color question on 2012 colt

[chandab]

I know what his color possibilities are, and after looking at these two pics, I can kind of see why registry changed his color to chestnut, but... What do you think his color is?





A little help for you:

Dam is registered as cremello, but based on baby pics I saw, I'm thinking smokey cream is more likely. [pictured with him above.]

Sire is black bay.

Here's Topper:

 

[Mona]

He almost reminds me of a smokey silver black.

 

[Lil Eowyn]

After looking it up, I agree with Mona.

 

[Jill]

His shade is different than my own smokey silver black as a foal... but I cannot think of another option to fit the parameters -- so I agree

 

[chandab]

Well, I tried to register him as a smokey silver black, but AMHR changed it to chestnut, which isn't even remotely possible. [i was told they go by the color in the pics sent it. Well, it would have been better if they just listed him as silver black; or perhaps they could have chosen silver buckskin.]

there was a time last summer that I suspected he could mature to silver buckskin, here's a pic I tried to get at that time:



He was getting golden goggles.

It'll be interesting to see what this summer brings with first shed (more likely clip).

 

[Carolyn R]

If my searches were correct, the sire should also carry a red gene from his dam, (grand dam to the foal). Hunt house farms blaze of glory was a sorrel, not sure on that one, trying to find pictures of her, may have come across the wrong horse. If that info is correct, the sire has to have a red gen from her, so Topper carries a red and a black gene plus agouti, and the dam, if I have the correct mare from your site, Bonnie, can also have a red gene from Her sire, Little kings Buckeroo God (cremello=red, red, + two creams)

In this pic, I can see why one may think the foal has the red gene, from the pics on your site, he looks darker. While I agree with others on his color, testing would be the only real way to verify exactly what he is. He almost looks to have a pearl gene.

 

[stormy]

His dam sure could be hiding silver and in my own personal experiance though silver impacts black it can also kind of mute other colors...my guess is silver smokey black but as others have said DNA is the only way to know when so many possibilities are there.

 

[chandab]

If my searches were correct, the sire should also carry a red gene from his dam, (grand dam to the foal). Hunt house farms blaze of glory was a sorrel, not sure on that one, trying to find pictures of her, may have come across the wrong horse. If that info is correct, the sire has to have a red gen from her, so Topper carries a red and a black gene plus agouti, and the dam, if I have the correct mare from your site, Bonnie, can also have a red gene from Her sire, Little kings Buckeroo God (cremello=red, red, + two creams)

In this pic, I can see why one may think the foal has the red gene, from the pics on your site, he looks darker. While I agree with others on his color, testing would be the only real way to verify exactly what he is. He almost looks to have a pearl gene.

Topper's paperwork list Blaze of Glory as Black. And, I suspect "George" (LK Buckeroo God) is smokey cream; I've seen too many smokey black-based foals out of sorrel mares by him.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Whatever he is, with a CrCr dam he cannot be Sorrel. I am sick and tired of registries allowing someone who quite obviously knows NOTHING about colour to change colour on papers sent in. By all means hold the papers and query with the owner but to change them? No, it should not be allowed. Just should not. I think it is beyond arrogant and if it were my foal (and trust me I have been in this situation with the AMHA) I would send the papers back with a quick "Colour 101" attached and ask them to kindly change them back, free of charge, and not to do this to any of your papers, ever again. This is what I did, I even rang the office and remember I am on the other side of the Atlantic. I actually managed to let them know how cross I was without losing my cool, too! The person on the phone was, as always in the AMHA office, charming, but it does not help when you know a horse is a certain colour.

I think you are going to have to test this one, I am thinking Smoky Silver Black, but I think you should also consider Smoky Silver Brown, as this foal does not quite fit the normal parameters.

 

[ohmt]

Looks like a silver smokey black to me. Can't stand when the registries change colors either.

 

[chandab]

I think you are going to have to test this one, I am thinking Smoky Silver Black, but I think you should also consider Smoky Silver Brown, as this foal does not quite fit the normal parameters.

Well, if he were to come up smokey silver brown, then he could be registered silver buckskin and it would technically be correct, since brown is a version of bay.

 

[stormy]

By the way AMHA from comments returned to me with papers silver black is accepted without question but Smokey anything requires DNA proof...not sure why, my smokey black pinto colt is registered as buckskin pinto for this reason.

 

[chandab]

By the way AMHA from comments returned to me with papers silver black is accepted without question but Smokey anything requires DNA proof...not sure why, my smokey black pinto colt is registered as buckskin pinto for this reason.

Probably because its harder to visually tell if a horse is smokey black, smokey brown, etc. Silver black is fairly easy to tell just by looking.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Still not right to make you falsify a legal document, I wish someone with more money than me would call them on it!! Mind you, it is ridiculous that I should even have to think like that, the AMHA and the AMHR both belong to their members, they should flipping well listen to what they are saying instead of sticking their heads in the sand!

 

[mshasta88]

This is just a shot it in the dark because I have yet to have a smokey silver black foal but I have owned smokey silver black horses.

He reminds me a very dark palomino?

It would be very inexpensive to just have him tested for base color and go from there.

 

[mshasta88]

I too had a mare registered as buckskin in one registry and a silver dapple in another. Here DNA test proved that she was in fact a smokey silver roan. [/size]

With that said, I often leave a note on my registration applications stating that I can show proof that they are what I say they are. I’ve yet to have a registry discount it as long as they know I’m serious. It really would be nice to see someone with some genetics background double checking papers before completion.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I do not think he is Palomino- there is actually no genetic reason why he could not be, but that "cast" to his coat just makes me suspicious. I have bred an awful lot of Palominos in my time and although they can, of course, be that dark, I have never had one that colour, personally.

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I agree (for what its worth ) that he is probably smoky silver black but.... is there any chance the mare carries champagne? In the pictures posted he looks very much like a classic champagne. Just a wild thought based on the colour his pictures appear on my screen.

 

[chandab]

I agree (for what its worth ) that he is probably smoky silver black but.... is there any chance the mare carries champagne? In the pictures posted he looks very much like a classic champagne. Just a wild thought based on the colour his pictures appear on my screen.

I really have no idea if the mare could have champagne. Her dam is smokey silver black (listed as just silver black) and her sire is listed as cremello (sure he's smokey cream; his sire is Buckeroo, so buckskin and, his dam also listed as buckskin).

 

[mshasta88]

Well, I tried to register him as a smokey silver black, but AMHR changed it to chestnut, which isn't even remotely possible. [i was told they go by the color in the pics sent it. Well, it would have been better if they just listed him as silver black; or perhaps they could have chosen silver buckskin.]

there was a time last summer that I suspected he could mature to silver buckskin, here's a pic I tried to get at that time:

View attachment 14380

He was getting golden goggles.

It'll be interesting to see what this summer brings with first shed (more likely clip).

Yes, I’m probably wrong but the only reason I thought of palomino is because in this older photo, He appears to have a lot more Gold color under the baby fuzz (around his eyes). Unless this is a silver buckskin we are looking at.

Now correct me if I’m wrong but my smokey silver blacks never had this shad of gold in their coats. Again I never had a smokey silver black as a foal, just full grown mares so I’ll be grateful to admit that I’m wrong.