Breeding of roans

[capall beag]

Wow a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum!!!!

My stallion is defiantely the classic roan. Perfectly red head, in summer coat an almost white looking body and dark legs from the knee down, it is very dramstic contrast and really very handsome!

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Unfortunately Dr Bowling died before her findings were complete and someone else took it upon themselves to interpret. Also unfortunately a lot of the animals involved in her research were not Roans, they were minimal Appies and Sabinos. As far as I am aware Appy "roaning" has nothing to do with Roan so really it would be quite useful if they would think up a new term for a pattern that looks nothing like Roan, and stopped confusing the issue

Roan does not change with age.

Roan has a head and points the colour of the base colour of the horse (unless affected by Silver) .

Roans are born Roan or change in their foal coat.

Roans are heterozygous- H/Z Roan is lethal and causes foetal absorption before thirty days.

Roan is a simple dominant- to get Roan you must have a Roan.

Roan can "hide" in Double Cream Dilutes , and, quite effectively , in Palomino.

These are the facts as they stand at the moment.

 

[minicount]

Roans are heterozygous- H/Z Roan is lethal and causes foetal absorption before thirty days.

These are the facts as they stand at the moment.

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You are confusing the word fact with current accepted theory.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

No, I'm not, they are the facts from experience, as they stand at the moment They may be disproven tomorrow, although I doubt it, but, at the moment thay are the acceptedfacts- from experience.

 

[SunQuest]

Hummm. This is really an interesting thread!

How I view things is that Dr. Bowlin passed away a "long time ago" as far as genetic research and color knowledge that the genetics apply to. The knowledge concerning color gentics has grown so much that even Spoonenburg has had to update parts of his book on the subject. So while she may have started to try to prove the point about roan to roan crosses, to base the theory that it is not true on just one person and their work that happened so long ago may not be good either. That was why I was asking on what info was the article written. If it is old studies, well then much has changed as we know that some pinto genes and some appy genes do cause a roaning effect, but that is not true roaning.

I guess the way I look at it is that I know for sure that there is no issue if I breed one true roan to a non-roan. This is a proven fact. And since there is no known RNRN horse, then that would mean that something happens to that combination of genes if a true roan is bred to a true roan. So that right there tells me that either it is not a possible combination, or that the embrio is not viable.

So if there is a slightest bit of question as to the combination resulting in a lower viable pregnancy rate, why would I even risk it?

ANyway, very interesting topic indead!

 

[minicount]

I said rumor because even though I have heard it from many sources I have never actually seen the records or any documentation.

Even at only ten horses a year for 30 years (not adding in the years before we kept better records, my family has been breeding QH's since the 1930's) that is 300 roan to roan pairings. So for those 300 pairings and 85% conception and carry that is 255 roan mares that carry and foal off of the FIRST CYCLE COVERED. Funny thing is that my non-roan mares have the same percentage of catching that first heat also.

I am the last person to tell anybody to "believe me" I only wish to give people my opinion and facts as I have them. This issue is not for me to convince people that my way is right but rather to make them go out and decide for themselves what they consider to be correct.

Well Rabbit the acceptted fact was that the earth was flat for a while too.

I am completely open to the fact that they may isolate a gene or do a complete study that irrefutable says that roan is 25% lethal but I'm not about to disregard my own knowledge over a study done eons ago and to my knowledge has not been replicated since.

 

[KKattmandu]

This thread is extremely informational! I believe that I started another thread that prompted this roan to roan question.

So, after reading and attempting to comprehend what was said, what was fact, and what was fiction...I have a question.

My mare is a registered black roan pinto, but she displays appy characteristics, and her sire and dam were not roans. (But maybe they had the gene somewhere?)

Anyway, couldn't she be bred to a roan who displays the roan trait, and have a chance of not absorbing the fetus because she doesn't display the traits?

Hopefully I made that clearer than mud....

If I make sense, I would appreciate any insight to my problem, and if not, ignore me!

 

[SunQuest]

My mare is a registered black roan pinto, but she displays appy characteristics, and her sire and dam were not roans.

If neither her sire and dam were true roans, then your mare is definately not a true roan. One parent must be a true roan to get a true roan horse. And the fact that your mare shows appy characteristics leads me to think that it is the appy gene causing the appearance of roan. So I would bet that you could breed this mare to a true roan and not ever have an issue since neither parents were roans. Remember, roan is a dominant trait. It doesn't hide.

 

[capall beag]

Well this is interesting!!!!!!

I sold my stallion tonight

My true silver bay roan and I told the lady all I ahd learned from the forum!!!!

I think I sounded pretty smart!!!! However, she looked a bit confused!!!!!

Anyway, he is going to a great home and I have told her all I now know about the roan gene and what it can and cannot do, I think

THANK YOU SO MUCH TO ALL WHO REPLIED, even with the disagreements it made for a lvely and informative topic!!!!!