing" you can breed for. If you take your mares to Nationals and win Grand Champion in a driving class, you can bet that you'll be breeding "for" something... But breeding pets... You're just breeding pets. Breeding is about striving to create a valuable horse that's got everything going for it, no matter what level of home it ends up in.

I've only bred two foals. National Champion stallion and multi National Top Ten mare. But I'd rather purchase my babies from top farms and get exactly what I'm setting out to buy. I also am not looking for halter horses, but driving horses. Breeding just isn't for everyone, myself included! I leave it to those who have $20,000 stallions and $7,000 mares... Because those people have been selling me kick-butt driving geldings for far less!

 

[Ike]

Thank you disneyhorse for the advice and support, I do realize they are not outstanding quality mares, although the filly could bloom in a couple years after she matures because I know yearlings and even two to three year olds can have super ugly phases where you think there is no hope for them. I know that from experience, I was just curious if anyone with a more experienced eye could see anything, and I have no intentions of breeding them unless I feel they deserve it say like they win some really good titles. I don't know what will happen in that department with them, I have not decided whether or not I will and won't for a while yet.

I don't want to go off half cocked without a good game plan and more knowledge. Thats why I am after more knowlege and more experienced opinions to guide me because I am more experienced with Quarters, Paints, and Arabs, so I know the basics just not the smaller, hard to notice things on the Miniatures yet. I am sadly one of those people who literally needs a horse and an experienced person to point out and say this should be here, this should look like this, and so on. I was able to do that with the large horses because we have shows really close by and I used to judge for FFA in high school. So learning every little detail is hard with these little guys because the breed shows are so far away.

I was asking for opinions and knowlege and it seemed to me that a couple posters were leaning toward criticizing me for having even had the thought go through my head of possibly breeding in the future. Me and my dang sensitive feelings will get the best of me someday.

Lol.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

I just returned from an AMHA/AMHR show. It had been more than 5 years since I entered any driving classes and I was totally blown away by the differences in that short time! The trend is definitely thin thin thin! Thin neck, thin chest, thin body. The action of the driving horses was incredible!!

My QH-type boy was totally outclassed. Since you say you are far from breed shows, that may give you a little heads up what to expect for a breeding goal.

Where the trend will be in a few years, who knows. Can horses keep getting thinner and thinner??

Foals are so sweet, but they live 30+ years. I, personally, do not want that responsibility, but since I don't breed it's a good thing for me that there are folks who do!

Sounds like you are making a plan and that is more than what most people do.

 

[ohmt]

I tried to reply to your pm, but my phone is misbehaving. I am only a couple hours from central mn, so please feel free to visit here if you ever get the chance. Also, get a hold of Mary Wilson and Mike Degner of MRZ miniatures. Their breeding program is top class and they are amazing people. They shouldn't be more than an hr or two from you either. Do you have Facebook? I could get you in touch with quite a few people, if you'd like. There is an AMHA/AMHR show in Windom, MN the weekend of the 20th coming up. If there's any way you could attend, we'd love to see you there! I don't even bring horses to most of the shows I attend, I just bring my camera and try to help out. It's fun seeing the horses and of course all of the people. I try to keep attending the shows to see how the miniature horse is evolving because as a breeder I think it is important to my horses to give them the best chance in the world were something to happen to me. Best of luck, Amanda

 

[BSharpRanch]

After reading all the post, I feel it is time to put my two cents into the pot.

There are different types of miniatures out there. The trend for the halter horses right now seems to be leaning towards what we use to call "weedy" horses. Long legs, narrow body, pencil necks, long narrow heads.

Not everyone out there likes these types of horses. There are some classes where a horse like that would look way out of place like draft classes. And I know that we all have priorities when we look at our horses. What is important for me (hooves, muscles and brains) may not be what someone else would like. Some breeders breed for action, eye high movement in their horses #1, and other things are not as important. I have obtained horses in my herd that fit what I require for what I do. And when I breed I will breed for what I like, knowing that their are others who will like the same traits in their horses.

As far as the "only breed perfect looking horses" goes, sometimes you will get better animals from common or downright ugly horses. I have a friend who has a very poor quality mare with a very good pedigree. All of her foals I know are very fine animals. On the other hand I have a friend that bred their champion mare and stallion a number of times. The first few foals were awesome, but then, the last foal was a dwarf. The stallion was gelded and the mare's papers were destroyed.

I remember a quote from an Arabian sale catalog from the '70s. made by Mike Nichols. Went something like this: "Breed a champion to a champion and sometimes you get a champion, but not always. Thats what makes breeding so exciting."

 

[Ike]

Thank you! Over the 20th. Hmmm. Shoot I made plans to go to a concert with a couple friends and thats the night. Dang. I wish they still had a show at the state fair grounds like a couple years ago. I knew where that was and it was only about a two hour drive. I am terrible with directions. Ha Ha. I'll just have to save up for next summer and go to Winnona for the weekend. It just is too expensive to drive down for the day plus thats ten hours on the road.

I will for sure look into MRZ, I have heard of them and would love to visit and get to know people in the business. I will have to see what breaks I have coming up for school, I go back as of Tuesday next week and am in year round instead of like normal schools with semesters.

Yeah I do have Facebook but I very rarely use it. I can be found under Courtney Card (Yes thats really my name Lol) in Motley or Staples, MN. Like I said I rarely go on so I don't remember whats on there.

I tried to reply to your pm, but my phone is misbehaving. I am only a couple hours from central mn, so please feel free to visit here if you ever get the chance. Also, get a hold of Mary Wilson and Mike Degner of MRZ miniatures. Their breeding program is top class and they are amazing people. They shouldn't be more than an hr or two from you either. Do you have Facebook? I could get you in touch with quite a few people, if you'd like. There is an AMHA/AMHR show in Windom, MN the weekend of the 20th coming up. If there's any way you could attend, we'd love to see you there! I don't even bring horses to most of the shows I attend, I just bring my camera and try to help out. It's fun seeing the horses and of course all of the people. I try to keep attending the shows to see how the miniature horse is evolving because as a breeder I think it is important to my horses to give them the best chance in the world were something to happen to me. Best of luck, Amanda