Breeding Appaloosas

[Maxine]

Can someone please tell me if a mare who shows appaloosa characteristics ( but not appy in colouring) is bred to a non appy stallion, can she produce an appy coloured foal?

 

[valshingle]

I believe that she can. Make sure that she has app characteristics and not those of the silver modifier. I was sent an outside mare to breed that I was told had app characteristics, but she really just had the mottling and striped hooves that is sometimes seen with silver. True app characteristics include genital mottling.

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

She could, but probably won't produce a spotted pattern, but could produce the same pattern that she is (appy roan or snowflake). If she is a true appy, and not silver which can mimic the mottling/striped hooves of an appy, she has a 50% chance of passing on the appy gene to her foals.

 

[Magic]

I have a mare that has appy characteristics and just two white spots, and she has produced a LOUD colored foal from a solid, non-appy sire. This is him, as an adult:

Generally you have a better chance at an appy foal by breeding appy to appy, but I've had some of my loudest foals born out of minimally-marked appy mares.

 

[HGFarm]

YES SHE CAN!!! I have personally seen this happen more than once, and not always from the same mare or stallion.

 

[Eagle]

Great topic! Do you mind if i butt in and ask a few questions?

I have a chocolate coloured mare that has appy characteristics, she has 4 stripy hooves, genital and tummy mottling but she changes colour drastically from summer to winter.

This is winter

This is summer



Sorry about the make-do fly mask but she has an intolerance to the sun and she broke her other one.

Any ideas to what her colour is?

Thanks and sorry for hi.jacking

 

[Songcatcher]

Great topic! Do you mind if i butt in and ask a few questions?

I have a chocolate coloured mare that has appy characteristics, she has 4 stripy hooves, genital and tummy mottling but she changes colour drastically from summer to winter.

This is winter

This is summer



Sorry about the make-do fly mask but she has an intolerance to the sun and she broke her other one.

Any ideas to what her colour is?

Thanks and sorry for hi.jacking

Summer pic, she is obviously App. Appears to be Bay.

 

[shadelady]

Most definately. We own a mare who appeared ( until recently) to be a silver dapple only. With her previous owner she produced 3 solid silver foals all by the same solid silver stallion, before producing a silver blanket spot colt ( whom we bought

) again by the same stallion. She is now 9 yrs old and her skin is gradually mottling out.

 

[HGFarm]

Yes, your mare is a bay roan Appaloosa with a few scattered spots now.

 

[Eagle]

Yes, your mare is a bay roan Appaloosa with a few scattered spots now.

Yippeeee, but here mane and tail are brown, they are not sun bleached ?????? All these colours just totally lose me. I grew up with show jumpers: Bay, grey, black or sorrel. so much easier

I thought there was blue roan and sorrel roan but I have never heard of bay roan but this would explain why she changes from a lovely dark chocolate colour in the winter to this strange summer colour. She is pregnant to a black pinto (only 2 small white marks the rest is black) so what colour foal will arrive????? maybe we should bet

 

[Songcatcher]

I am by no means an expert on Appaloosas, and will be the first to admit that they really confuse me, but it seems to me that in addition to being a pattern gene, Appaloosa also modifies the colors. I saw one once that was lab tested to be Black that literally looked orange. Closer to a Silver Bay or Palomino than Black, but not matching those colors either.

 

[HGFarm]

I would have questioned the results to make sure there was not a mix up. A black is still black, bay still bay, silver still silver, etc... all you get with Appies is the extra coat pattern but it cannot 'modify' the base colors.

 

[Songcatcher]

I would have questioned the results to make sure there was not a mix up. A black is still black, bay still bay, silver still silver, etc... all you get with Appies is the extra coat pattern but it cannot 'modify' the base colors.

Maybe so, but I have never seen another Orange horse.

 

[chandab]

I am by no means an expert on Appaloosas, and will be the first to admit that they really confuse me, but it seems to me that in addition to being a pattern gene, Appaloosa also modifies the colors. I saw one once that was lab tested to be Black that literally looked orange. Closer to a Silver Bay or Palomino than Black, but not matching those colors either.

Perhaps one of those other modifiers, like Champagne, pearl and there are a couple others that do strange things to coat colors. Was the horse in question tested for silver, dun or other modifiers that might explain the odd color? [was more than black tested for?] What about sunbleaching? I know grasping.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I do not think that was the case in this case- was this the one we discussed on ECF Freeland?

If so it was weird, to say the least, but we have seen other examples of where pattern affects colour (which is just one more reason to distinguish between the two word- Appy is a pattern and colour can be Appy

)

And to answer the original question, yes, undoubtedly, in exactly the same way that a minimal pinto can throw a loud pattern from a solid. It is unusual but far from impossible.

 

[Songcatcher]

Perhaps one of those other modifiers, like Champagne, pearl and there are a couple others that do strange things to coat colors. Was the horse in question tested for silver, dun or other modifiers that might explain the odd color? [was more than black tested for?] What about sunbleaching? I know grasping.

That is certainly a possibility that there were some other modifiers. I did not go there to look at that horse. It was just there where I was looking at a B/W Pinto. It was unusual to say the least and I asked the owner what color it was. If I recall correctly, she said it was negative for Silver, but I can't say for sure. It has been two or three years ago.

Yes Jane, I believe it is the one we discussed on the other forum. I sure wish now that I had taken pictures for reference. Hind sight, 20/20.

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

I am by no means an expert on Appaloosas, and will be the first to admit that they really confuse me, but it seems to me that in addition to being a pattern gene, Appaloosa also modifies the colors. I saw one once that was lab tested to be Black that literally looked orange. Closer to a Silver Bay or Palomino than Black, but not matching those colors either.

Yes!! Appaloosa can modify base colors!! Sometimes it's just one spot, sometimes it's the whole body, sometimes nothing at all.

Read up on The Appaloosa Project for more info on this, but it does happen. It's important to remember that there are many genes and modifiers at work in the Appaloosa patterns, it's not just a "single" gene, it's a combination. Clear as mud??

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

I don't really have anything to contribute, but admire those that work on breeding pretty appys - especially conformationally nice and pretty headed - not just spotted. I've found appaloosa breeding to be the hardest. My best appys are solid and random foals from solid mares (when we had an appy stallion). I gave up!

 

[Dontworrybeappy]

I would have questioned the results to make sure there was not a mix up. A black is still black, bay still bay, silver still silver, etc... all you get with Appies is the extra coat pattern but it cannot 'modify' the base colors.

Oh, yes it can!

Here's a great article on it...

Appaloosa modifying base colors

 

[Manyspots]

I have found over the years that the appaloosas can be so exciting and then at times disappointing. Just when you think you know all the answers they throw something new your way! Who would expect a black leopard bred to a near black leopard to produce a solid!! I have seen many newbies start to do the appys only to be disappointed to not get loud color 100% of the time. Soon they lose interest. Some times I think that many of us appy folks are bull headed or stubborn to stay at it. There are beautiful appys being produced these days confirmation, pretty heads topped off with color. Always learning, never say never..... Lavonne