Cowboy Hats

[Carolyn R]

I grew up with big horses. I showed in 4H as a kid. Years later, I have a "tiny" herd.

When I started off looking into showing with minis I attended a clinic with one of the professional mini trainers. I was astounded that it was common practice to bait with hats and or food in the ring. The only thing I was told was don't turn them into a monster and don't feed them a meal in the ring.

With that said, it is not a trick, or something people are trying to "sneak " in to have an advantage. It is allowed by one and all. Weather it be a hat, a cat toy or a tissue or a handkerchief, if we look silly,so be it, at least we are all looking silly as a group.

Sometimes it takes a creative measure to get and keep a horses attention, if it can be pulled off with class, I could care less.

 

[Charlotte]

Riverdance, What you might tell your big horse friend is that the majority of miniatures in the show ring are not 'fear trained'.

There is no reason for a horse to focus on a whip or crop unless they have learned to fear being smacked.

Try it on your own horses. If they have never been hit or intimidated with a whip they pretty much ignore it. To get them watching a whip there has to be a reason.

Charlotte

 

[squeaky]

Hi,

One could say that since we are not allowed a crop in hatler, the cowboy hats have just replaced them as out "prop" for ears. Also, couldn't all of the the danceing and jigging we do in the halter classes be called unprofessional too? Not trying to start a agruement, but just thinking out loud....

As for wearing hats - the lady who first helped tach me about showing always wore a cowboy hat and used it on her horses w/o any smells. Like someone stated on here before, it was the interest of a black hole coming towards them.

As for the smells, it's no different from putting peppermint oil on your glove like some of the Morgan trainers. If you teach the horse to respect your personal space or "bubble," then you can still get that same look (i.e. ears up and neck arched) by just having the peppermint on your glove.

Amanda

 

[Riverdance]

They focus on the tip of the crop, not a big hat which is distracting to everyone around.

Can we use a crop?

No I do not think we can, but it would be less distracting if we could. I know when I bred Morgans, my trainer never used anything but the whip. My horse was trained to park out, head up,neck out and ears forward.

 

[RockRiverTiff]

Can we use a crop?

I've often wondered this too. It's beautiful when an Arab responds to its trainer and the crop, but I think it would look kind of silly with the minis. If it became a trend we'd probably only have people waving them around like a dance cane anyway.

 

[Riverdance]

Riverdance, What you might tell your big horse friend is that the majority of miniatures in the show ring are not 'fear trained'.
There is no reason for a horse to focus on a whip or crop unless they have learned to fear being smacked.

Try it on your own horses. If they have never been hit or intimidated with a whip they pretty much ignore it. To get them watching a whip there has to be a reason.

Charlotte

Not all trainers use the whip as a fear tool. They are taught to follow the wip with treats and rewards. Peppermint candies are another tool they use, and yes the crinkling of the paper on the pepppermints would really get my Morgans to stand at attention. I had one World Champion mare who, as soon as she herd the paper of the pepermint candy, would automaticaly set herself up.

She was definatly not fear trained. When I practiced setting her up, I was taught to use the tip of the whip, to get her eyes focus on that in the ring. Then when the judge was no longer looking at her, to give her a peppermint as a reward.

Any trainer who uses a whip and trains their horses with fear, should no be allowed to train or show. And yes, I know there are many out there, even in our own arenas, as I have watched some of the trainers in the holding area agressively go after the horse they are about to bring into the ring.

 

[Riverdance]

With that said, it is not a trick, or something people are trying to "sneak " in to have an advantage. It is allowed by one and all. Weather it be a hat, a cat toy or a tissue or a handkerchief, if we look silly,so be it, at least we are all looking silly as a group

No one is talking about sneaking anything in, as it seems one can use or do just about anything to get the horse to show, but, perhaps a few more hours of training may be all one needs. (believe me, I should spend more time training my horses to stand and bait for the peppermint too)

But, how many horses do you see in the ring lipping and mouthing for the food, that does not present a very pretty picture either.

 

[wildoak]

The folks I see using a hat to get their horses attention do not wave them around - they simply show the inside of the hat to the horse, and encourage him/her to stretch to it a bit. Looks to my mind a lot smoother than the gymnastics most of us do (and I'm including myself there LOL). My goal the last few years has been to have less movement myself, and train my horses to stand and show better before we get in the ring. Sometimes it works.

Jan

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I don't see people waving around their hats either, imagine having a bucket full of grain and take it with you in the arena. You show them the bucket and they are like "oh whats in there". I'm not saying take a bucket in there but thats what I see when people use their hats, the horse gets curious and wants to know whats inside. Thats the way I see it.

I also feel like their has to be a better way to show these minis in halter. No you can't take a whip in there, but I don't see why you can't. I just think it would help to get their attention. No one should ever use a whip so harshly to make a horse bescared of it. You use one to get their attention on you, or move off from pressure, not too make them scarred of the whip and you. I can take a whip out there and try it out on Red and very rarely have I used a whip on him and he will stand pretty, alert, and stretched out to smell the whip. I guarantee you that would be the action I will get.

When it comes to showing in halter the problem is the majority of the horses just get bored with it. You can't show them constantly at it, they need to do something else. You do have your "halter horses" that know their job and they will do it and show all day. And you have your horses where you can tell they are scared to death at the end of the lead, they are all tensed up and the handler doesn't have to do anything. Unfortuantly I have seen judges like that pose.

 

[nbark]

I have to agree with the big horse person Riverdance. I came from a big horse background and was floored to see people enter the ring in loafers. Then I was told that they do not allow blue jeans, something that most horse breeds allow. They wore nothing on their heads and the moves they had made them look like they were trying out for the lead part in The Karate Kid. I think you are right, until the minis start showing like horses, they will be treated otherwise. This is only my opinion, so don't linch me, (hope I spelled that right).

 

[Reble]

I guess it is up to the Judges and what they prefer to see.

 

[Carolyn R]

With that said, it is not a trick, or something people are trying to "sneak " in to have an advantage. It is allowed by one and all. Weather it be a hat, a cat toy or a tissue or a handkerchief, if we look silly,so be it, at least we are all looking silly as a group

No one is talking about sneaking anything in, as it seems one can use or do just about anything to get the horse to show, but, perhaps a few more hours of training may be all one needs. (believe me, I should spend more time training my horses to stand and bait for the peppermint too)

But, how many horses do you see in the ring lipping and mouthing for the food, that does not present a very pretty picture either.

I guess the bottom of my post was missed, which said if it can be pulled off with class, it doesn't bother me.

My point, there is not any sneaking,I KNOW THAT. If it isn't against the rules, then to each thier own, everyone is intitled to do what they think works for them. Even a well trained horse can be distracted or not focused, if it takes a little more than normal to keep that focus, especially with an inexperienced horse, which regardless of training, may be unpredictable their first few shows, so be it.

 

[My-Lil-Pony]

I think handlers would look pretty silly carrying a whip or crop out there with these tiny horses. I do not show halter much but why is there such concern with showing like big horse breeds? Minis are very different the handlers in many instances weigh as much as or more then the tiny horses why would you expect them to show like 16 hand animals?

 

[Riverdance]

I think handlers would look pretty silly carrying a whip or crop out there with these tiny horses. I do not show halter much but why is there such concern with showing like big horse breeds? Minis are very different the handlers in many instances weigh as much as or more then the tiny horses why would you expect them to show like 16 hand animals?

Yes they are not big horses, but they are horses. Right now we are showing them like dogs, we bait dogs with food (usually liver) to get their attention for the judge. Just as we are baiting the Minis with food.

Are we showing horses or dogs?

I too use food, but kind of feel there is a better way, especially at the end of a show day with my pockets full of grass grain and whatever.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I think handlers would look pretty silly carrying a whip or crop out there with these tiny horses. I do not show halter much but why is there such concern with showing like big horse breeds? Minis are very different the handlers in many instances weigh as much as or more then the tiny horses why would you expect them to show like 16 hand animals?

I feel silly now jumping up and down, moving around, using food for their attention. We aren't wanting to use whips too keep them in line, its like a tool, its too get their attention, but not to use it to smack them with it.

Have you watched dog shows? Just like what Riverdance is saying we are showing them like dogs.

 

[MinisOutWest]

Since I come from Quarter Horses, You WILL NEVER EVER catch me in the arena with out a hat, unless it is in a hunter class with 110 degrees outside in an outdoor arena. I think with the western show outfits I wear it puts a polished touch on an outfit, but you need a professionally blocked hat too, a cutter crease preferred, very crisp sharp look. I wore mine the entire show at the Fort Worth Stock Show this past weekend.

 

[Amy]

I don't see anything wrong with it.

Taking a hat & waving it in in front of a horse is no different than those clicking things that drive me nuts when the guy next to my horseisi doing it. OR pulling grass out of your pocket.

I think we are soo busy looking for "something" wrong - we are losing a lot of the enjoyment.

I cannot imagine anyone putting horse "heat" in their hats that go on thier heads. GIve it up already !!

And yes, I have worn a "cowgirl" hat into the arena -- and guess what -- I have even waved it at my horse -- as well as some of my fancier hats.

Maybe you should try it. LOL

Seems harmless to me -- but maybe I don't have a devious enough mind.

 

[icspots]

Honestly I think this thing has been beat to death! When I wore my hat I didn't even have to take it off my head, horses can't see that well, and I think my boy thought some horrible black creature was attacking my head.....sure did keep his attention though!

If you want to talk about what looks ridiculous in the ring, it is over camped horses, with their necks pulled out in an unattractive manner, and the handler running back to mash on their croup every few seconds. If you really watch, you will rarely ever see the trainers take their hats off, it is simply part of their look, you also don't see them mashing on croups. Do you think the judge can't see that, and doesn't know that the horse doesn't have the tabletop topline? The trainers take in horses without level toplines and show them for what they are and win. No conspiracies, and if you don't want to show your horse like a dog, then don't, it is that simple!

 

[Riverdance]

Maybe you should try it. LOL
Seems harmless to me -- but maybe I don't have a devious enough mind

Why do people always have to see the negativenes in any post? It is just a question that was asked by a big horse person and she did not set out to point fingers at anyone, but to ask why we show our smaller horses with all of these gimmicks rather than take the time to properly train our horses. Why we do not strive to look and act more professional? More like the large horse exhibitors.

Simple question, not with any devious thoughts or negative feelings.

Lets face facts, stamping ones feet, pulling objects out of pockets, clicking clickers, shaking Tic Tac boxes, taking hats off of heads to put infront of ones horse. All of these things can be disruptive to other exhibitors horses. and, before you continue to be negative, I too have done many of these things to get my horses attention, and she is right. It is unprofessional looking and disruptive to other exhibitors.

 

[mininik]

I can't believe what I'm reading from some of you people, since this is what I'll be wearing the next time I show a Miniature:

I've also been working on my handling skills with this guy:



I hope no one who has to show around me or their horses mind...

"Are we showing horses or dogs?" Riverdance -

I've been asking this for YEARS! I must say however, that not only have I seen dog handlers use food in the conformation ring, but also some props, too, such as small toys. Of course, most dogs can be trained using positive methods to focus happily for a looong time for a bit of their favorite food or a moment with their favorite toy. The other difference between your dogs, I mean Miniature Horses, and those Ay-rabs most handlers try so hard to imitate in Halter class is that Arabians are not asked to show FOREVER, like Miniature Horses and dogs are. There's no need for smelly hats, or noise makers, or mare p*ss, or candy, or pole dancing moves when you only have to present your horse for a few moments at a time, with every judge watching, instead of over 10-30 minutes or more, where you are constantly trying to key your horse up, or trying to let him relax as the judges mill about. It's not only a silly format for horses that are trying so hard to be shown "like Arabs" when they aren't, often leading to early burn out (the road to which leads to handlers trying ever goofier stunts to get their horses' attention), but it's also boring as sin for most spectators.