Buyer beware

[RJRMINIS]

I personally know that there is someone out there advertising a stallion I used to own that I sold with total honesty about his legs not being straight, I bought him out of state(learning my lesson) and when transport brought him I was upset because his legs from the knee down turned out. The person I bought him from made it right with me but I was still out the shipping fees......I later sold him with total honesty to the lady that bought him from me, she since sold him at a sale, and a breeder bought him and now has him advertised on lil beginnings, and when someone I know inquired on him, was not told of his legs, but was told he is correct.

So just a reminder out there BUYER BEWARE>.....make sure you ask for pics from all sides.....I learned my lesson, and was honest when I sold him, but I do know he is still in my name, and being advertised as correct, and I do not feel that is right. Especially since no one has ever transferred him and he is still in my name. I mean he is a beautiful stallion, and so nice, but I am just upset with the lack of honesty......It is upsetting!

 

[dgrminis]

Great reminder...

Thanks!

 

[srpwildrose]

I totally understand "BUYER BEWARE".

I bought a homozygous 2 yr old stallion from CA last Sept...........I had him just under 2 weeks and his stifle started to lock up. Of course I bought him to be a herd stallion. However he was definatly not stallion quality. I had veterinary reports and videos of him. Seller still denied his stifle lock. I shipped him back to CA as soon as I could.

I was out over 1000.00. That is ALOT of money to spend and not have a horse to show for it.

I noticed she had him for sale on LB a few months back. OH!

BUYER BEWARE!!!

I know its hard when we are buying from out of state........get as much info as you can.

Most people sell their horses "AS IS".

 

[Keri]

Just a thought, but since he came to you with crooked legs, why did you not geld him so he wouldn't be advertised as a correct stallion????

Its buyer beware, but also seller aware that needs to happen too. You were honest, but there are unhonest people out there that don't care if the horse is crooked and are probably breeding him to mares and more crooked legged horses will be produced.

Yes. I've had a buyer beware experience too. You live, you learn and you try not to repeat.

 

[RockRiverTiff]

Sadly in today's world it's pretty much always buyer beware, but it is nevertheless an important thing to remember. I hope anyone inquiring about your former stallion has the good sense to get lots of photos!

 

[Mona]

Just a thought, but since he came to you with crooked legs, why did you not geld him so he wouldn't be advertised as a correct stallion????

Its buyer beware, but also seller aware that needs to happen too. You were honest, but there are unhonest people out there that don't care if the horse is crooked and are probably breeding him to mares and more crooked legged horses will be produced.

Yes. I've had a buyer beware experience too. You live, you learn and you try not to repeat.

I cannot answer for Michelle, but I have personally been in similar circumstances in the past, and I can say that after you are hit hard (sometimes time and time again!) in taking a loss as it is, you try to take your losses at a minimum and move on. The way I look at it, why should *I* be having to throw out more good money after bad, to geld someone elses crap horse! Yes, I have done it, and too many times. Finally I said to heck with it, let someone else pay to have him gelded, I am taking my losses and moving on. I will geld my own horses or sell on a gelding contract when I feel it warrants doing.

 

[mmmorgans]

I know only too well that a buyer should realize that not all sellers are honest - believe me I have been stung more than once!!!!!

However - in a situtation like yours - I think I would have gelded the stallion - that way his genetic problems end with you. I realize that everything costs money - but there are way too many poor quality "stallions" out there without genetic problems to add to it.

I feel badly that you trusted someone and they took advantage of you. It would be nice to have a public list of the "not-so-honest" sellers out there!!!!!

 

[HGFarm]

I agree with all.... I am currently waiting for a seller to make it right, after she told me twice she would, on a mare that has some health issues and is not a breedable mare. I bought the mare through an ad on the Board also, advertised by a 3rd party for the owner.

After trying to blame it on something else as to why the mare was not pregnant, though I provided proof from my vet as to WHY she was not, and telling me both in April and again in June that she would take the mare back, she has still not refunded my money. She and her friend then told some, well, shall we say 'fabrications' to others, however I have documentation, so was able to prove that their stories were truly just that, and am still waiting for this to be made right. She changed her plan at the last minute and has decided that I should pay the entire shipping home to her and then I guess I am supposed to hope I might get a refund. After giving me the run around for 3 months now, and the flat out lies told, I have no reason to trust her or her friend that advertised the horse on the sale board and then said she didnt, among other stories.

It has been such a headache and heartache, and appears my next step is going to have to be in another direction. All I asked was that she repurchase the mare back. I didnt ask for the shipping I paid down to here from NM (they brought the horse down to there from WY). I didnt ask for the vet bills back or the feed the mare has consumed since MARCH either.

Dishonest people really ruin it for others, and I know who I will and will not recommend to buy from. They are only hurting themselves in the long run.

 

[Seashells]

I agree with all.... I am currently waiting for a seller to make it right, after she told me twice she would, on a mare that has some health issues and is not a breedable mare. I bought the mare through an ad on the Board also, advertised by a 3rd party for the owner.

After trying to blame it on something else as to why the mare was not pregnant, though I provided proof from my vet as to WHY she was not, and telling me both in April and again in June that she would take the mare back, she has still not refunded my money. She and her friend then told some, well, shall we say 'fabrications' to others, however I have documentation, so was able to prove that their stories were truly just that, and am still waiting for this to be made right. She changed her plan at the last minute and has decided that I should pay the entire shipping home to her and then I guess I am supposed to hope I might get a refund. After giving me the run around for 3 months now, and the flat out lies told, I have no reason to trust her or her friend that advertised the horse on the sale board and then said she didnt, among other stories.

It has been such a headache and heartache, and appears my next step is going to have to be in another direction. All I asked was that she repurchase the mare back. I didnt ask for the shipping I paid down to here from NM (they brought the horse down to there from WY). I didnt ask for the vet bills back or the feed the mare has consumed since MARCH either.

Dishonest people really ruin it for others, and I know who I will and will not recommend to buy from. They are only hurting themselves in the long run.

That's terrible! You are right in saying it will only hurt them in the long run! Intergrity is so important.

Money comes and goes, but the character person we are....stays with us till we die! Honesty and integrity is

worth more to me than $$$

I would report any bad deals that are not made good to Mary Lou....and have them banned from the use of this sale board. Over the years, I've seen people banned from time to time. Surely we don't need flat out dishonest people advertising on this wonderful sale board. Three things people: Do what's right. Do the best you can. Treat people the way you want to be treated.

 

[Jill]

Of course it is buyer beware but also, in all the hands he's passed through, it's too bad no one gelded him. I've actually never gelded a horse because it wasn't correct (my geldings are correct) but I wouldn't pass around a horse as a stallion with conformation issues.

 

[RJRMINIS]

Well I never gelded him number one because I already lost enough money in his purchase price, not to mention transport and I really did not want to put anymore into my loss. I was told by his breeder he did not throw this in his foals, but I did not want a stallion that had any flaws......He was perfect in every other way, but that...........But like I said in my eyes that is a major flaw....... Now I was honest in selling him to the lady that bought him from me at a reduced price, than I paid for him. I just wish the people who owned him now would be honest........The sad thing is.........they are trying to make money on him as well, they paid little of nothing for him at the sale, and are asking more than 4X what they paid for him........and not mentioning his flaws.........I just want to warn people, I would hate for anyone to have him climb off a transport truck, and have their heart sink, like mine did the day he arrived at my house. This has been some time ago that this happened, and just to see him up for sale now, and know people are being told he is correct.....is just not right.

Edited to add.........I did email the person who listed him......guess they think that a small flaw like this is no big deal...........yes I am not kidding.....I told them how upset I was, and they say well for as nice of color he is he is worth the price and how most people never notice, toeing out!!!!!!!!

I give up.......Buyers beware...you should read my last 2 emails from the seller!

 

[Jill]

Honestly, you had a chance to make things "right" by gelding him and it's not your place to "be upset" with how he's marketed now in my opinion.

I wouldn't have sold him with something I saw as a huge flaw as a stallion when I owned him. You did, and now he's for sale again -- as a stallion. Go figure.

If I were the current seller, I'd be pretty hot at this thread. I'm sure you've gotten plenty of PM's asking "who is it?".

PS, I have NO idea who is the seller, and don't care to know either.

 

[RJRMINIS]

Well Jill, if the seller wants to be hot, let them, they should not be telling people he is correct when he is not........plain and simple.......If she had been honest, I would have never started this thread.... No wonder people refrain from posting, I simply wanted to tell the buyers out there to beware and ask for tons of pictures, so what happened to me in the past would not happen to them.........you would be shocked to read the emails, where she thinks it is ok to sell him, to people who don't want show quality, that they don't care and just want the color........

 

[MiLo Minis]

I would report any bad deals that are not made good to Mary Lou....and have them banned from the use of this sale board. Over the years, I've seen people banned from time to time. Surely we don't need flat out dishonest people advertising on this wonderful sale board.

As we all know there are always 2 sides to every story. I think that asking Mary Lou to be become involved by having to decide who is coming closer to the whole truth and banning the other is asking Mary Lou to do a whole lot of unnecessary extra work. As was stated at the beginning of this post, it is buyer beware when purchasing horses. In this case the seller is aware of the horse's flaws as RJRMinis tells us she told them but there are plenty of people out there selling horses that have no idea that there is anything wrong with them. It is up to you as the buyer to educate yourself against purchasing a horse with unacceptable flaws (there is no such thing as the perfect anything

) I have an article on my website I wrote concerning purchasing a horse and another on conformation. I suggest anyone, who has little experience with internet shopping, should read them. There are also lots of other resources out there - gather as much information and help as possible before shopping.

Dishonest sellers will eventually not be able to easily sell a horse once their reputation precedes them. In this day of the internet and global communication, that happens far more quickly than it ever has.

 

[Jill]

Jill...I have to be honest ...I had to read your post twice...I was a little shocked at your reponse and I hope you can explain it to me because I really don't understand -

I don't understand what there is to not understand? The original poster owned this stallion, with what she describes as a major flaw making him unworthy of breeding -- yet he was sold as a stallion to someone else.

Now apparently he's changed hands a couple-few times, as often is the case, and he's still a stallion being sold as a stallion. I haven't seen him, and taking the original poster at her word that he's got bad legs, my point is she owned him and could have gelded him but instead sold him "as a stallion".

You know the saying, "The Buck Stops Here?" It could have stopped there... Don't get upset when "you" had the chance to make it right so no one would be buying this horse as a breeding animal. It wasn't worth the expense to "you" to do it so now he's still a stallion and for sale, yet again, as such. You had every right not to geld him and to sell him as a stallion, but now to come in and be upset that he's being sold as a stallion doesn't sit right with me. You had the opportunity to "fix" the problem.

Take that as "mean" if you want but it's an honest opinion and I'm sure I'm not the only one who shares it. If someone opens this kind of thing up for opinions, and it really started out as a post to cast stones, don't be shocked when an opinion gets expressed about the situation even if it's not a pat on the back. I respect honesty in others' posts.

ALSO, if we want to drag ML into banning someone on the sales board, how would her work ever be done? I've seen so many horses listed that they'd do well at shows (when maybe they would in costume class only), horses listed as "perfect" when none are and certainly not the thick, coarse, ewe necked, cowhocked one pictured, etc. What someone may see as straight, I may not. What someone may see as good, I may not. It's all very subjective and I don't feel it's fair to expect Mary Lou to evaluate whether or not a sales horse is properly advertised... it could get to the point that the only acceptable way to market would be color and gender -- and not going to touch height with a 38" pole.

 

[RJRMINIS]

Jill, My point of being upset is the fact when this seller was emailed about him and asked about his legs and bite, was told he was correct..........

I don't care if he is sold as a stallion, as a gelding, whatever, I just think being told he is correct is the problem..........If someone is told his legs turn out from the knee down, or he toes out, then the seller is honest and the buyer assumes the responsibility buying him as a stallion, or gelding, but also knowing what they are getting.

There is no need to bring Mary Lou in this to ban anyone....My point of the whole post is BUYER BEWARE>...ask tons of questions if you can't see them in person and get tons of pics........

Thanks........that was my whole point of this....

 

[Jill]

Maybe this seller feels he's "correct enough"? I'm sure I wouldn't if he toes out from the knee down but seeing what some people hold out as their herd sires -- it is all par for the course. We all have different standards and nothing illustrates that more than browsing the sales board.

As a seller, I represent my horses to the 10th degree of my ability to do so, and if you've ever talked to me about buying one of my horses, you might think I'm practicing sales prevention as I will point out what I see as flaws point blank. I also am prepared, all ducks in a row, with pictures from every angle, on a sidewalk to show hoof angles, bite alignment, etc. But, that's how I choose to do business.

If I were the person with this horse advertised for sale, and figuring there's got to be a bunch of "who's the seller" private messaging going on, I'd not appreciate it. This person probably feels they are doing business properly. ANYONE thinking to buy a horse for breeding or showing purposes who would not have the full array of pictures in front of them before deciding probably isn't ready to breed or show. So, I do agree with buyer beware but I also feel the post has the potential to cast a dark light on someone's sale when to certain people, this horse may be just the ticket.

 

[Minimor]

As an extra note of caution--don't just get front & rear photos of the horse standing....ask for photos or a video of a horse walking toward and away from the camera. When the horse is posed for a photo, legs can be manipulated--hocks pulled out so that a toed out hoof turns straight...but if you see the horse walking away, what you see is what you get.

 

[Becky]

I think it is always 'buyer beware' and buyers should do their homework, but on the other hand, I think it's 'sellers beware' too.

I've taken back two horses in the last two years that were sold as foals and as a 2 and 3 yr old they came back to me with 'perceived' problems the buyers thought they had. Neither horse has the issues the buyers said they had.

One horse the buyer said one front leg turned out so bad that 'he'd have to be gelded and could never be shown'. In that case, the only thing wrong with that horse was incorrect hoof trimming which I've seen to be so common in miniature horses! That horse has gone on to be a Champion Sr Stallion and multiple Top 10.

Certainly there are issues that sellers don't always disclose and buyers should make themselves aware. But sellers are not always at fault either.

 

[bingo]

you would be shocked to read the emails, where she thinks it is ok to sell him, to people who don't want show quality, that they don't care and just want the color........

[/font]

Well I do believe that the seller is 100 percent correct in the above statement. It might not be ok for you or I but plenty of people out there would love a stallion of color.

I am with Jill I would have gelded the horse. Odds are the stallion would be back up for sale as a stallion again just like you sold him.

What is a major conformation flaw to one is nothing to another that is just a fact of life. The evidence is right here on this forum and sale board with all the horses being called show quality.