colic - need any help you can give me

[sfmini]

We give 10 ML (CC) per 100 pounds, about 30 for an adult. Not like you will overdose at that dosage.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Trying this again! I just typed a long post, and the cyber fairies gobbled it up!

The short version is this. You asked about grain. I wouldn't give her any grain till you get this resolved. It definitely sounds like ulcers, and grain is the worst thing for ulcers. You should see improvement after the third dose of Ulcergard, but don't stop giving it to her. It takes about a month to really heal completely. Good luck with her! We all know that helpless feeling you have right now!

 

[LRMiniatureShetlands]

Sounds like ulcers.....

Ulcergard, give for 30 days even if your horse improves. It takes at least 30 days for ulcers to completely heal. The human version does not work as well for horses, use Ulcergard which is formulated for equines.

Here is a rebate link - http://merialequinerebates.com/ulcergard-gastrogard/

I do not use Pepto for ulcers, others may disagree - please read here http://americashorsedaily.com/bismuth-can-cause-gastric-irritation/

 

[Winchester Farms]

Thank you lr miniature Shetlands! I just have her the second dose of ulcergard. She seems better. Good gut sounds. Eating grass well. Drinking and looks like she even ate a tiny bit of hay. Still no poop though

 

[Debby - LB]

some horses don't like it (I've never had one but I'm told they don't) but Pumpkin or Pumpkin seeds are good to feed, especially for a horse with a upset stomach.

 

[Debby - LB]

I hope your little mare is continuing to improve!

I went back over your posts and wanted to comment more on some of this.



1. no she never pooped normally. just cow patties to a little more runny than patties, to nothing.
2. i wonder about the blockage too, but wouldnt she be in pain? or have zero cut sounds?
3. She seems better. Good gut sounds. Eating grass well. Drinking and looks like she even ate a tiny bit of hay. Still no poop though

Number one. This is why I was concerned about a blockage. My little mare presented with almost the same symptoms as yours and hers was a phytobezoar. Her partial blockage was only allowing runny stool to pass.

Number two. Sometimes they will be in severe pain and sometimes not. Symptoms may begin just as you describe, it depends on what kind of blockage and the position and/or size of it. As far as the gut sounds sometimes it won't be zero gut sounds but the pitch of the sounds you hear that will alert the Vet that something is wrong..

Number three. This has me concerned. Since she is eating and drinking, no poop for well over a week doesn't sound right. It is very possible she is eating it, this is not uncommon. Otherwise (to me) no poop = blockage.

Since you have seen a improvement I would continue with the Ulcergard. I'd make sure I could get her out and walk her to green grass and make sure to keep some fresh grass hay in front of her at all times. Like Ridgerunner said No grain. I'd continue with some Gatorade too. If your hay is coarse or stemmy soak it first for a little while and shake all the excess water off of it and put it somewhere that sand or dirt doesn't stick to it. Also it's imperative to make sure she drinks plenty of water. If she's the type that does not drink a lot, start putting a little salt on her hay or give her some apple with salt on it.

The only other thing I can think of right now is has she been on a good worming program?

 

[Kim P]

Would it help to give her some yogurt or buttermilk? I had to give it to my foal for diarrhea. It helps people get regular too. I am new to horses so I don't normally try to give advice. I am usually asking for advice. Maybe someone will comment on my suggestion.

 

[Winchester Farms]

Thank you Kim P and Debbie LB for your suggestions! I have an update. Just gave her the 4 th dose of ulcergard and we have POOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TWO piles even!!!! I got so excited I took pictures to share but I can't figure out how to post them on here with my phone. The piles would be normal sized but each nugget in that pile is very small- about milk dud size and very dark. I wonder if it's still from the mineral oil? Does this rule out impaction? Still not eatting any hay. I have orchard hay and a grass mix with a bit of alfalfa in it. I have piles of both hays dry and soaked in water but not interested. Eating grass well. And seems to be drinking more water than she has in a while. I'm so happy and really really hope this is a good sign. What do you think?

 

[Minimor]

Mineral oil poop will be oily.

Dark poop may be from the medication; it could also mean blood.

Small nuggets may indicate impaction particularly if they are dry nuggets--but definitely the fact that you got poop is a good sign.

If she is eating grass --that's a good thing. Grass is a natural laxative so should help things to move on through. Next best thing would be leafy soft alfalfa--another laxative and also good if she does have ulcers.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

Small balls might also just be from having nothing in her belly for awhile! Could also be from the antacids.

Keep her hydrated. Some take longer than others to come out of it - she might just be a late bloomer or have a low pain tolerance, but whatever you are doing is working!

 

[Ryan Johnson]

Wonderful news

I agree with Minimor alfalfa is a great tummy soother , keep us posted and I hope she continues to improve

 

[targetsmom]

Sorry that I only saw this today.. it does sound like ulcers so keep going with the Ulcergaard. Alfalfa in any form should help, as will grass. Grass is probably the very best thing. I had one hospitalized with hyperlipemia, which is what minis (especially) can get if they don't eat for a few days. Karo will help if they won't eat anything, but grass will still be the best. For alfalfa, we have had the best luck with soaked cubes or Triple Crown Alfa-lox, which our minis think is a treat but has pre and/or pro-biotics and other good stuff in addition to the alfalfa. Good luck !!!

 

[Winchester Farms]

Tuesday morning update. - after I hand grazed her yesterday I noticed she looked extremely tired in her pen, like she could barely keep her eyes open. Did not want any treats. About 30-40 minutes later i noticed she was lying down. She would get up when j walked outside but went back to lying down. Was not looking at her stomach (like I've seen her do a lot) or rolling- my husband and I figured she was just tired or in a bit of pain because things are moving finally?

This morning she was lying down and jumped right up. Did not eat any hay overnight and was slowly half heartedly eatting some treats. I decided to give her 100mg dose of banamine because the regular 250 dose would make her a zombie for 12-16 hours. I did notice another pile of milk duds that were dark except two which were normal color and had mucus (I think) Around them. When I left for work she was lying down- doesn't seem to be in pain. My plan with the banamine was to take the edge off but now I'm thinking that pain meds constipate so now I'm not so sure ?

 

[Debby - LB]

It does sound like at one time she was impacted. She probably quit eating because of the ulcers, who knows which came first. She's still presenting just like my Shortcake did. Thankfully my Shortcake was very tiny at 28" because when she got to the very weak and laying down stage we had to carry her to the front yard to eat the pretty green grass, she too got so tired, weak, lethargic.. called the Vet and she said it was imperative I give her some Karo syrup or some mixed sugar water immediately until she could get here. This is when she was diagnosed with Hyperlipidemia. It's possible this is happening to your mare, she is accumulating fat in her blood, as it continues you are looking at liver failure. This is secondary to whatever went on with her. Your Vet can help you treat her for this. Please call her out, you mare needs help NOW.

Banamine I would not have given unless she was so uncomfortable that you could not stop her from rolling. If she was lying comfortably that would have been O.K. I don't want to scare you so I do want to say that my horse pulled out of it, we did save her.

Oh..If you did give her Pepto Bismol? that would make her stool dark to black. BUT like Minimor said it can also be from blood. You don't give any Pepto unless she has Diarrhea bad that you can't stop, in that case like I said you can use Pepto or Kaopectate. I hate to sound like a broken record but it's very important to keep her hydrated, don't assume she's drinking enough, like I said use a syringe.. and mentioning that, don't try to squirt it down her throat just put it in her mouth in her cheek and gently squeeze it. The mucus is from the stool being in there so long. Again I'm so sorry this is happening and also I hope none of my suggestions seem harsh or scare you.

PS not sure I'm understanding the Banamine dosage.? I think I remember you saying she was like 225 pounds? Someone else might can step in who has some Banamine paste but I'm thinking 125 mg is tops for a 250 pound horse so 250 mg for a 225 pound horse is too much OR I should say I think it is.

-

 

[Winchester Farms]

Debbie LB - you are not scaring me, i appriciate all your help and ive been doing my best. its just been very hard with a useless vet, and working 12 hours days

ive been thinking of this too - you asked me about worming. a couple years ago the vet told me that people are only worming twice a year now. when she was up there for a week she asked me the last time i wormed her. i said december, and she said she would worm her again. well i didnt thnk anything of it. this morning i was thinking, and i checked the bill, and saw she wormed her with quest. im so frusterated and now even more so. of course i assumed she wouldnt give her quest. this is a pretty big facility wth about 9 vets so i trusted these people. i have to work all day, wish i could be home with her. the vet will not come back and keeps claiming she will "be wasting my money and she needs to be taken to the hospital" im beyond stressed.

 

[Winchester Farms]

also - no pepto, just ulcergard, electroltye paste, gatorade

 

[Debby - LB]

I am so sorry. You work such long days and have to try to deal with sick pets at home, I can't imagine the stress you are under.

If your mare has a history with you of being regularly wormed and the dosage of Quest given to your mare was accurate for her weight that would be fine. However in my own opinion moxidectin should not have been given to her under the circumstances. The problem with Quest comes in when the horse is worm infested and/or you do not know the horses exact weight. This is because the kill rate is so large it's toxic to the horse. With Miniature Horses they have to be dosed at their correct weight and if not and there is a large worm kill it IS toxic to the horse, there is No margin for error in Mini Horses. Most Miniature Horse people don't use it because of the margin of error. Quest (moxidectin) has minimal overdose room and it is very important to know the exact weight of your horse.

The label on Quest.. and please tell me if I'm wrong because I know this is what it used to say.. The Quest labeling said extreme caution should be used in foals, young horses and Miniature Horses. It also says DO NOT use it on sick, debilitated, or under weight animals so it concerns me too that this was used on your mare.

 

[Winchester Farms]

i dont have a quest tube on me, but im sure it does still, i remember it saying that years ago. im not sure exactly how much she weighs but im figuring around 225 but i could be wrong. with the banamine she gave me a tube of paste. she wrote on the tube 250# per dose. so i guess it goes 1 per pound. the whole tube is maybe 1500-2000 i forget. ive been giving her 250, which really seems to knock her out. except this morning which i did 100

 

[Debby - LB]

I looked it up and it says the recommended dose of flunixin is 0.5 mg per lb of body weight once daily, says it's calibrated in twelve 250-lb weight increments, delivering 125 mg of flunixin for each 250 lbs

So the 125mg of flunixin given at the 250 increment is correct.. actually should be closer to 112.50 mg. (if she weighs 225) but this dosage is O.K. I was thinking it was 250mg of the product!! I was worried since that would cause ulceration of the gastrointestinal tract...same as the Quest if overdosed. I hope she weighed her or estimated her weight correctly, it's very easy to be wrong about their weight.

I don't remember, did you ever say how tall she is?

 

[Debby - LB]

thought of something else. When you get home you'll need to check her hooves also while she's going through this to feel for overly warm hooves and check her digital pulse.