Cleaning Sheaths.

[Nathan Luszcz]

and again I disagree

hence my original comment saying that I felt that the statement was not arrogent, and that plenty of people find an annual (or more often, heck, we clean every single stallion [and mare, with soap] before breeding or collecting, and there are weeks they're collected many times) cleaning a normal, expected, and required part of their gelding/stallion's healthcare. You are free to disagree, as am I. I too hope that the people who never clean have horses with less-than-average smegma and bean accumulation. They say for humans that a clean body reflects a clean mind. I figure for my horse to feel and look his best, he should be clean too.

 

[Beccy]

Well in the first place Nathan, we are talking about completely different setups. We (and probably most people reading this topic) are not collecting stallions for the purpose of A.I., nor are we breeding to outside mares. As I have already stated, if I were, I would have a different perspective on this subject. However for a small closed breeding operation, our concerns about infection are not the same as yours.

For tyhe stallion's comfort, a flushing with the hose when they have been sweating from exercise, or while they are being bathed, is not the same as invading and poking around unnecessarily.

The reason I find the original comment arrogant, is that it is basically saying that if people don't clean their boys (and I take this to mean regularly and routinely, not when there is a problem, which I have already agreed would be a reason to do it) that we had best hope the horses are "lucky" and not get very dirty. That says to me that they think any horse whose owner does not regularly and routinely shove their hand up there and root around to clean it, is unlucky. To say that my healthy gelding or stallion is unlucky because I don't choose to do something the way they do, is arrogant.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

You absolutely do not have to always route around inside their sheath. I wouldn't even present that as an option with a mini horse. It is plenty easy to wash without actually "invading" their sheath. I find the hose a far less prefered way! lol Imaging getting a cold water enema... that's basically what you are doing! Even worse, because the penis is a very sensitive organ.

I'm not talking about breeding horses most of the time. Breeding stallions (regardless of closed herd or not, infection is infection and its not caused by "bad" stuff, just the normal junk present in their body and foreign to the mare's uterous) are different and should be kept even cleaner than a gelding.

I too hope that horses that aren't cleaned don't make much smegma, because it needs to be removed. Natural horses take care of it themselves. When we take that option away (through castration or whathaveyou) we need to take over and maintain their health for them. Its just another routine part of male horse ownership.

And also don't forget that smegma and peeling skin (the outward signs of a dirty sheath) are only half the problem: the biggest problem is the one people don't see, that pesky bean. Smegma makes things uncomfortable and filthy and terrible smelling if ignored, possibly leading to skin irritation and drying if left alone for WAY too long; the bean is what causes the pain and difficulty urinating, and that is hard to notice unless you look hard, or spend far too much time between the legs of male horses like I do, lol.

My point is besides breeding stallions, to all those other male horses that don't have the luxery of cleaning themselves inside a mare. (ick, now that's a disgusting image! lol)

I guess I live in an ideal world

I get to see the cultures come up on horses that haven't been cleaned, which sometimes have huge infections that you wouldn't even notice by looking. And I've seen the opposite too, from horses that were cleaned too much with harsh chemicals that had the infection (FROM the cleaning) go up into their tract and give them a perminent reproductive tract infection. Not pretty; something that can be easily avoided through careful and responsible management.

 

[Beccy]

You absolutely do not have to always route around inside their sheath. I wouldn't even present that as an option with a mini horse. It is plenty easy to wash without actually "invading" their sheath. I find the hose a far less prefered way! lol Imaging getting a cold water enema... that's basically what you are doing! Even worse, because the penis is a very sensitive organ.

I'm not talking about breeding horses most of the time. Breeding stallions (regardless of closed herd or not, infection is infection and its not caused by "bad" stuff, just the normal junk present in their body and foreign to the mare's uterous) are different and should be kept even cleaner than a gelding.

I too hope that horses that aren't cleaned don't make much smegma, because it needs to be removed. Natural horses take care of it themselves. When we take that option away (through castration or whathaveyou) we need to take over and maintain their health for them. Its just another routine part of male horse ownership.

And also don't forget that smegma and peeling skin (the outward signs of a dirty sheath) are only half the problem: the biggest problem is the one people don't see, that pesky bean. Smegma makes things uncomfortable and filthy and terrible smelling if ignored, possibly leading to skin irritation and drying if left alone for WAY too long; the bean is what causes the pain and difficulty urinating, and that is hard to notice unless you look hard, or spend far too much time between the legs of male horses like I do, lol.

My point is besides breeding stallions, to all those other male horses that don't have the luxery of cleaning themselves inside a mare. (ick, now that's a disgusting image! lol)

I guess I live in an ideal world

I get to see the cultures come up on horses that haven't been cleaned, which sometimes have huge infections that you wouldn't even notice by looking. And I've seen the opposite too, from horses that were cleaned too much with harsh chemicals that had the infection (FROM the cleaning) go up into their tract and give them a perminent reproductive tract infection. Not pretty; something that can be easily avoided through careful and responsible management.

: Give me credit for some common sense please! I don't use cold water to flush a sheath, yes that would be cruel! :new_shocked: Tepid water on a warm day they don't seem to mind at all.

Perhaps I have misunderstood this entire topic then Nathan, because what I have been reading is not about flushing out a sheath with water, which I would consider routine, but that some people feel that digging around to "find the beans" is absolutely necessary. When the topic of sheath cleaning comes up, this is what most people are referring to, and I will say it again, unless there is a problem, I don't feel it is necessary.

When I say infection, I am referring to diseases that can be transmitted from one horse to another, which is far less likely in a small closed operation, than on a stud farm.

Our stallions and geldings are all healthy, happy and functioning normally. If one weren't I would be the first to say we have a problem that needs action, but as I have said, in all the years I have been around horses, which in the case of large horses is a long time, I have only ever seen one horse (full size horse) with a real problem, and his owner was fanatical about sheath cleaning. Her vet told her to simply "leave it alone"!

And your last comment, see this is what I have a problem with, someone suggesting that the only way to responsibly manage their horses, is to do things the way they do!

:

:

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If the horses are healthy and comfortable, who is anyone else to say that a person is not responsible because they don't see a problem where there isn't one?

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

wash as in rinse after exercise or during bathing, fine, but invading somewhere unnecessarily, nope.

LOL Not to get in the middle of your debate here guys but really lets be honest it is no different then someone doing a pelvic for women do we like to have it done NO WAY - do I rush to make the appt for myself NO WAY

Do i honestly feel it is necessary to have well we wont to get graphic but shoe horns should pretty much say enough

:

However it is NECESSARY as part of routine health care for women sexually active or not and many times we would have NO idea there was a problem were it not for this quite icky but necessary routine exam

To me I feel it is the same way with my horses first off it is mortifying to me to have them drop and be all peely and icky looking, secondly I might not know there could be a issue unless it is something that is done

I sometimes do drug testing at horse shows so have to admit I have had occasion to sit and stare at horses for hours waiting on any sign to look like they might be getting ready to fill the pee pee cup. I cant tell you how many horses I see that are swollen, crusty, stinky and peeling ICK

JMO

 

[Beccy]

Do i honestly feel it is necessary to have well we wont to get graphic but shoe horns should pretty much say enough

:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I am with you on that one Lisa!!!

I sometimes do drug testing at horse shows so have to admit I have had occasion to sit and stare at horses for hours waiting on any sign to look like they might be getting ready to fill the pee pee cup. I cant tell you how many horses I see that are swollen, crusty, stinky and peeling ICK

JMO

If there is swelling or a foul smell, then something needs to be done, but any vet I have dealt with has said some peeling is normal and is not a cause for concern, and honestly, I have not seen much scaliness on any of our boys. Most of them look clean as a whistle.

 

[jbrat]

Ok thought, I'd add my 2 cents - or should I say my experience.

I have a 25 yr old QH gelding, I've had him about 25 yrs. When I was showing him he'd get rinsed out, so to speak, at bathtime. Well he's retired now and doesn't get nearly as many baths.

A few years ago he swelled up like a softball, I had the vet out and he cleaned him and removed the bean, gave him some antibiotics and he was fine. But vet said I should clean him good at least once a year.

Well about a month ago he started swelling so I got out the rubber gloves and went to work. since it had been a few months anyway. I have done this task many times before, but this time I couldn't believe the "bean" ( which looked like a chunk of hard mud) I removed, it was huge.

( I might add that it takes a few times exploring to figure out whats what in there, I've never been able to get him to drop for me, so I have to clean him by feel only) Watching for the replys on getting them to drop w/o drugs.

I have learned that it does need done - on my gelding- probably twice a year or more. I don't want him to have to swell and be uncomfortable because I'm waiting to see a problem. I want to prevent the problem. Especially after this last ordeal. I had cleaned him removed the huge Bean, his swelling went down and came back 2 weeks later, so I called the vet. He said I probably didn't get all the bean and it would be a day or 2 before he could make it out. So I put the gloves back on and tried again. Sure enough there was still a little(tiny compared to the 1st) bean left in there. Swelling was down the next day so the vet didn't have to make a special trip. And he's fine now.

After doing the QH I cleaned my shetland for the first time, he had never been done before and to my suprise he did very well, he's one I would have thought would have to sedate but he stood fine for the whole process, He was a little confused at first but he adapted well,,lol.

Maybe as a horse gets older is when they need alittle more attention.

This is just my learning experience But I'm going to put it in my grooming routine for all the geldings at least 1-2 times a year and of course my OH gelding more often. Even if its just a gentle rinse with warm water or hose.

OK now here's a question - What Lube do you use? I've heard to use something like to loosen and soften the segma, and for the horses comfort.

I used mineral oil because it was available at the time- and then rinsed well with water.

I've also heard about using:

EXcallibur

Baby oil

KY jelly

veg. oil

I've never tried them but thought I'd ask.

THanks !

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

"people feel that digging around to "find the beans" is absolutely necessary"

Yes! I certainly do. But you certainly don't have to dive into their sheath to find the bean, the bean is in the glands.

"When I say infection, I am referring to diseases that can be transmitted from one horse to another, which is far less likely in a small closed operation, than on a stud farm. "

Yes, you are quite right. But washing them will absolutely not protect against any STD

It will only protect against bacteria found in the smegma, and even then it won't make it sterile, just clean.

"I have only ever seen one horse (full size horse) with a real problem, and his owner was fanatical about sheath cleaning. Her vet told her to simply "leave it alone"!"

Yup! Seen that too. We had one horse that was washed every single day with novisan scrub and packed with an anti-bacterial (he had a tiny ****oo in his sheath, little sore spot). He had the biggest infection you can imagine, caused by too much washing. That's why I (and we) suggest plain water, with maybe a gentle soap wash if they are horrendous, with lots and lots of rinsing. Our breeding stallions are rinsed every other day during the busy part of the breeding season, and not a single infection in any of them.

jbrat: I do not use any soap like Excaliber or Ivory because its difficult to rinse out completely, and you can cause irritation to some of the sensitive tissue there. If its so bad you DO need soap, I'd suggest using a 1:20 dilution of Ivory unscented soap (with lots of water... I mean dilute the bottle then use that dilution like you would use the concentrate for dishes... ie a tiny bit of diluted soap goes a looong way). If you do use soap you need to be very careful to rinse it all out very well.. it can cause irritation if left in. If I need a lube, I usually use your average water-soluble, sterile lube you find at the drug store. KY, Priority Care, SurgiLube... all work wonderfully. Plus, unlike mineral oil or vegitable oil (ick!), they rinse out and even if left in, don't remain squishy too long; the body rinses them out pretty fast. And unlike the oils they are also sterile.

 

[Relic]

We only do ours once a year in early spring starting as yearlings some are fairly gucky some never are. lf a stallions been clipped and going out to show in the summer it's cleaned a second time just so we feel better knowing he's clean everywhere.. :bgrin

 

[Mini Mouse]

Relax and enjoy your equine friends--I think sometimes we worry so much about doing everything right we forget we are in this for the pleasure of it.

Boy do I agree with that statement!! I'm new to minis and have two 7 month old colts. I read and read and read then worry and worry and worry about doing everything that I'm suppose to be doing that sometimes I wonder if I'm cut out to have minis. I love my little guys so much and want them to have the very best of care but wonder if I'm doing everything that needs to be done. I've read about cleaning sheaths but the breeder I bought from said they didn't do it. Now I'm just confused!! I'll do some feeling around and see if I can do it. Is it just cleaning the penis when it drops and up under the skin??

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

The most visible part is the penis, yes. The bean is also very important, as is the smegma up in the sheath. Even when they are drawn up inside you can feel the large chunks of smegma just inside the entrance. That's the part that is nasty too. You don't want to scrub too hard there, as they get very painful. Most horses object when you wash too hard above the prepucial ring.

 

[Tony]

I guess I am a very negligent owner, after sixty plus years of horse ownership, I have yet to clean, nor feel the need to clean one. Mother Nature is an amazing help when allowed to do her job.