Breeding Little Mares

[Maxine]

Hi

My apologies if this discussion has taken place before but I have just joined and I wanted to ask what the members thought of breeding a 29" mare to a 33" Stallion. The stallions parents are 34" and 32.5". The mares are 30.25" and 36.5". I am concerned about putting the mare and foal at risk at foaling time but I also want to breed a good quality mini. The stallion I want to use is very refined and he is throwing very refined foal. They have been mostly over 34" but that is probably because the mares he has been used over are also over 34". Anyone thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[miniwhinny]

Just don't do it. Oh you may be lucky but hang around this forum long enough and see the tragic heartbreaking dystocia's that some mares have even when carefully bred with the heights reversed and you'll see that the risk just isn't worth the reward. That little mare in your care depends on you to make the right choices for her. Personally I'd make sure any stallion I choose comes from a line of ponies smaller than the mares line and that he is smaller than her and not the other way around. It's cool that you're asking though.

Oh and WELCOME

 

[HorseMom]

I have to agree with MiniWhinny. I was in a similar position. My stallion is 32" and I really liked this one mare that was for sale that stood 30". After much consideration I went for a different mare who was 34". I'm glad I did too, Slippers is amazing.

 

[Windhaven]

Now I know people breed the small ones and even smaller than you are considering.

I am assuming this is a maiden mare. If she is a maiden mare I would probably look for a stallion closer to her size with proof that he throws small and refined babies for her first one. Also do you know what the foaling history if of this mares dam? I would look closely into that if you could get that information.

I would be a little concerned breeding this small mare to the stallion you have picked out because he is throwing tall. I know it could be from the mares but with out breeding him to small mares and having small foals I would not take a chance.

I have a 30" mare and she has had no problems.

If it was me I wouldn't do it. But then again the smallest mare I would consider breeding is 30". I would rather not take a chance with the smaller ones.

But that is just what I believe in. There are many people who breed the small ones and have no problems.

I have seen problems in small ones and tall ones (34"). So it just depends. I believe the risk is greater in the 30" and under mares because of room and not having enough room to go in and reposition the foal if there is a problem.

Good luck in what every you decide.

 

[Maxine]

Sorry I may not have explained myself very well. The heights I mentioned were of the four grandparents. The stallion himself has been throwing horses around the 30-31" mark

 

[REO]

I myself would not do it.

Some people will say that a mare will not get bred with a foal she cannot carry. BUT that does not mean they can pass a large (or even medium) foals through their hips. Carrying and giving birth are not the same thing.

BUT I have known mares whose foals were so large that they tried to abort them early and could not birth them even with help and had to have a C-section or the dead foals cut up and removed.

Maybe some people have luck doing it, but not everyone has the same luck.

I'm sure I'm about to get flamed for my feelings and the sad things I've known that has happened to others, but well, my horses are my kids and I would not take a chance.

Even breeding any mare to any stallion is taking a chance, why stack the odds against a small mare?

This is how I feel. I don't knock others for the way they feel, so please don't flame me for mine.

Welcome to the forum!

Good question to start off with!

 

[Frankie]

I know many who do with no problems.

Many will also say the build of the stallion has to also be considered.

But, I lost my very first miniature when we couldn't get the foal out. It was 3 hours of nightmare. The stud was not quite 3 inches taller than her, he was smaller in build, not stocky.

I realize their could have been other reasons for what happened,,,I still blame myself.

When there are a ton of stallions at a mares height, no, wouldn't take that chance. Only you know if you would feel comfortable with it after looking at both horses.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

As I say every time this sort of thing comes up, it's all fine and dandy till something goes wrong.

I had a 28" (to the withers) mare who had two foals with no problem.

The third foal killed her, we just could not get it out and there was no room for manoeuvre, none whatsoever.

I had a 32" mare lose her foal this year but the Vet (female. I am SO lucky to have her with her small hands!!!) managed to turn the foal and get it out.

The mare is fine and back in foal.

So no, I am sorry, even though your horses come out, on average 1-2" bigger than mine, I have a "not under 30" " rule now, and I stick to it.

And if that means relocating my tiny mares (currently have a 25" yearling and a 27" 2 yr old) for a lot less than market value to non breeding homes, then so be it.

A 29" mare is definitely capable of carrying a foal she cannot give birth to.

My mare was killed by a 14" foal that just happened to be dead.

 

[Genie]

This has been discussed here before and many say that if the stallion is very refined, yet a couple of inches taller, the birthing may be without incident.

I use stallions which are smaller than my mares and one stallion is particularly refined and petite, which we use for the smallest of our breeding stock.

I also have a couple of very small mares which will never be bred and used only by the 4H and when visiting.

Even mares who have foaled easily in the past can have an unhappy incident, as we all know.

Welcome to the forum and I know the discussions will really enhance your mini horse experiences.

 

[Margaret]

I personally dont have the heart to take those kind of chances anymore.

I once bred a 31" mare once to a 33" stallion, and almost lost the mare and foal in the birth, as the baby was stuck..

It was very traumatic and they both survived, but I never want to go down that road again, for me or a mare.

I have better peace of mind breeding a smaller statured and structured stallion to taller mares.

 

[Versatility Farm & Training]

I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents here....

I've noticed almost everyone is hung up on the height of the mare, but the important thing is her build. A 17 hand thoroughbred can have a dystocia and the foal get stuck if she has poor confirmation. Look at the size of her hips and how wide they are. Then look at the confirmation of the stallion, his build and hips and then his height. 2 years ago I had a 29" maiden mare due and a 33" maiden mare due. The 29" mare had good wide hips, bred to a 31.5" stallion of medium build. This mare foaled early and I was not watching her because of this. She foaled entriely on her own with no problems. The 33" mare was bred to a 31" stallion who was a little stockier build and heavy hips. This mare foaled with me there and the baby got hip locked and I was not able to get it out before loosing the foal, but the mare was fine. I had the vet look her over to be sure, he looked over the baby and said its hips seemed larger than they should have been and recommended not using that stallion anymore, especially not to that mare. Thankfully I had already sold that stallion. I bred her back to a stallion that is 31.5" a quarter horse type build, but not as heavy boned as the last stallion, and she foaled just fine this year.

It is more important to look at the build of the horses than their height. But I also wouldn't recommend breeding a small mare to a tall stallion especially on her first foal.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I think you just answered your own question there...the mare was fine.

Everyone loses foals, it is a fact of life, but with a larger mare there is room to manoeuvre the foal.

With a tiny mare there is not.

As I said the foal that killed my mare was 14", the mare was 28" and had had two foals before.

The only thing different was that the foal was dead and could not help and there was no room to do anything.

When the same thing happened with a 31" mare there was room to turn the foal and get it out.

Some things transcend conformation.

 

[RockinSMiniature]

I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents here....
I've noticed almost everyone is hung up on the height of the mare, but the important thing is her build. A 17 hand thoroughbred can have a dystocia and the foal get stuck if she has poor confirmation. Look at the size of her hips and how wide they are. Then look at the confirmation of the stallion, his build and hips and then his height. 2 years ago I had a 29" maiden mare due and a 33" maiden mare due. The 29" mare had good wide hips, bred to a 31.5" stallion of medium build. This mare foaled early and I was not watching her because of this. She foaled entriely on her own with no problems. The 33" mare was bred to a 31" stallion who was a little stockier build and heavy hips. This mare foaled with me there and the baby got hip locked and I was not able to get it out before loosing the foal, but the mare was fine. I had the vet look her over to be sure, he looked over the baby and said its hips seemed larger than they should have been and recommended not using that stallion anymore, especially not to that mare. Thankfully I had already sold that stallion. I bred her back to a stallion that is 31.5" a quarter horse type build, but not as heavy boned as the last stallion, and she foaled just fine this year.

It is more important to look at the build of the horses than their height. But I also wouldn't recommend breeding a small mare to a tall stallion especially on her first foal.

I agree with you. I did lost a foal this year and did had a feeling because the stallion (outside sevice) seem wider and stocky built than my mare and the foal didn't make it and got hip locked and it was beautiful splash/tovero colt. It was hard and I was worried to breed her back and I did my homework and looked for Mr. Right and I bought a smaller refined stallion and that throw small foals and hopefully next year will be wonderful.

I am very happy with our new stallion and he is truly gentleman.

 

[Little Wolf Ranch]

Could I possibly see some pictures of mares with 'good wide hips' and then those with hips not so wide or "preferable" for foaling? It's hard for me to picture and I would like to see what my girls are like, thanks!

 

[Marty]

Sure Katie, these are my broodmares (except I just sold Holly the bay)

Holly and Angel have what I call a good set of wide child bearing hips on them. They slip those babies right out like butter.

And this is Chrissy, my maiden mare who is only 30" tall but I feel she too has a good set of wide child bearing hips on her too. Her back is a little bit longer than I'd like, but I don't mind it as it would give a fetus a little bit more room in there. She is also medium to heavy boned, and not what I would call refined. If I bred her, it would be to an ultra fine boned horse, no larger than around 31-32 at the very tallest.

Although I'd have to agree with a lot of what Versitality has said, it does have a lot to do with the size of the bone, overall frame and hip width. Still, if it were my mare in question, I just wouldn't do it period.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Marty those are nice mares, and you know form experience that they do have foals easily, but I have to point out that what you see on the outside has little or no bearing on what is happening inside, and if you want to know if your mare is OK to have foals the only ways to find out is to breed form her or have her internalled.

I had a little, built like an outhouse, mare fail to foal twice, both small foals and both, thankfully, the Vet could get out, both alive at start of foaling.

Since she was in there anyway ,my Vet did a checkup after the second and said the mare's pelvic channel was too narrow to pass a foal without difficulty and not to breed from her again, so I did not.

From the outside she was built just right.

 

[MindyLee]

I went ahead and bred my 29" mare to my 32" stallion BUT I took in the fact that she has a stocker body style with nice birthing hips and the stallion is super refind with nice hips but refind to his body not hers. I also considered his past foals and how they all came out. He has 10 foals and all of them are tiny and refined even to bigger or stocker mares. So that is why I went that way. Ive bred her in the past to my 30" stallion who is built just like her BUT I think the 2 births where hard on her (missed both) so I decided not to do it again as the foals where tiny but very thick and stocky. So be very carefull as this is a very risk taking decision to breed miniatures as the resaults may not always be good.