Do you do Line or In breeding?

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Reble

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Just wondering after all the talk about conformation etc.

Just wondering who here does line or In breeding?

We did in our Paso Finos to get the natural gait.

I have been thinking about it for down the road, depending on my stallions off spring.

Father and daughter?

Anyone?
 
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I plan to one day cross two paternal siblings I own (DunIT x Double), and maybe in time others as well. We just had a filly born who is out of a double buckeroo bred stallion and a buckeroo mare, so that's also line breeding... similar bred filly from last year as well. One of my nicest mares (inside and out... "Lou") is by two paternal siblings.
 
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Father to daughter is inbreeding, line breeding is common ancestors.

I did a 1/2 brother to 1/2 sister once and got a beautiful filly who is now 5 years old: Riverdance's Wind Chimes. She gave me her first foal last year and he is a beautiful palomino colt.

I also did a line breeding with a stallion whos dam is a 1/2 sister to the mare I bred him to, got an exquisit bay filly who will be shown this year: Riverdances Annie Get Your Gun. She was so fine I did the breeding again for this year.

I plan on some more in the future, but one needs to be carefull as the good will come out as well as the bad.
 
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Father to daughter is inbreeding, line breeding is cousins.
I did a 1/2 brother to 1/2 sister once and got a beautiful filly who is now 5 years old: Riverdance's Wind Chimes. She gave me her first foal last year and he ia a beautiful palomino colt.

I also did a line breeding with a stallion whos dam is a 1/2 sister to the mare I bred him to, got an exquisit bay filly who will be shown this year: Riverdances Annie Get Your Gun. She was so fine I dd the breeding again for this year.

I plan on some more in the future, but one needs to be carefull as the good points will come out as well as the bad points. n

thanks riverdance I should change it to line or in breeding topic
 
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I have seen it work well for some and horrific for others.

Its my personal belief not to breed that closely.

But for people that it works for it has produced amazing horses.

Too much in breeding or line breeding though does lead to horrible things such as HYPP and HERDA in quarter horses. We really need to watch what we are doing with the miniatures as we dont want to create something like that.
 
I was looking at a stud to buy that was "Gold Melody Boy" in the top side there was a 1/2 sibling and the generation before that was I think it was a mother son. Gold Melody Boy also appeared on the bottom side once. He was a very nice 30.5" boy. I may still buy him. What I was tought in my animal classes was "Father to daughter, Mother to son, But brother and sister should never be done". However, sometimes a brother sister doesn't do any harm from what I have seen.
 
What I was tought in my animal classes was "Father to daughter, Mother to son, But brother and sister should never be done". However, sometimes a brother sister doesn't do any harm from what I ha :shockedve seen.
Actually, that is all in breeding and really should not be done too often. Line breeding is the way to perfect the things that you want in your line. (thus called line breeding) 1/2 brother to 1/2 sister is also OK to a point, and only if they do not share the same faults. But, if you should have a 1/2 brother who has a good hip, nice body pretty head, but perhaps needs more neck and the 1/2 sister, she may have a long slim neck pretty head, nice body, but needs a better hip, that would be the way to go. In other words, if both have some of the same faults, do not breed them. Typically full brother and sister will focus more on all of the bad points that they and perhaps their parents may have.

When line breeding one can perhaps, focus on the pretty head and long slim neck. For instance, I have a stallion who is out of a Santana daughter (all of my Santana daughters were hand picked for long slim necks and pretty heads), she needed a better hip and was bred to a stallion who had one, but that stallion did not have that pretty a head and had a shorter thicker neck, also I needed more up headedness. The resutling foal, my stallion, has a topline and hip to die for!! And, he has the pretty head of his dam, is up headed, but more his sires shorter thicker neck. So, I bred him to another Santana daughter that I have, focusing on the pretty head and long slim neck. The resulting foal, has a beautiful head, long slim neck and the evel topline and huge hip that her sire has. Succes!! I have bred him back to that mare as well as to another Santana daughter that I have, plus a Windchaser daughter (who is a Santana son), again, more line breeding and focusing on the pretty heads and long slim necks.

Now sometimes it will work and sometimes I will still get the short thicker neck, but I am going in the direction of pretty heads and long slim necks, with a nice square body, lots of leg under them, flat top line, high tail set and huge hip. (They need to look like perfect little full size horses) This filly that I got from the first breeding, she will eventually be bred to Windchaser to cement the pretty heads and long slim neck.

I learned all of this line breeding from over 40 years of breeding dogs. Over 30 with Tibetan Terriers. I have had some of the top dogs in the country in the past and many of the Tibetans winning out there today have my dogs in their pedigrees.

In breeding is really not the way to go, as there are too many faults that will be enphasized. But good line breeding should get you where you want to go (BUT, ONE MUST KNOW WHAT ONE IS LOOKING AT AS FAR AS CONFORMATION AND WHERE ONE WANTS TO GO BEFORE TRYING LINE BREEDING Just breeding pedigree to pedigree will get you no where.

The only down side is that it takes so many years to do it in horses, where dogs have litters and are ready to breed 2 years after they are born.
 
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Nope, I have enough Redneck neighbors!
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If the breeding is successful it is called linebreeding. If it isn't successful it is called inbreeding.
 
If the breeding is successful it is called linebreeding. If it isn't successful it is called inbreeding.

Sorry, but in breeding is when one breeds a full brother to full sister, Mother to son, father to daughter, even 1/2 brother to 1/2 sister. Regardless of whether the breeding works or not. Line breeding is where you breed common ancestors. These can sometimes produce beautiful horses and sometimes not.

In all states, one can not marry their full or 1/2 sibling or their mother or father. But, in some states one can marry their cousins. Beacuse marrying their cousin is not considered in breeding, just line breeding.
 
I have a Boones Little Andy grandson and then a Boones Little Andy grandaughter. Not related in any other way, still waiting to see how it turns out.
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Didn't severe inbreeding many years ago by old time breeders give us our dwarfism problems in the breed?It is my understanding that many farms were breeding siblings and parents to offspring just because they were short and in hopes of getting shorter horses without looking at the whole picture. I personally visited Bond and Komoko Farms in the 1980s and saw dwarves myself.IMO it takes someone who reaaly knows what they are doing at this to be successful.These opinions are my own and I'm sure many will disagree.Thank goodness there are many breeders out there who seem to be breeding good horses and are constantly trying to breed even better than what they have.
 
Although breeding a lets say ___ to his ___ daughter, the resulting foal hardly comes out resembling that said horse you were line breeding for, i think the changes are about the same as breeding that horse to a horse of different pedigree. It does make for an awesome power packed pedigree in some cases, i had a double bred (actually, line bred) BTU stallion but he did not look at all like BTU, had some of his characteristics for sure and the "look" that i feel is really passed down that line, but it was not BTU
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There is a filly that I was interested in purchasing. She is the result of breeding a daughter back to her own father, and along came this gorgeous filly.

Now I dont really like breeding that close, BUT since my stock doesnt share ANY of her bloodlines I would buy her to breed in the future.

You just have to really know what youre doing when you breed that close. I personally wouldnt risk it because I dont have enough experience.
 
For those of you who are a bit sqeamish about the breeding of closely related horses, I was doing a little research the other night on this topic and stumbled across an article written by a guy I actually know (he is a judge) where he uses a human parallel. Don't want to step on anybodys beliefs here, but he uses both Adam and Eve and Noah's family as examples of "selective breeding" in humans. www.genecarr.com , he also has some interesting color studies on appaloosas.

I have bred father/daughter and paternal brother/paternal sister mixes, and frankly have gotten some of my best horses, I'm not real comfortable going for 3 or four crosses (don't think I'm ready for the DOWNSIDE of that!) but if you pick only the best specimans without common faults, you really do get an awesome results. I don't know how to get pics on here yet, or I'd post one of my little "experiments", he'll be in the ring next year in the 28" and under yearling stallions. Very refined and PROPORTIONATE, in other words, he's built like a bigger one! All of the articles I read pretty much say the same thing, linebreeding will get you there eventually, but inbreeding will get you there faster!
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Very often horses that are linebred are the best producing horses. In Morgans, the top farms did a lot of linebreeding and the best producing horses were heavely linebred.

If you constantly outcross, it is a crap shoot as to what one is going to get. If you linebreed, you have a much better idea of the outcome, plus can controll some hereditary problems and the basic look of ones horses. You have to know your lines and what is in them, you also have to know what you are doing. Just breeding, as I said before, to pedigree is not going to get you there. You have to know the faults of your horses as well as the good points and breed accordingly.

Again, in dogs one has a certain look or line in ones breeding program. I have bred my lines for over 30 years and I have some of the healthiest dogs out there today. My dogs have a very consistant look and are known for their coats, motion and all around good looks and health. They are free of many of the "hereditary" problems many of the Tibetan Terrier breeders have created today by their constant outcrossing.

My filly: Riverdance's Annie Get Your Gun is a line bred filly. She will be out in the show ring this year. I did not take many pictures of her as she was not for sale.

These were taken when she was only a couple of days old and not yet unfolded.

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And again about a month or so later after being clipped.

Ea-1.jpg
 
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Excellent post. While I have not bred horses (yet) I have been breeding dogs for over 25 yrs. I also have had some of the top Italian Greyhounds in the county. Many who have gone on to be top producers themselves. I have always linebred with an occasional outcross.

And like you said when you outcross you never know what you may bring in.

When I do start breeding horses I plan to use the same. Of course right now with the horses it is still a learning curve as to what lines produce what traits.

Folks ALL domestic breeds were created by originally inbreeding and line breeding. There is no other way to "fix" traits.

Yes done wrong it can be a nightmare. You have to be aware of the "bad" genes/traits as well as the good.

The only reason you get problems with inbreeding/linebreeding is when you double or triple ect on the bad. You not only breed on "paper" ( pedigree) but also you have to breed visually ( traits)

What I was tought in my animal classes was "Father to daughter, Mother to son, But brother and sister should never be done". However, sometimes a brother sister doesn't do any harm from what I ha :shockedve seen.
Actually, that is all in breeding and really should not be done too often. Line breeding is the way to perfect the things that you want in your line. (thus called line breeding) 1/2 brother to 1/2 sister is also OK to a point, and only if they do not share the same faults. But, if you should have a 1/2 brother who has a good hip, nice body pretty head, but perhaps needs more neck and the 1/2 sister, she may have a long slim neck pretty head, nice body, but needs a better hip, that would be the way to go. In other words, if both have some of the same faults, do not breed them. Typically full brother and sister will focus more on all of the bad points that they and perhaps their parents may have.

When line breeding one can perhaps, focus on the pretty head and long slim neck. For instance, I have a stallion who is out of a Santana daughter (all of my Santana daughters were hand picked for long slim necks and pretty heads), she needed a better hip and was bred to a stallion who had one, but that stallion did not have that pretty a head and had a shorter thicker neck, also I needed more up headedness. The resutling foal, my stallion, has a topline and hip to die for!! And, he has the pretty head of his dam, is up headed, but more his sires shorter thicker neck. So, I bred him to another Santana daughter that I have, focusing on the pretty head and long slim neck. The resulting foal, has a beautiful head, long slim neck and the evel topline and huge hip that her sire has. Succes!! I have bred him back to that mare as well as to another Santana daughter that I have, plus a Windchaser daughter (who is a Santana son), again, more line breeding and focusing on the pretty heads and long slim necks.

Now sometimes it will work and sometimes I will still get the short thicker neck, but I am going in the direction of pretty heads and long slim necks, with a nice square body, lots of leg under them, flat top line, high tail set and huge hip. (They need to look like perfect little full size horses) This filly that I got from the first breeding, she will eventually be bred to Windchaser to cement the pretty heads and long slim neck.

I learned all of this line breeding from over 40 years of breeding dogs. Over 30 with Tibetan Terriers. I have had some of the top dogs in the country in the past and many of the Tibetans winning out there today have my dogs in their pedigrees.

In breeding is really not the way to go, as there are too many faults that will be enphasized. But good line breeding should get you where you want to go (BUT, ONE MUST KNOW WHAT ONE IS LOOKING AT AS FAR AS CONFORMATION AND WHERE ONE WANTS TO GO BEFORE TRYING LINE BREEDING Just breeding pedigree to pedigree will get you no where.

The only down side is that it takes so many years to do it in horses, where dogs have litters and are ready to breed 2 years after they are born.
 
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These are my fillies (2008 & 2009) out of parents who are all Buckeroo bred, and my mare that is out of two paternal siblings.

[SIZE=12pt]Whinny For Me's Big City Cover Girl[/SIZE]Little Kings Big City Buck (Buckeroo son) x Erica's Double Dipped (BTU rangddaughter)

Cover%20Girl%201.jpg
Cover-Girl-blur.jpg


[SIZE=12pt]WFM's Echos of Sweet Perfection[/SIZE]

Erica's Echos of My Destiny (grandson of both Buck Echo and Double Destiny) x Erica's Sweet as Sugar (BTU granddaughter)

Perfection--012609-11--FLIP.jpg
Piper--012709--3.jpg


[SIZE=8pt]* pictured as a newborn and 1 day old[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Edgewood Skip To My Lou[/SIZE]

not well known lines, but she is out of two paternal siblings and has been a wonderful mare for us (showed well, drives great, produces show quality foals)

Lou%201.jpg
Lou%202.jpg
 
You should ask Erica, as I know she has one gorgeous line bred horse!!!
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(if im thinking of the right horse
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Riverdance I really like your filly
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