Does this scare anyone else?

[kaykay]

As most of you know big changes are coming in AMHR. Starting in Jan pictures are going to be required of every mini registered and right on the heels of that is DNA.

There are many what I call "pet farms" in my area now and where I used to live in Illinois. They only breed AMHR as the papers were easy to get and they didnt have to DNA and take pics. Now I AM ALL FOR THE CHANGES IN AMHR! So dont misunderstand that part. But imo this is going to cause a huge amount of miniatures to flood the market as these pet farms disperse.

I just have a feeling they wont dna or do pictures and will get out. I have already seen one of these breeders starting to disperse at an auction here as hes already saying hes getting out of miniatures. I feel sure its because of the amhr changes. He has a HUGE herd.

We are all going to have to hang tough while these pet breeders flood the market for the next couple years.

My biggest fear is that CMHR will be flooded with these horses if they cant get them sold at auction.

Do you guys think im wrong?? In the long run AMHR is doing a great thing, but i do think its going to really hurt the market for a couple years

 

[royalview]

I feel that just the typical trend that follows any breed is whats happening to the minis. They got popular, unfortunatly that always causes mass production of those thinking they can make a quick buck. I think we all need to educate those who are interesed in the mini breed. Ive tried to involve many peple at the 4-H and local level even if it just means helping out at our shows and clinics. Lets educate those who might get a mini. It will drop the market for a while but some who get a "cheapy" will eventually wany to get a better one if they get educated and we bring them into our little family of mini enthusiests . Education is always the key to a stronger breed. Im glad that AMHR is doing this, It will weed out those who are not ligit and help us all be better breeders.

 

[midnight star stables]

I wish they would only do the photos, I feel the DNA will push some people over the edge :no:

 

[Cathy_H]

I think this has already been happening anyway since the value of miniature horses have dropped........ There will be more of those farms that registered AMHR let them go yes but I think the market conditions were starting to let it happen anyway......................... It WILL get worse before it gets better but down the road there will be fewer of mass producers still flooding the market..... Problem is what to do with the ones that are & will be let go - a thought that some of us do not care to think of at all.......... As royalview stated above this was bound to happen. I've been saying since the early 90's that over producing was going to hurt the miniatures but there are those who think differently or didn't care.

 

[jdhand]

I think it is also a good idea. There are lots of mini's out there. Breeders need to understand that not all minis are created equally. However if people are going to breed miniatures they need to be responsible and keep up with who is truly bred to who. The pictures and DNA will clean up the registry. I am not so worried about the pet minis flooding the market. Everything runs in cycles. I am curious to see what effect it really will have.

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]I am in agreement that pictures will help and probably DNA also but I know there are people who will buck the system, still falcify papers because they are alredy getting around it with amha....these same people will hoodwink amhr. I think as far as the pet market it wont change that much because there are so many already doing that! As I mentioned in a thread yesterday, I have spoken to someone who is planning on going from registered minis and showing to "investing in unregistered stock to produce a low price pet for that market" she already has a stallion and is selling reg horses to buy a larger number of unregistered mares! I was not happy to hear that to say the least. There are already people breeding and selling poor to mediocre quality horses for below bargain basement prices. I have had a few tire kickers want to buy my horses for a lower price stating that "I can get one for less from so and so" So I tell them , feel free to do that but my price is firm. I put lots of time effort and money into the few horses I have..... I have already 3000 plus in vet bills this year alone and its only MAy! I am conciencious with shots worming coggins, hoof ad teeth care.... That all costs money. You cant raise a mini to the age of one year for 300 dollars.... All my foals have sold before that age but still, I will not give them away and Thank God I have not had to. THese backyard breeders, well actually thats what I am too with only 8 horses.... but the people producing the low end quality but large quantity of horses have been here all along and will cotinue to be. I think it will be more important than ever to attend the shows and clinics, advertise and promote and educate so that the buyers will be willing to spend the money for healthy quality foals.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[Mona]

:aktion033: YAY!!! WOOHOO!!! That is GREAT news for AMHR! It is well past tine they stepped up to the present, to assure a better future! I had not heard of this until your post here. Do you have more details?

Also, kind of off topic, but just thinking...we really need to have one "central" DNA place that we can run one test and use the same results for BOTH AMHA and AMHR where applicable. It would seem a real shame to have to pay for the same DNA twice! And since AMHA has it set up that the results of DNA is theirs, we cannot even use/access that information to use in registering AMHR.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

You know I am not sure it will make a huge difference in the market. Right now the bottom line is good horses are selling at fair prices. I know of horses recently AMHR only or ASPC only selling in the 2500-4500 range wiht no problems and those high dollar horses 8,000 + are still selling as well. Of course gone are the days you could get 5000 for any mini(correct or not) make it loud colored and it became 6500 minimum. NOw I am very glad for that of course and it has been interesting to watch and see who stuck with it and who got out. The same will happen with AMHR however I dont think it will truly affect the market that much as there are already those selling without papers or running thru local auctions pretty cheaply tons of them.

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

I understand the reasoning behind this, of course, but my questioin is this:

If, as you say, the pix & DNA would be required for ALL AMHR miniatures, not just foal registration, would it phase in gradually or only be applied when a horse is transferred to new ownership? Or would we have to do that with ALL our horses ALL at once........a "break the bank" proposition for many folks. Is there talk of a deadline to submit DNA & pix for currently registered horses?

Same question applies to those used for breeding....would it need to be done BEFORE the horse is bred again when new rules have kicked in, or would it be when a foal is registered that its parents have to be DNA'd? Any answers on these?

The requirements (DNA & pix) themselves don't scare me,,..........it's the cost & especially if it's all at once.

 

[kaykay]

it has been in the journal the last two issues i think??? pics definately are required as of jan 1 2007 for any NEW registrations. They are coming up with a way to send in pics if owners want to of previously registered horses. Not sure when dna is kicking in but I believe its 2007 too, but again i think they are going to start with NEW registrations. I cant find my last journal to see what the details were.

hopefully karen will come on and clarify. I thought everyone knew LOL. So NO i am not saying previously registered horses have to do it ONLY new registrations I believe. But dont quote me LOL.

I really think it will have a bigger impact then some of you think. The one herd here i believe is around 100 plus. My thinking is they will get out as they wont mess with the new registration work to register new foals.

that last auction horses WITH papers were selling for 400.00 and less

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

Okay, I'll admit it...........I haven't had time lately :new_shocked: to actually read my Journals! I'll go back & look. Thanks......k

 

[littlearab]

I think photos is a very good idea. It makes IDing a horse much easier. I hate drawing marking, i always send in a photos any way. They might see the color or marking better then me.

But hope that DNA is a while off.

I have purchused horses that I have had to do qiut alot of paperwork to get their papers in order ect.

When I ask the seller why they have not done the paperwork they say it too much monkey bussness.So photos would be more but not much more to do, most would be Ok with that.

But when they start with DNA alot more minitures will go without papers because those people have problems just taking the time to fill out a paper if you ask more they will not do it.

And alot more hosres will go without papers.

And i do not think DNA ing would stop people from cheating who want to cheat. There is always a way around it.

I see the number of miniature going with out their papers a real issue. Asking for DNA will only add to it.

 

[Jill]

Will their be a provision for purchases to "bring the papers up to date" if they buy horses w/ outdated AMHR's that haven't had the DNA / Pictures done?

Really, I'd be all for getting the breeders who don't want to fool with proper paperwork OUT of breeding. I think in the long run, that's better for the horses.

That said, I am TERRIBLE about my AMHA horses. Never had a use for the papers before (since no close enough shows) but of course, I have maintained the papers. I will be transferring everyone I own with AMHA papers really soon now that I will have a use for those papers when I breed the horses.

 

[Tammie-C_Spots]

I'm for pictures and in the end I think DNA will help the breed but I must say I'm tired of dishing out all the $$ I have to just to keep all the registries paperwork up to date!

My guess is that of the Jan 2007 date from then on pictures will be required of new registrations and probably on any transfers and updates to permanent status.

Tammie

 

[Southern_Heart]

:aktion033: YAY!!! WOOHOO!!! That is GREAT news for AMHR! It is well past tine they stepped up to the present, to assure a better future! I had not heard of this until your post here. Do you have more details?

Also, kind of off topic, but just thinking...we really need to have one "central" DNA place that we can run one test and use the same results for BOTH AMHA and AMHR where applicable. It would seem a real shame to have to pay for the same DNA twice! And since AMHA has it set up that the results of DNA is theirs, we cannot even use/access that information to use in registering AMHR.

Mona you took the words right out of my mouth on the DNA. :aktion033:

PS:

AMHA has it set up that the results of DNA is theirs
Gosh! I would think that we paided for the DNA it is ours to send at least a copy to AMHR as everytime we have a horse DNA'ed we get a copy, so why wouldn't AMHR except that copy!

I am not tying to sound cheep

: maybe I am.. :lol: but golly I could buy feed or hay or even show in one class for that price! I think that when you have a DNA its yours to share with what Registery you want. JMO

Joyce

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

well, that's an upsetting thot.........who wants to pay twice for exactly the same test? shouldn't you "own" what you paid for? It's tough enough trying to afford it once, but two times for 2 diff registries? Me thinks this does smell!

 

[Mona]

Well, maybe I am wrong, but I am sure I remember reading somewhere that the results of the DNA testing become the property of AMHA.

 

[Vicky Texas]

I am for it, the pictures will help with IDing the horses. I also think the DNA is

very important. It helps to make the breeders put the correct parents on the

foals. Yes, I know some breeders will still find a way to get around it, how sad.

But hoping it makes more breeders be correct. It can come back to bite the

breeder. Cause once its out they are puttimg the wrong parents down, no one

will want to buy from them.

I think as for the pet horses, if someone is going to buy only a pet, they will

anyways. I would hope this would discourage more people of breeding pet horses.

As for flooding the market, yes it will hurt, anytime a breeder floods the market it

hurts everyone, no matter who it is. But people who want good horses with papers

and spend real money will not buy from them. If they are only looking for a pet,

they will not spend good money on a good horse anyways.

I think this is good for association. I do think that both register's should use the

same DNA. And the same lab.

I do have a question, on the topic of the breeder who has cheated on DNA on a

horse, this is where it will bite them good, they DNA with AMHA, the horse has to be

re-DNA in with AMHR, and it comes back its not out of that parent, look at the mess it

will make. That breeder will have to go back and find the parents and re-DNA, and it

will show up they cheated the system, and bite them good. But who ever owns this

horse now, will also get bitten. So I do think they should DNA the horses, make the

breeders be responsible breeders, make sure they are putting the correct sire and dam

down. Make it so you know that foal you are buying is out of that parent. You spend

a ton of money buying this horse, this conformation, this bloodline and now you will

know you got it.

This is a good thing.

Vicky

 

[littlearab]

Really, I'd be all for getting the breeders who don't want to fool with proper paperwork OUT of breeding. I think in the long run, that's better for the horses.

The point is most will not get OUT of breeding.. they will just bred grade horses.

I do not think in the long run it will be better for the horses. How can that be??

The people who love breeding horses but hate to do the paperwork will keep on breeding just not register them.

How does more unregistered miniatures help the bred in the long run?? How does a very nice horse sold as grade help the horse??

Ok then you have more grade minature horses selling for even less. How does that help you??

I do not think that DNAing is a bad thing just hope it is not just dropped on breeders. Give us time to get our horse done a few at a time. Not have to do whole herds at once.

If they give people a 5 years to get it done no big deal.

: I'm all for it!!

There will be some who do not do it until the last minute

: but thats thier deal. If I have a few years I have no issue with it at all.

Giving time would also lets those who want to sell out to do so and sell them as registered and gives the new owners have time to do it.

If they just say OK but 2007 all horses must be DNAed many will go as grade and that could be a big loss to the bred.

Lots of people with some every good horses will not DNA. Alot of the older breeders will just sell out around here. And if it doen too soon those horses would loss thier papers.

I myself think that would be a great loss.

.

 

[Little Wee Horse Farm]

Think about it.....it really could be a financial burden....for example, if you have 10 AMHR horses & say it costs about $35 to DNA, and IF all had to be done at one time..........that's $350 just to keep horses registered that were ALREADY registered.........again.............a burden to many. What if you have 20 horses? Nightmare! Unless, of course, money is no object. (and it is for most people) I dunno why I keep going back to this topic. :517: Oops...........just had a thot.......what about horses that are deceased but their offspring are out there???