Bullying problem-long need advice

[Sue_C.]

How many of us got bras snapped, pigtails dipped in inkwells (for some of you older gals

) and got called nasty names because we were too skinny, too fat, too flat or too round?

There is a whole world of difference in being "teased", and being assaulted and spat upon. Yes, many of us had our bra strap snapped, pig-tails pulled and were teased by the boys as young girls...but in most cases, that is the silly way young boys try to get girl's attention...that is "normal" behavior. This...THIS...it-is-NOT.

If I saw a young boy being cruel to animals...I would report him. We now know that animal cruelty as a child, is often a sign of psychopathic behavior, to me...this boy, as young as he is, is showing some very frightening behavior as well. If not reported, and the parents don't care enough to stop it, and get him help, then who will ever know, until they read in the papers in a few years after it has escalated.

 

[wade3504]

OK Ashley, that was uncalled for. Her father does care but this is not an easy situation. What if the cops come talk to him and he gets even angrier? How would you explain to my husband why our daughter was stabbed, beaten whatever and the boy said he did it because we called the cops? This is a very difficult situation and you decide that my husband doesn't care? Unbelievable! He didn't say he wasn't going to at all. He said he was going to wait to see what happened after my mother in law talked to him. If he persists then they will be called.

Hobbyhorse, I wish Becca would stand up to him face to face but she will not do that. She will stand in the same room with him if she has to, like at the vice principals office but she won't even say what he did with him standing there. She will only say it with him not being present. I am not going to put her in the awkward situation of all sitting down, no matter how friendly, for a talk, when she is not comfortable with that.

 

[susanne]

No matter what else you do, Becca needs help boosting her self confidence. She needs to learn to stand up for herself now and as an adult.

I would suggest a) self defense classes, b) counseling, c) an activity outside of school, where she can establish her sense of pride and self-respect away from those who are currently doing everything to drag her down. Dance, swimming, art, music, science camp -- the opportunities are endless.

A great deal of attention is being paid these days to bullying at school, but it does not stop there...it continues into adulthood for those who don't learn that they have the power to stand up for themselves. Spouses, family, "friends," coworkers, bosses, neighbors, police officers -- many people will take advantage of those who are unable to stand up for themselves.

Trust me, Amanda -- I have no doubt your husband loves his daughter, but Ashley is correct that he MUST let her know that this WILL NOT CONTINUE, because even worse than the bullying is having the adults in her life appear not to support her. Notice that I say "appear." In a case like this, appearances are as important as (or more important than) reality.

I've joked about my phobia of thistles, but when I was four and my brothers and sisters tortured me with them, my parents LAUGHED. It wasn't the thistle torture that hurt -- it was the the sense of betrayal when my parents didn't stand up for me.

 

[wade3504]

We are going to put her and her brother in a karate class. We were doing that before, not for the self defense, even though that helps, but for the confidence building and foccusing. Becca doesn't have a focus problem but our son does and it affects his school work. She is in a drama club at school where she is learning to stand up in front of people and speak so she is making progress. We had her in a Girl's United group but some teacher at her school decided to reccommend her for reading enrichment. For those who need it it's a nice word for reading tutoring. She's got some of the best grades in all of her 5th grade (part of an award she's getting for being a role model at school and her good grades, only 4 fifth graders are getting it), so what I think they are doing is trying to up the scores even higher of the kids who can help them pass the FCAT as they are a "C" school. So, even though we didn't want her in it she is still not allowed in her club as it falls on the same day. I was peeved. They wouldn't change their mind about it or tell me who the teacher was who did it. She's got the highest grades you can get without going beyond what someone in her grade level should know.

I used to be like her but even worse. I was just extremely shy plus I just let people walk alll over me. It wasn't really bullying just in general. I finally decided one day that I didn't like that me and I am totally different now. I am not afraid to stand up for myself or say what I need to say. I am not the people pleaser I once was always worried about making everyone happy as that is just not possible. So I am working with Becca and I am going to have her see a counselor as well and not the ones at school as they are useless-"Sure you can come back to us if they do anything at home" and when she does, "we can't do anything as it didn't happen as part of a school function." So she got up the nerve to tell them and then they do nothing. The best part is that the couunselor and vice principal have been talking with me this whole time. Now that it's getting hotter and I am not dropping it they've decided since I am not on the list of people that they can talk to at the school regarding Becca and John (only my husband and his mother are as he hadn't changed it yet), that they can't talk to me. So we are fixing that on Monday and I will have permission to do anything involving them. So they got a couple of days off but it's not over.

I did find out that we can make a complaint about this kid with the apartment complex rental company. I guess there is a policy where you can say it is unsafe living conditions for whomever in your family. If this family has more than one complaint they will be the ones who will be asked to leave and we won't have to. If it comes down to it I will make a request to get out of our lease so that we may leave. We planned on it after our lease was up anyway to go live closer to my work and a much better school system.

 

[Sonya]

While she may need more self confidence to stand up for herself in certain circumstances, things are not like they used to be. Yes, we may have gotten our bras snapped, etc, but kids are not the same now. Kids are more violent, more troubled IMO, many do not know how to handle their emotions so they do so with violence/dominence. 25-30 years ago there were not guns in schools for the most part, etc...yes there was bullying/fighting, but it never usually escaliated to the point it does today, so many suicides, etc... I won't get into my opinion on why things are this way, because it doesn't matter. I know this is a hard situation and I do think you and your husband are doing the best you can. Good luck.

 

[~Lisa~]

Wow pretty harsh to assume or even say her father does not care about her.

Sometimes people do not look at the whole picture and while yes I am sure he did not tell her it is not a big deal going to the police is not a end all to any situation.

Sometimes it does nothing more then escalate a situation and often times it takes more then a person saying such and such happened until they can do something.

It is a personal choice and one with consequences either way. I surely would never say a parent does not love their child simply for not going to the police about something like this just yet.

Off topic but it is very simular to those that tell a battered women well just get a restraining order- sounds great but last I heard a peice of paper did not protect against fists, bullets, knives rape ect... Often times things like this are just not simple to solve and do have to be thought out carefully. Of course being a parent we want to protect our kids but sometimes protecting them is doing just what the OP is doing going thru all their options and being very aware of the situation and making educated decisions on a time line they feel works best.

 

[Sue_C.]

it is very similar to those that tell a battered women well just get a restraining order- sounds great but last I heard a piece of paper did not protect against fists, bullets, knives rape etc... Often times things like this are just not simple to solve and do have to be thought out carefully.

I was thinking to the effect that it would be on paper...something to follow through on if it DOES escalate. To not report it, means if these kids do something again, to some other kids even...this won't be seen on their records, and the next time too, nothing will be written/reported. How many times will that happen, before they have done something "worth" reporting?

Just thinking "out loud".

 

[~Lisa~]

Sue I agree and my advice earlier in the thread was to perhaps file a report on the sexual aspect going on here.

But when someone said they do not care about this girl for not filing a report I just thought I would point out that it is not always the right choice and it can escalate things is all..

 

[Marty]

OK I want to tell you all my reasoning behind some of what I have said: When we moved here my boys were little 1st and 2nd graders and considered outcasts. Heck, they couldn't even understand not only the kids with the southern slang and thick accent, and their "slang sayings" but they couldn't even get through the accent of some of the teachers it was that bad and frankly and honestly neither could I.

Michael was very little for his age. He got beat up all the time. He'd get off the school bus daily with his clothing torn and bruises. Do you think I just sat here? I was in the Principal's office, talking to the parents, and appeared in front of the school board and was dismissed as "boys will be boys". I only made it worse for him and I didn't know what to do. It escalated over the years then finally one day in 5th grade I got a call Michael was hurt bad. Seems a bunch of big kids thought it was funny to stuff him inside a locker, padlock it and leave him there and he couldn't breathe and paramedics were called. Again reports were made that went no where but the bottom line is we ended up having to purchase land in an adjoining county so we could legally move my kids to a different school system off this mountain and out of this county completely.

That summer a bunch of the mountain kids from his former school started showing up around here when they noticed we got a swimming pool and they decided to "take it over" from my kids and I wasn't sure how we'd handle it worrying about reprisal what they would do if I threw them out of here. Well, Michael was very wise for his young age and wise way before his time. He didn't run away into the house for nothing. He ran into the house for food to bring out to feed them all. He took groceries out on trays, lunch meat a loaf of bread, drinks, cookies, you name it and welcomed them. He told them he wanted them to swim in his pool and have fun with him but warned them never to hurt his little brother. Protecting Dan was his main concern. He sat with them all at our picnic table over food and I don't know what was said to this day but there was a lot of laughter. All I did was lay the basic ground rules, no pushing, drowning anyone, be sure your parent's know you are here etc. and that was the end of it. I had a ton of kids here every day ever since. These friendships lasted for years and still now and my boys became popular with everyone. In hindsight, too bad these kids couldn't have been able to talk it out back in the early days of school. It kinda reminds me of Thanksgiving when the Pilgrims sat down and shared with the Indians.

There's a lesson in here somewhere.

I cannot tell you how much loved by all these kids Michael was till the day he died. What I am trying to tell you all is you need to give the opportunity for kids to become friends and as John Lennon would say "Give Peace a Chance"

I just wanted to share this.

 

[Sonya]

Marty while I agree somewhat with the approach you all took in your situation. I think this situation is extremely different in the fact that it is boy harrassing girl. I still find it disturbing that he grabbed her breast (to me that suggests a sexual assault, and yes boys around the same age as these boys have raped before, google it). I just hope the little ^&*# has wised up and will leave her alone now.

 

[Ashley]

Well its been proven that talking to the kids did nothing, so waiting to do soemthing more is pretty much showing how much he cares. IF the kid is already sexually assulting her(which he is) hes not going to just stop there on his own.

I stand by my original statements. I am in a relationship with somebody who had a rough childhood, whos parents did nothing when she went to them. I know what kind of damage that gets done to a person, even after almost 35 years she isnt the same and there will always be issues.

The little girl is loseing her childhood. You posted before about her messy habits and other things you didnt like. Ever think this is her way of acting out about stuff she dont know how to deal with especially when she isnt getting the help she needs to fix the problem?

 

[susanne]

I don't question his love for his daughter, but in a case like this, perceptions can be more potent than reality. If she perceives him as not caring, not believing her, or not protecting her, she will still be hurt. A parent can love their child to pieces yet not realize how much a given situation hurts them.

You mentioned before that he's not really the touchy-feely sort, but could he take her out for a drive and talk and tell her that he might not express himself well, but he will always listen to her and always be there for her. Even if this is awkward and uncomfortable, it would mean the world to her.

Those school administrators are blithering idiots, and if they are indeed holding her back to help their ratings, you need to get both kids to a different school in a different district. This is unconscionable. A principal who would allow this would be all too likely to brush a sexual assault aside to protect his/her school's reputation. I understand not wanting her to miss the trip, but I'd at least start the process of transferring them to a new school.

I agree 100% with those who have said grabbing a breast IS SEXUAL ASSAULT, not boyish teasing.

In addition to helping Becca, has the school considered that a boy that young grabbing a girl's breast NEEDS SERIOUS HELP? Hello -- this boy is a sexual predator in training. If nobody acts, they are enabling and, in fact, encouraging him. For this reason if none other, I would report this to the police. Having his victim's grandmother give him a stern lecture isn't going to help one bit.

As for the boy's family getting evicted if enough people complain, this could be a VERY good thing, as he *might* see that his actions have hurt his family, and they *might* take this issue seriously.

I'd be very curious to know if he has assaulted or bullied anyone else, or if he has been in any other trouble?

Amanda, I feel so strongly for Becca, and I'm so glad to hear that she and her brother are taking martial arts classes, as well as the other activities. You are a great mother and I empathize with your position as new member of the family. Keep fighting!