Deworming the shetlands question

[amysue]

So...I have about had it up to here with the current stress level in the barn right now (you all cannot see how high I am holding my hand right now, but believe me, it's up there, lol). Between complicated calvings, a neighbor calling animal control on us because she's a moron, a sheep who refuses to stay in the fence, a daredevil bull who loves to climb stuff and jump off (threw himself off the s*** ramp yesterday and cut his leg open), now my two shetland broodmares, Janey and Pokey are dropping weight like crazy. Fecals say there is no parasite load but they sure look it. They get free choice hay and 16% grain 3x day right now. They somehow got lice this spring so...needless to say, they look like absolute crap right now. Their teeth have just been done and were not bad, I do sand purges since they're turned out on sand and I have begun adding oil to the grain because, basically...I'm out of ideas. So, I was thinking, maybe it won't hurt to deworm again anyway, the problem is, they are not cool with us near their faces, shots are okay surprisingly, but it takes like, 3 big guys to get an oral dewormer anywhere bear their faces and usually, they spit most of it out. I have been using the safeguard pellets since they will eat those, but I would love to treat with ivermectin. I dont think its going to happen orally. My question : can topical 1% cattle ivermectin be used on horses? I have heard horror stories about chemical burns and rashes on horses with pour-ons and abscesses and neurological reactions with injectible, but I would like to hear about other's experience, thoughts, suggestions etc. Put a call into the vet who is leary of over treating with clean fecals (totally understandable) but I wonder if just because eggs weren't found, doesn't mean worms are not a problem. I guess more than anything, I'm just curious about the use of liquid ivermectin in ponies. I have also read of people using the injectable orally (wouldn't help me in this case) but really I'm just curious. If I understand it correctly, the pour on is topical use only while the injectable can also be given orally?

 

[Cayuse]

Could they have tapeworm? IIRC those little stinkers rarely show up on a fecal. I went through something similar with my big pony. I had her boarded out and after a few months the weight was dropping fast. We upped the feed etc. ect. After talking with the vet she came to the conclusion it was tapeworms (probably from the barn cat using her stall as a litter box, I did see this happen) and we wormed her specifically for tapes and she improved.

Unfortunately I forget what we used as a wormer. I THINK it was Panacur Power Pack as ivermectin doesn't work on tapes. I know that won't make it any easier to worm them :-( but I thought I would mention my "tapeworm incident" in case it might help.

Hope your stress level lowers. It must be going around, I have had ponies/minis with episode of hives, possible Lyme, and a bout of colic on Friday. Always something.

 

[Minimor]

Do not use the pour on--it can cause problems for horses. I use the liquid (injectible) given orally. Since yours get grain--just mix the liquid into the grain. They will almost certainly eat it--I've never had one turn it down. They get such a little bit (6 cc. is the most I give and that is to my 43 and 44 inch ponies) and it mixes nicely i to pellets. Normally I syringe it into their mouths but I have put it in grain when I had some impossible to catch ones.

 

[paintponylvr]

Well, all I can say is dealing with the lice is miserable. I'm having major issues with it, myself. AND ponies that weren't a problem weight wise BEFORE the lice - are NOW. So I say that yes, lice can make a pony/mini drop weight (tho our vets say "no").

I had someone at the feed store tell me to rub the horse's mane/neck/back/tail head with the paste ivermectin (I generally get it thru Valley Vet or Dover when it's on sale @ $1.99/tube). It DID seem to help with the one I actually did it with - however, she's still not picking up weight well (and I'm pretty sure I OD'd her w/ other chemical first

)...

I am getting different stories from different vets as to when to actually worm again (Ivermectin for the lice). Some say 10 days, others say 14 days. One says every 7 days for a month...

I miss the liquid Ivermectin!! So much easier to give by mouth and absorbs really quick thru the mucous membrane. I have been told that the injectable for cattle can be used as an oral for the horses, but I'm a little leery of that. I would think that you could put Ivermectin liquid on their feed. If you do a Panacur power pack - get the liquid (smells/tastes like bananas or is it Strongid that does that? Been long enough that I can't remember) and again - put it in their feed. Strongid also comes in a liquid. Course it helps bunches if your ponies are used to eating their feed wet - they won't try to eat around the wet parts or dump it out.

 

[chandab]

I miss the ivermectin crumbles they had for awhile, that you could just put in their feed. It was for horses, but didn't stay on the market terribly long.

 

[amysue]

Thank you, everybody for the replies. I'm about at my breaking point. I hate it when my horses don't look/feel good because it makes me feel like I'm not doing enough. The weather here has been miserable, rain every day, so its so muddy, these two mares each probably need 30 pounds on them and they look like crap! Foals look awesome and shiny and are in good weight. The mare's coats are dull and skin looks grimy. I grind flax seed and add to the feed 1x day. Everyone else in the barn looks good, but not these too. They're too wild to bathe, am seriously contemplating dousing them with that green clean during tonight's rain storm. The only thing that cleared up the lice was the co-ral dairy livestock dust, it took me three different dusts to find one that killed the lil beggers. I dusted EVERYWHERE on their bodies, including dusting then washing blankets and halters and dusted the stalls, paddocks and washed all grooming tools, repeated in 2 weeks per instructions and they came back twice, finally subsided with onset of warm weather. So, of course they'll ge back next winter. Apparently they were biting lice not sucking, so ivermectin was not helpful. The dairy dust says it can be used on horses, but its application is limited, and over applying made them have to pee constantly. I know they're probably skinny because they're nursing foals, at that age where they dont bounce right back, but it just fell off in 3 weeks, despite having good free choice hay, 3 grain meals with a 32% fat supplement added a day, teeth are good, lice are gone, so I'm thinking worms. I have injectable 1% ivermectin, so I will dose them both tomorrow. I will try squirting in into the grain. If they really wont eat it, I will try something else. I have read somewhere that vitamin deficiency can lead to the poor appearance and even susceptibility to lice and worm infestation. I have dosed poor keepers with vit B before to boost appetite, as we do in calves, I believe it's K deficiency that goes with lice. Will have to ask the vet. Maybe that will help Paula's get better? They all have me wanting to rip my hair out!

 

[Ryan Johnson]

Sorry you have been going through this Amysue. Id start pulling my hair out having to deal with the moron neighbor alone. . I agree with giving them a dose of ivermectin it certainly wont hurt. You would be surprised how much goodness lice can bite and suck out of a horse and the fact that they both have foals will also be taking that little extra out of them too.

Fingers crossed that they dont return next year, I wonder if it wouldn't hurt dusting again right before winter returns to try and deter them ? Or maybe pop a few in a jar and send them next door to your neighbor

 

[chandab]

Do your mares like bread? What about dewormer paste sandwiches? Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Have you done the 5 day fenbendazole protocol for encysted.

 

[amysue]

Like the sandwich idea, never fed them bread before, these two wont take treats from our hands but we get day old bread for the cows once a week as a treat, so I wilk throw them each a piece and see if they eat it, then maybe dribble the liquid wormer on it. I have treated them with the safe guard fenbendazole pellets for a week about a month ago and their condition has not improved, it has been forever sonce they had ivermectin, so that's why I want to try it.

 

[Miniv]

We've been using the liquid injectable cattle ivermectin for our horses for years....Just make sure it's the PLAIN type without the additive for cattle.

We either squirt it into their mouths (1cc per 100 lbs) followed by a handful of grain because it's very bitter tasting.......OR, we put into a dish of pelleted grain.

So, I'm basically DITTO-ing Minimor's post above.....

Lice are parasites and could be sucking the blood (and weight) off your kids. Ivermectin does kill certain kinds of lice, but not all.