Country Pleasure Driving at Nationals

[midnight star stables]

For the most part, I have been impressed with horses showing in the right driving class, but I must say that some of the horses in the Country Pleasure class (in the 36 -38" division), IMO should NOT be there! I like a good moving horse, but some of those horses are Pleasure Driving horses... It is sad to see and I hope they get placed lower because of it!

There are only 1 or 2, but still, I feel that they should not get extra points for being big movers. It is a class of 9 horses.

 

[midnight star stables]

I am not really impressed with how that class was placed. There were some good horses and some good placings too. Twister went 3rd and the winning horse was very pretty.

As I said before, I have been impressed on the most part but it is too bad a bout this class.

JMHO, but I feel horses in the wrong class like that only add to the dislike of "extreme sheltands" and shetlands with a "modern" influence. IMO, they have a different class and should show in theirs. Some of the horses in the Country class were bigger movers then the ones in the Pleasure class.

And FYI, I have no horse in that class or anything like that. Just an AMHR enthusiast.

 

[CLC Stables]

As a judge, I saw only one in that class that truly didn't fit. The two horses that went Champion and Reserve were also my picks.

 

[Mominis]

I'm going to have to agree with CLC. While a couple of the horses in the CPD class were more upheaded, I didn't feel the movement was extreme or out of place in the division.

 

[CLC Stables]

MOMINIS, you are right and upheadedness doesn't make a horse a pleasure horse by any means.

 

[~Lisa~]

The Silver Meadows horse (the winner) is beautiful and was my pick he has been my pick in almost all the classes he has been in actually.

 

[gvpalominominis]

I also agree with CLC = ) And, I actually was pleased to see that the CWPC horses really did fit also. At least the classes I watched.

IMO, there is also more to winning a driving class than just movement... collection, steadiness, consistency, attitude, etc. I think there were some of those placings in the mix too.

 

[ruffian]

I noticed one "Park Harness" horse in CP and it did not place. That's the way it should be!

 

[midnight star stables]

I love driving, AMHR and modern minis. I show a WCPD and a CPD horse, and you'll never hear me complaining about a better horse.

There was one horse that I would say was excessive in his movement and I was disappointed to see him in a CPD class.

The other I felt had a headset to high, and I disagree that headset makes little difference. A CPD class maybe where there is the most leeway, however honestly you can't have a WCPD and a Pleasure horse having the same headset. It just doesn't work that way, from what I've seen. Last year a friend of mine was told(by one of this years National Driving judges) that their horse is a Pleasure horse, rather then a CPD, BECAUSE of his headset. Not his movement. I myself have a horse that I feel could range from WCPD through to Pleasure if his check was adjusted accordingly. Headset also affects movement and gate.

I was very impressed with the horses at Nationals this year, and to be honest this was the only class that bothered me. There were some amazing horses this year, so I don't want to take away from that. There some amazing horses in that class! I loved the winner, I liked the second horse, and I adore the third horse... So no sours apples or anything.

And I was cheering for horses like Unbridled Masterpiece and Timed To Perfection and Foxy Trotter and Neon Angel... IMO all exceptional horses showing in their element.

 

[CLC Stables]

You are right a WCP horse cannot have the same headset as a pleasure horse because it specifically states in the rulebook that the head must not be more than 5" above the wither.

That is interesting on your friends horse. I would be curious to see it in harness.

 

[disneyhorse]

There will always be horses that someone, somewhere feels is "too extreme" in one way or another in a class. It is SUBJECTIVE and that's why there is a judge, and that is why a placing is the judge's opinion on that horse on that day. It's not black and white.

Andrea

 

[midnight star stables]

You are right a WCP horse cannot have the same headset as a pleasure horse because it specifically states in the rulebook that the head must not be more than 5" above the wither.

That is interesting on your friends horse. I would be curious to see it in harness.

He's a HOF and National Top Ten driving horse, as far as I know.

He's a lovely horse.

But even CPD and Pleasure driving horses have different headset, for the most part, from what I have seen.

I have another friend who has an outstanding horse that has multiple HOF's some of which include Pleasure, CPD and Roadster. This horse mainly only shows in CPD and Roadster, even though he has a HOF in Pleasure driving. Why? He can clearly move out and has a great trot, but he simply can't get his headset high enough to be strongly competitive. IMO.

The whole headset topic really is a personal opinion I guess. And I do find it odd being on this side of the fence, as I am usually for the "extreme" or modern day version. I just felt that this class was had a few exceptions; and with the push and/or hate towards the Modern and Modern pleasure shetland ponies getting AMHR papers, I can only see this getting worse. This makes me fearful of a division of AMHR of "minis" and "shetland minis" which I feel is unfair. I just have a whole bunch of mixed feelings I guess.

 

[Minimor]

If 20 judges, even 10 I suppose, were to tell me that my horse was wrong in some way (high headset) for a specific division (country pleasure) I would be inclined to think it must be so. If only 1 judge were to tell me that same thing, I wouldn't necessarily take it as gospel, because it's entirely possible that another 10 or 20 judges might disagree and say that the horse definitely belongs in country pleasure because of his way of going.

It also is not necessarily a great comparison to make, saying that some of the CP horses were moving higher than some of the PD horses--perhaps that is true, but that doesn't necessarily make the CP horses too high for the division, it may be that some of the horses entered in PD would have been better entered in the CP division. That

I didn't see the class in question so I cannot say what my view of it was...wish I could have seen some of the driving classes!

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Basiclly what they were picking this year was your low end pleasure horses for country, especially in the over division where those pleasure horses just cannot beat those moderns. So basiclly if you look at it that way I really had no complaints about what they were picking as far as country or pleasure goes, I was more watching the WCP as that class actually does have an outline to follow. I have no clue about what you want in Country anymore and Pleasure well whoever has the fanciest movement and doesn't do anything stupid wins.

 

[midnight star stables]

What people are telling me IS what I tell OTHER people. I know that driving is very subjective. That coupled with the fact that I LIKE the extreme, is why I think I am/was having a hard time with that class. I don't say that horse is "too extreme" very often, but when I do say it, it worries me to what others are feeling.

I only really showed in driving this year, and went Reserve CPD Stake champion seven times and Grand once from 9 or 10 judges. My guy also went Area II CPD Reserve Stake champion. One judge, one opinion. I fully understand that and know my horse has many flaws. I'm just saying that I love driving, I really do. I followed many classes at Nationals, and had many classes pick out similarly. It was only the one class that bothered me. Sorry.

And I'm thinking the reason behind it I simply because I love an extreme horse. I don't want to see "Park Harness" horses in every class but the WCPD. Maybe it's just me, and I'm sorry.

 

[ruffian]

There will always be horses that someone, somewhere feels is "too extreme" in one way or another in a class. It is SUBJECTIVE and that's why there is a judge, and that is why a placing is the judge's opinion on that horse on that day. It's not black and white.

Andrea

Nope - THAT was the color classes!!

 

[maryann]

I also was confused about this class. There was some really awesome driving horses in that class. I have never seen so much talent in the ring at one time. My problem is if the head set is subjective as you say , how do you know what is the proper way to set your horse up? At this show you could not use the previous class to determine what the judges were looking for. You had so many types that were placing high. The big black and white had a medium head set, short stride, and a low key trot without a lot of high stepping but with a little bouncing, not going very fast. The Silver Meadows horse had an extreme head set with chin against neck, short high stepping and tons of action, covering lots of ground fast. Twister had his normal average headset, looong sweeping steps, and also covering ground fast. The large bay had more of a park harness appearance, with extreme head set, extreme action , and lots of ground covered fast. All of the horses are so different, yet each placed first in different CP Classes under the same 3 judges. In one class the Silver Meadows horse placed first and the big black and white 2nd. This was from one extreme to the other being the top two horses. I would think that there would be some type of standard that they would judge by but it seemed to change with each class and each horse. I am not critizing any of these horses because they are all breathtaking. Just beautiful. I am just looking for a standard for that class. I also had the same issue with the Country Western Pleasure Classes. It just seemed that too many different types were placed in the top tens for there to be an accepted standard for that class. What am I missing?

 

[disneyhorse]

Each horse will move and set its head according to its individual conformation. Therefore, the judge should be looking at the overall picture and placing what seems to match the class description against the rest of the class. Of course this happens in halter, too, with QH types and Shetland types and Arabian types, the horse should just be judged for its quality.

Andrea