Riverdance
Well-Known Member
I can't believe what I'm reading from some of you people, since this is what I'll be wearing the next time I show a Miniature:
I've also been working on my handling skills with this guy:
Cowboy Hats
- Thread starter Riverdance
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Reble
Well-Known Member
I guess this topic is not serious either, sorry but tired of these topics.
So I will move on...
So I will move on...
Riverdance
Well-Known Member
I guess this topic is not serious either, sorry but tired of these topics.So I will move on...
When things get a little hot and heavy, sometimes a little humor will calm things down.
Still a serious topic.
Unfortunately, Reble, I couldn't have been more serious. At this point, I can do little more than laugh at how silly Miniature Horse Halter classes look and how ultimately boring they are to watch (after I've had some laughs at the "smooth" moves, goofy attire, and creative baiting), and that's after many years of my own participation. If you take a step back and really look at it, when comparing it to the way other breeds and species are shown, the usual presentation is really quite absurd.
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Amy, I agree.........This is funny, to be honest.
My little girl wore a "cowboy hat" in the arena when she first showed and USED it! (And then our little weanling colt fell asleep during the class!)
Frankly, I find all the NOISE MAKERS that people use more irritating than a Cowboy Hat. The horses probably feel the same way! LOL!
Charlotte
Well-Known Member
ok, Don't you think the bottom line is...... We aren't showing Arabians or Morgans, or quarterhrses or German Shepherds, or Poodles.......We are showing American Miniature Horses. We do it our way.
Charlotte
tagalong
Well-Known Member
Hmmm... but I did see a certain mini trainer giving a halter clinic - and she told those in attendance that your horse should fear you to show at its best. No, she was not kidding.
Wow.
Charlotte - the reason might be that they see the whip as a cue to perform a certain behaviour - and no fear is involved. Wow. Talk about jumping to conclusions.
In fact - I find what you said to be a bit insulting. Why? Because when I worked at a big Arabian farm I was the one who trained the youngsters to set up for halter. The well-known trainer who showed them for us demonstrated the way he wanted it done... and it was NOT by fear. EVER.
First, I taught them to stand up the right way... carrying the whip but not using it. Then to show - and get that hooky stretch and tighter topline you used the whip to gently stroke horizontally across the front of their neck - back and forth, back and forth. This made them tighten up the muscles a bit and slowly bring their heads up and back a little - not in alarm, just in response to that feeling... as they did that, you turned the whip away from them - the handle pointing towards their noses - and pulled it back towards you. The horse's natural reaction was to break over and stretch to follow the handle out... then you rewarded them with a yessssss! and a peppermint or whatever. In time, simply turning the handle of the whip to them would cue them to focus on it and stretch to follow it - no gymnastics involved. The whip was a GOOD thing.
Please tell me where the fear is involved in that. Of course some trainers used fear - a certain guy from the Midwest *cough* was well known for that - and years ago I watched him show a stunning mare who was quite obviously terrified of him - and kept snapping her front legs off the ground to keep him from coming near them with the whip, as he obviously must have done at home - but not in the ring.
But back to the mini world... one handler/trainer used to wear very tight leather pants in the ring - and had adopted a sort of forward lunge with one leg behind and the the other one bent at the knee (think fencing) as part of her halter technique... kind of like the person on the left here...
We always watched with baited breath - sure that this time she was going to split those pants. But they always held up - anothe crisis averted! And she always did very well with her horses...
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Charlotte
Well-Known Member
How fortunate you were to have a mentor whose methods were kind.
Now, can anyone tell me where to get one of those GORGEOUS hats!?!
Charlotte
ok, Don't you think the bottom line is...... We aren't showing Arabians or Morgans, or quarterhrses or German Shepherds, or Poodles.......We are showing American Miniature Horses. We do it our way.Long Live Little Horses!
Charlotte
Absolutely!!!
Minimor
Well-Known Member
I'd rather see cowboy hats than have to listen to a few handlers shaking a bottle of tictacs or whatever other noisemaker they might have come up with. No unfair advantage to cowboy hats as far as I can figure. Will I be wearing one? NO! I loathe wearing a hat & won't do it if the rules don't say I have to.
When we were in North Dakota there was a fellow that showed Arabs there; when he was showing a horse for the judge he'd bend right over backward, and as his upper body bent backward his horse's head would follow right along--it worked on every one of the horses he showed--quite impressive how he would get them to stretch their necks out to follow his movement! I suppose it could have been said that he had an unfair advantage, since many people cannot bend backwards like this...but I don't recall ever hearing anyone complain.
I've been to an Arab show where more than one handler was waving their whip so wildly that they let go of it & the whip when flying across the arena....and the horses were standing there, bored, completely ignoring the wildly waving whips...
And then there was the QH show I attended and people were walking around their horses, placing each leg just so, then they'd come around to the horse's head, pull out a comb and start combing the mane and forelock...until the horse moved a leg, then they'd have to walk back to reposition the leg...just the goofiest thing I'd seen, since we didn't do that sort of stuff when showing Morgans...
So I'd have to say that there are some strange things to be seen in pretty much every breed ring...not just Minis.
edited to add: OMG, mininik, I want one of those hats too!! It would be just PERFECT in the show ring...different feathers could have different scents...
Guess it depends on the breed; when we were showing Morgans ('80s, early '90s) it was perfectly acceptable and quite common to see in hand exhibitors wearing running shoes, short sleeved shirts and no hats. I don't know if that's it's the same now or if attire trends have changed, I haven't been keeping up with the Morgan show scene for a few years now. I show my Minis pretty much the same way I did my Morgans, except I don't carry a whip of course. With the Morgans I did carry a whip when showing in hand, and would "bait" them a little by picking up a bit of arena dirt (or grass if it was a grass ring) and trickling it in front of them--they knew that if they showed well they'd get treats as soon as we got back to the barn! With the Minis I carry a "bait pack" of oats in my pocket--and so I don't have to trickle arena dirt from my fingers--it's rare that I actually feed them anything in the ring, though if it's a bigger class I might feed a few kernals of oats from time to time just to keep their interest. I do refuse to do the wild gyrations that some handlers go through in the ring--that just looks too silly. I do use a little knee bending technique though that gets the horses to arch their necks a little extra.
When we were in North Dakota there was a fellow that showed Arabs there; when he was showing a horse for the judge he'd bend right over backward, and as his upper body bent backward his horse's head would follow right along--it worked on every one of the horses he showed--quite impressive how he would get them to stretch their necks out to follow his movement! I suppose it could have been said that he had an unfair advantage, since many people cannot bend backwards like this...but I don't recall ever hearing anyone complain.
I've been to an Arab show where more than one handler was waving their whip so wildly that they let go of it & the whip when flying across the arena....and the horses were standing there, bored, completely ignoring the wildly waving whips...
And then there was the QH show I attended and people were walking around their horses, placing each leg just so, then they'd come around to the horse's head, pull out a comb and start combing the mane and forelock...until the horse moved a leg, then they'd have to walk back to reposition the leg...just the goofiest thing I'd seen, since we didn't do that sort of stuff when showing Morgans...
So I'd have to say that there are some strange things to be seen in pretty much every breed ring...not just Minis.
edited to add: OMG, mininik, I want one of those hats too!! It would be just PERFECT in the show ring...different feathers could have different scents...
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wildhorses
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I don't really care what the exhibitor wears into the show ring...I am not there to look at their attire, I am there to look at the horses. Not every horse responds the same, not every horse has the same attention span...and when you are in those classes of 80 horses at Nationals, sometimes it takes a little something extra to get that horses attention when he's been standing still for 30 minutes...You try it once....go stand in the corner and stare at the wall for 30 minutes and see how long it takes you to become bored and uninterested.
Wear a cowboy hat, wear a helmet, wear a bikini, doesn't matter to me...soak your coat in horse pee, carry a live racoon with you, bring a tic tac factory, doesn't matter to me. That is why it is a competition. Keeps life interesting. The better horse will usually prevail Naturally, without extra enhancement.
One last thing...If you want to show Arabians, go show Arabians. If you want to show Quarter Horses, go show Quarter Horses. If you want to show Morgans, go show Morgans. Why does our industry have to mimic others? Because the Arabs do it that way, then we have to do it that way...NO! We will not be recognized as a true breed until we break these old habits, and start doing it "OUR" way, not the way that we think we have to do it...."Do as the Jone's" should be a statement of the past.
Again I think this is another thread that got taken out of context and exagerated from it's original intent. Seems to happen too much here anymore.
To answer the original question, No I don't think it's an unfair advantage. I think there are far many other things that are done in the show industry that we should focus our energy on. Only an unfair advantage if I can't walk into the ring and do the same thing.
Wear a cowboy hat, wear a helmet, wear a bikini, doesn't matter to me...soak your coat in horse pee, carry a live racoon with you, bring a tic tac factory, doesn't matter to me. That is why it is a competition. Keeps life interesting. The better horse will usually prevail Naturally, without extra enhancement.
One last thing...If you want to show Arabians, go show Arabians. If you want to show Quarter Horses, go show Quarter Horses. If you want to show Morgans, go show Morgans. Why does our industry have to mimic others? Because the Arabs do it that way, then we have to do it that way...NO! We will not be recognized as a true breed until we break these old habits, and start doing it "OUR" way, not the way that we think we have to do it...."Do as the Jone's" should be a statement of the past.
Again I think this is another thread that got taken out of context and exagerated from it's original intent. Seems to happen too much here anymore.
To answer the original question, No I don't think it's an unfair advantage. I think there are far many other things that are done in the show industry that we should focus our energy on. Only an unfair advantage if I can't walk into the ring and do the same thing.
i also find it rather offensive that because one uses a whip it MUST be fear training. that infact is NOT true. Just like with EVERYTHING you are going to have your bad apples that train using abuse and fear HOWEVER I've shown arabians and i do not use my whip as a fear tool. Yes sometimes a shake of the whip when you lose their attention because the sound of it will make them look and perk ears but never hit with it. then as others have described i use the handle end of my whip to focus their attention on. I've often found since arabians are much taller than I am that if i just lean back as they are reaching out works the best (For me). they are trained using bait that when they put their head and neck in the correct spot they get a treat... peppermints often work great. One problem i have personally found with the mini world is that many people NEVER had any big horse experience or show experience before getting into mini's.. therefore much of it is just "winging" it. They also do not understand how many things TRULY work just assume because a person has a whip in their hand it MUST be used on the horse as an abusive tool and not as a true "tool" that is not used for beating. Often riders/drivers (myself included) always carry a whip. I may not ever need it..but it's there if i need to reinforce my leg. much better than kicking the snot out of the horse to get it to move forward ect.. a quick tap is all you need and voila.. horse is more responsive and ready to move off the leg better next time you ask.
tagalong
Well-Known Member
Very true, boinky. I confess - the whip as abuse comment is still stinging me a bit - and the way it was declared to be a fact.
Many threads wander a bit... especially after 5 pages or so. That is true of every forum I have ever belonged to - on a wide variety of topics. I guess the little sidetracks do not bother me as I can simply scroll past them if I do not want to read them... and it has always been that way. Some things stay strictly on topic - some don't.
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SaddleTrail
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I can't believe what I'm reading from some of you people, since this is what I'll be wearing the next time I show a Miniature:
I've also been working on my handling skills with this guy:
I love the hat!! The whole outfit is great and you are gorgeous!
SaddleTrail
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I would like to add, besides that beautiful hat.
I do not show minis or biggies, although when I was young was allowed the privilege of showing a Arabian stud Ysab. I also owned with my parents a pet store where we sold, all kinds of show gimmicks, clickers, baiters etc.
So what I have to say is coming from what I have read, seen on videos and my own personal experience.
I happen to love hats of kind, big, small, funky, cute, elegant etc. I don't feel that it is unfair to use a hat in the show ring, but personally would rather see them stay on the handlers head and not be used for anything but looks and shade. A Western Cowboy hat is one of these most attractive hats out there. *Aretha Franklins hat was incredible*
I do not like when I see a person in the show ring, waving, clicking, moving all over, making noise, or simply doing what they think should be done to show the horse to the best of its ability. I honestly feel that a horse should be trained to set up with words, hand cues, lead touches etc, and although I don't care for tools being used, I do feel a crop when used properly should be allowed. Using the crop would show how a animal is trained, fear or training when touched if that makes sense?
To many times at dog and cat shows my family went to, you see all this food, clickers, rattlers etc being used and to me it draws away from the beauty of the animal. Standing for so long is very hard to do and the horse should be trained to do so if at all possible.
Now again, I havent been there but this is from a outsider and I hope a non biased non showing mini horse lover's words help ~S~
If yall feel like flaming me, thats alright as well, I have the shoulders of a S.O.B. (Salty Old Broad)
I do not show minis or biggies, although when I was young was allowed the privilege of showing a Arabian stud Ysab. I also owned with my parents a pet store where we sold, all kinds of show gimmicks, clickers, baiters etc.
So what I have to say is coming from what I have read, seen on videos and my own personal experience.
I happen to love hats of kind, big, small, funky, cute, elegant etc. I don't feel that it is unfair to use a hat in the show ring, but personally would rather see them stay on the handlers head and not be used for anything but looks and shade. A Western Cowboy hat is one of these most attractive hats out there. *Aretha Franklins hat was incredible*
I do not like when I see a person in the show ring, waving, clicking, moving all over, making noise, or simply doing what they think should be done to show the horse to the best of its ability. I honestly feel that a horse should be trained to set up with words, hand cues, lead touches etc, and although I don't care for tools being used, I do feel a crop when used properly should be allowed. Using the crop would show how a animal is trained, fear or training when touched if that makes sense?
To many times at dog and cat shows my family went to, you see all this food, clickers, rattlers etc being used and to me it draws away from the beauty of the animal. Standing for so long is very hard to do and the horse should be trained to do so if at all possible.
Now again, I havent been there but this is from a outsider and I hope a non biased non showing mini horse lover's words help ~S~
If yall feel like flaming me, thats alright as well, I have the shoulders of a S.O.B. (Salty Old Broad)
Stinging? I am totally speechless!
Yep........!
Mininik......just don't let your horsie eat the feathers!
Riverdance I do know exactly what you are saying. Nothing worse to me than looking out into a SEA of human rear ends sticking up in the air placing feet. YUK! Well, yes there is worse. Looking out and seeing a bunch of horses with their ears flopped out to the side with their neck planked out like serving platters and lips twitching for another little nibble. So many look like they would much rather be in their stalls snoozing or munching hay. Don't quite understand how they think a pony is going to stand out in the ring and "SHOW" the entire length of a class. Even an Arab would eventually check out. Perhaps the way Miniatures are shown should be revamped? I, personally would much rather see each horse go in front of the judge and show like we do with the Arabs. Certainly would make for happy horses.
Threads staying on track?
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Aristocratic Minis
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"To hat or not to hat" doesn't make any difference to me.
Personally, I have enjoyed reading this thread regardless of what direction it has taken.
I find it interesting to have various opinions expressed and different attitudes about showing. That is just healthy competition. I guess that is what makes this such an enjoyable breed. People can express themselves in different ways - and that's all right.
In the show ring, I'd rather watch the horses than all the gyrations of the trainers, but that's just my preference.
Aristocratic Miniatures
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Personally, I have enjoyed reading this thread regardless of what direction it has taken.
I find it interesting to have various opinions expressed and different attitudes about showing. That is just healthy competition. I guess that is what makes this such an enjoyable breed. People can express themselves in different ways - and that's all right.
In the show ring, I'd rather watch the horses than all the gyrations of the trainers, but that's just my preference.
Aristocratic Miniatures
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