color question

[Vanessa]

Hello, I have a question for all the color experts on this forum. I normally speak Dutch or French, I live in Belgium, so excuse me for my mistakes. I'll try my best to make you understand my question.

I just bought a very tiny colt, he is 5 months old and a silverdapple with bleu eyes and appaloosamarkings. When I told his breeder that I think he's a pintaloosa, he didn't believe me, so I'll ask here,

His behind legs are a little bit with white socks, his dam is a palomino pinto who carries the silvergen and his sire a black appaloosa with blanket. So it's possible.

Because he has blue eyes, I think he also is a frame or overo, I cant' see it with his dam because she is a palomino and I can't see her markings.

My questions are, what color is Silverado exactly and what colors and markings can his offspring have?

Some pics,

Silverado with his mother, just a few days old,

Silverado present day,

His behind legs,

And one of a blue eye of Silverado,

 

[Songcatcher]

I agree that genetically he is Pintaloosa and capable of producing Appaloosa, Pinto, or Pintaloosa. However, most will go by visual markings and will not recognize the white socks as being Pinto, and probably just refer to him as Appaloosa.

 

[Sandee]

Unless there is some other white markings that don't show in the photo, I'd not call him pinto. He cannot be registered pinto (at least over here) as they will not accept any with the appaloosa markings, however if he didn't have the appy, I still don't see white anywhere that pinto would accept. According to Pinto the socks are not enough.

He doesn't look very old and these guys change with age so pinto spots could still show up. At least they are still showing up on my silver dapple pinto. He has white marks on his throat and neck that weren't there (or at least weren't visible) when he was younger.

 

[Vanessa]

I'm not saying that he's a pinto, but I want to know if he's a pintaloosa. (pinto+appaloosa) I want to know this, so I would know the possibilities of his offspring. And if he's genetically a pintaloosa, then I know enough. I also would like to know how he gets his blue eyes. Because his dam or his sire doesn't have blue eyes. Does his blue eyes means that he's a splash or overo? It's possible his dam is one of those, but I can't see her markings because it's hard to see, she is palomino and very light of color.

He has litle white markings over his body, but I think that they are appaloosa-spots.

 

[Lisa]

I think he is genetically a pintaloosa as well.

Reasons being:

1. You mention little white markings on his body.

Expression of Sabino (Overo): "Another common characteristic of Sabino is roaning, this is the most minimal expression of Sabino."

Do the markings look like this?

2. Sabino can cause nothing more than socks in its minimum expression. Many experts believe that ALL white markings are caused by Sabino.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

He appears to be a Minimal Splash + Appy, thus, genetically he is a Pintaloosa.

Sabino may or may not be present but it would have to be Frame or Splash to produce blue eyes.

I would test him for LWO (Lethal White Overo) if you intend to breed him to Pinto mares.

Although there is not Frame in indigenous horses there may well be in imported horses and it is not worth the risk, not for $25.00.

Oh and belated greetings from Sunny England!!!

 

[Vanessa]

Thank you for the answers. Silverado has been clipped, he had his first show on the 10th september, (he has won his class, colts 2006. )

:

The markings could be roaning, I didn't think of that, but now that you mention this, it's possible. I will try to post a picture of him so you can see this white markings, it's mostly on his head and neck. When he was just clipped, you could see it better.

This is a picture that I took the next day of clipping him, but is not very sharp.

I've read about that test, and you're right it's not worth the risk, so I will test him, is it also possible to test him if he carries the creme-gen.

Thanks for the greetings, :saludando:

 

[Lisa]

You have a very pretty colt.

Thank you rabbit, I was trying to remember the pattern responsible for blue eyes.

That is a very good idea to test him for LWO.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Yes, you can test for Black, Red Cream, Agouti (turns Black to Bay) but not Silver, or Dun.

You can also test for Homozygous Tobiano (which he is unlikely to be!!) and Lethal White Overo (Frame) and not for Splash or Sabino (there is a test for Sabino but is unspecific and not IMO worth it at the moment)

 

[Meavey]

Hi Vanessa good to see you here.

If he inhereted tobiano from his dam the tiny socks could be from tobiano, but it could easy be from splash or sabino alone in that case I would not call him pintaloosa, only if he does have tobiano.

If it´s from splash (or frame) he would be overoloosa technically, but without marking on the body I feel that is a bit over the top to call him that.

Btw what are the colors of the dams parents?

She actually looks kinda grey to me? Anyone else see that too?

:

 

[Vanessa]

Hi meavey,

I've no idea what color her dam and sire have. I've already seen three foals of her, the first was a very tiny palomino filly, the second a silver bay filly (Dream come true, you know

: ) and this year she had Silverado. She was imported from America, her name is Alamos Folbres Chysaline, her sire was MC Farlins Folbre and dam Littelest Angels G GS. I don't have pictures of this horses. Does anyone know this horses or their breeders?

 

[Tammie-C_Spots]

Visually I'd call him a silver dapple appaloosa. Genetically I think he carries overo and appaloosa because of the sox, blue eyes and appy because it looks like he's got the spots on his rump.

Tammie

 

[Dona]

I think the mare "appears" to be a Silver Buckskin....definitely not palomino with those darker legs. She also has white socks. Can't tell about any body markings she may have...but the white socks alone, would indicate that she carries at least one pinto gene. I agree with RabbitFizz, in that the blue eyes have to come from either Splash or Frame overo. Parents do not have to have blue eyes to pass them to their foals. One of the colts we produced here, Kickapoo's Nickelodeon, was a solid Silver Dapple with brown eyes. The only white he had on him was a tiny star & snip on his nose....and 1/2 of a white coronet on a rear leg. He has gone on to throw several wildly marked Splash Overos with blue eyes, from solid mares.

:

So..yes...IMHO, your boy would be considered a Pintaloose (or "Overoloosa"!) and could most certainly go on to throw pintos as well as appys!

 

[Vanessa]

This are the little white markings on Silverado's neck, are this appaloosa spots or is it roaning?

Does anyone know the right color of his dam? Her sire was a Dark Grulla with Flaxen Mane & Tail.

 

[Meavey]

The picture you posted on the other forum of the dams sire is a silver dapple not grulla.

 

[Vanessa]

The picture you posted on the other forum of the dams sire is a silver dapple not grulla.

OK, now I know for sure that there are a lot of people who makes mistakes when it comes to colors!

: I looked the sire up and found him on a website where they discribed him as a grulla but when I look at the picture of the stallion, I agree with you, Meavey!

:

 

[Meavey]

And often those colors are also put wrong on the papers so we can keep guessing and searching how the heck a horse can be a certain color.

:

 

[whimsical]

Littlest Angel GGs ------ is from Christy Darmonds farm. GG was a cremello. I am not a genetics person but that could be a piece of the puzzle.

The dam is listed as a cremello also.

The Sire is owned by Jane Macon of Alamo Miniatures. She should be able to tell you the true color of the sire to solve this mystery.

 

[Jill]

Yes, I do agree with what you suspected, that he is genetically a pintaloosa, a silver dapple pintaloosa. His colors are beautiful!

You did a great job wording the question!!!

 

[Vanessa]

Thanks everybody for the answers, this is really a nice forum.

:

Now I can go tell to the breeder of Silverado that he sold me a pintaloosa. Maybe most of the people won't see him like that but I don't care. The most important thing for me, is to know what kind of foals I can expect in the future when he will be my herd sire. For the next years to come, he will do some shows and I hope he will get some good results as a showhorse, and later as my herd sire, he will give me some surprises in his offspring. That would be so great!

I'm already dreaming! :bgrin

For now, he's just my little sweetheart!

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