Color Opinions?

[ohmt]

I am usually pretty good when it comes to genetics and colors! This little guy has me stumped though and I'd like some opinions. He was born solid chestnut. He started to develop varnishing on his face and when I shave him I was pleasantly surprised with a lot of spots, however, they were a mix of red, brown, and black! I also noticed that a lot of the new hair coming in is black and his mane is coming in a dark gray. I've had silver bays before, but I've never had one get all the black hairs.

Dam is solid chestnut-no silver

Sire is a bay leopard appy-his dam is a silver bay so now I am thinking he is actually silver bay and this colt is also silver bay? The dark gray mane is what is getting me though as it should be flaxen if he is silver bay.

This is a pic of his front half which hasn't changed as much as the rest of him (please excuse his awful 'hair cut', my clippers died half way through!). He was RED

Now here are a few pictures of his rump where all the weird colors are coming in

And here is a head shot that shows how is mane is coming in dark gray-this just shows his forelock, but the rest of his mane in coming in like that as well

Any ideas? I am really thinking silver bay, but want to see what everyone else thinks. Maybe the black is wishful thinking

 

[Mona]

I would say he is sorrel.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

He is Sorrel.

I think you may have a minimal Appy- just varnish, the spots are normal on a red based male, I get them lots of times. If he did not have an Appy sire I would say it is normal Ben dor spots + Sabino roaning, but with the Appy sire in the mix there is every chance the roaning is varnish. Pattern/ colour shows most on a red base male, we know that, so he has every chance of expressing varnish.

I do not expect him to spot out, though, and I personally, would not call him an Appy, just a colt with minimal Appy characteristics.

The mane and tail are also normal in a sorrel, I cannot actually see what you describe as grey in the mane, I just see a normal sorrel mane?

Sorrel/Chestnut, especially males, does lots of odd things in it's first change of coat, I have a colt at the moment who you would swear is Pintaloosa - I wish!

There is also the point that, if he is expressing minimally, the mane and tail will be turned grey by the Appy.

You'll just have to wait ans see

 

[Sue_C.]

I do not expect him to spot out, though, and I personally, would not call him an Appy, just a colt with minimal Appy characteristics.

I don't expect he will spot-out either, but do think you will have a varnish roan appy...so I definately would consider him an appy...all the way. Heck, there are registered appaloosas with less colour than this guy is showing. I had a mare that was born solid, and didn't colour till she was five...then snowflaked...she has produced several blanket appy foals when bred to my absolutely solid stallion...so having a lot of colour early on doesn't "make or break" an appy as far as colour goes.

 

[ohmt]

He is Sorrel.I think you may have a minimal Appy- just varnish, the spots are normal on a red based male, I get them lots of times. If he did not have an Appy sire I would say it is normal Ben dor spots + Sabino roaning, but with the Appy sire in the mix there is every chance the roaning is varnish. Pattern/ colour shows most on a red base male, we know that, so he has every chance of expressing varnish.

I do not expect him to spot out, though, and I personally, would not call him an Appy, just a colt with minimal Appy characteristics.

The mane and tail are also normal in a sorrel, I cannot actually see what you describe as grey in the mane, I just see a normal sorrel mane?

Sorrel/Chestnut, especially males, does lots of odd things in it's first change of coat, I have a colt at the moment who you would swear is Pintaloosa - I wish!

There is also the point that, if he is expressing minimally, the mane and tail will be turned grey by the Appy

Already knew he was appy

And he has already 'spotted out'. Those spots on his rump aren't just from clipping or from his chestnut color-they are appaloosa spots. He is varnishing out and his face and neck and are almost all white right now so I expect him to be an almost all white varnish appy with the spots on his rump. These pictures are a month old so it is hard to see the dark gray coming in in his mane. You can see it coming in on the face picture with his forelock. It is very dark. I have had chestnuts with dark manes and tails and some with even gray manes and tails, but nothing like this little guy. Also, even horses with appaloosa characteristics are called appaloosa. They have the appaloosa gene and are capable of passing it on, so therefore are appaloosa. I have a black appaloosa mare who is solid black with just mottling and she has given me blankets and a near leopard by solid stallions. She is appaloosa.

I am thinking I will go ahead and test him for silver and black, just for the heck of it! I'd like to test his sire as well, because now I am curious to see if he is actually a silver bay and not just bay like I had thought. On his temp papers it says chestnut appaloosa so I'm wondering if maybe he wasn't born more red and then got his black spots later like his son.

This is why I love appaloosas so much-you never know what you're going to get! Even 5 years later

 

[ohmt]

Here is his sire:

Possibly silver bay?

ETA: Found another picture that I took this past spring. It's a horrible picture so don't judge him too much! He was in the process of shedding, but it shows his color a bit better

And another of him as a foal I just found-this one really makes me think he has silver

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I am confused now. If you already know what colour/pattern he is why were you asking?

 

[ohmt]

I apologize for making things confusing! I was just interested in color opinions-already know the pattern, but I do appreciate everyone trying to help with that

 

[chandab]

I'd say sorrel. His body looks red, even where clipped. My bays and even silver bays don't look red when clipped, the bays are darker underneath, and my silver bays have been silvery-gray underneath.

 

[Lmequine]

Silver bay appy. I had a silver bay Shetland stallion here and his mane was a dark silver gray and would sun fade to flaxen on the tips.

 

[ohmt]

Thanks everyone! I think I will test him for silver, red/black, and agouti just to ease my curiosity. Love all of the surprises I get with my appaloosas, but it really does some strange things to color sometimes!

 

[Mini bell]

I know another mini who has the same type of spots, we call him a chestnut.

What is the little guy's name?

 

[ohmt]

Hi Mini Bell! This was from a few years ago, but an update on my favorite little guy ("Vendetta"): his sire IS in fact a silver bay and not just bay like I had thought when I bought him. Vendetta is chestnut and carries agouti, but no silver (or black). I adore him and he is my favorite gelding

He never did get any mottling on his face, but plenty every where else-perfect for showing because I really don't like all of the face mottling myself. His mane did come in very dark grey and his coat is very washy from his varnishing, but his spots come in very nicely now. I wish I had a good updated picture for every one, but I only have face pics of him giving kisses. Maybe next spring!