Doing your own vaccines

[Performancemini]

Several horse (big and small) friends have suggested I do my own vaccinations (except for what the vet needs to do). My hesitation is that I feel "guilty" about doing the vet out of his job. Though I know it's a matter of finances-not being cheap or stupid. How do most vets feel about their clients giving their own vaccines?

 

[Sandy B]

I have been doing my own vaccines for 30 years. I use a 20 gauge needle and a 1" or 1.5" needle & a 3cc syringe. Obviously on most minis I do not stick the 1.5" needle all the way in. I used Calvenza flu/rhino this past spring and had reactions of rather large lumps. Personally I vaccinate EWT & WNV 2 times a year and Flu/Rhino 2 times a year (spring & fall) for the horses that stay at home (except on the horses that travel to shows, they get Flu/Rhino every 2-3 months). I have used about every brand of vaccine. Most recently I used the new Recombitek WNV + EWT combo vaccine and did not have one reaction. I used it on weanlings (both mini & AQHA) and aged horses. I also use the Fort Dodge Fluvac Innovator EHV 4/1 and have not had a reaction to it in many years to it. I vaccinate broodmares with all the above vaccines prior to breeding, and again at 30 days prior to foaling, plus the pregnant mares get Pneumabort K + 1b at 5, 7 & 9 months gestation. In years past I tried the Fort Dodge WNV, EWTF vaccine and had several reactions, so I had switched to giving 3 shots- WNV, EWT, F/R. I hated poking the youngsters so much so I am happy that the Recombitek WNV/EWT seems to work well as far as reaction goes. As far as injection sites, I like to use the pectoral muscle if well developed. Otherwise I will use the neck or the muscle on the rump that is next to where the bone of the tail(I am drawing a blank on the name) lays.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Several horse (big and small) friends have suggested I do my own vaccinations (except for what the vet needs to do). My hesitation is that I feel "guilty" about doing the vet out of his job. Though I know it's a matter of finances-not being cheap or stupid. How do most vets feel about their clients giving their own vaccines?

Some vets (like several mentioned here) fully support it and encourage their clients to do their own. Others, however, feel like you don't need their help if you don't have them out for your annual visits. I've known some vets that drop their clients if they do their own vaccines! There are a few reasons for this. 1) Vaccines have a large markup and are very quick and easy to give. A vaccination visit can net hundreds (or thousands, in a larger barn) of dollars in a half hour's work. 2) The vet gets to check up on their clients, see the horses, evaluate feed and condition, and discuss any chronic conditions that may be present. 3) If the vet doesn't feel as though you are an active client, they see no need to jump out of bed at 2am to service an emergency. I've also known people who started doing their own vet work, and when they DID need a vet for a colic or such, everyone they called turned them down, saying they only service their clients after hours, and they should contact their primary vet. Primary vet said "who are you? I haven't been to your barn in years, contact your primary vet". SOL.

I ALWAYS encourage people who want to do their own vaccines to talk to their vet first. Some vets will be very supportive. Some vets know their clients and know its not in their horses' best interest to have their owners vaccinate them. Other vets will want their business and tell them no. Other vets will sell them the vaccines at a discounted rate and not charge for administration, so both parties win. Plus, someone needs to teach the horse owners how to give a safe injection. Where, how to pull back, what to do if blood is hit, how deep, what dose, etc etc etc. Definitely talk to your vet before just jumping in!

 

[Ashley]

The reason I have stopped giving them shots is 2 of them are very old and I dont feel comfortable with their already risky health adding more crap to it. I have a total of 3.

Also several years ago I had horses come down with stuff even after vac for it. When I asked the vet about it and how much they actually work the response was something along the lines of "its a preventative they dont necessarly work but if people want to pay us to do them, then we will".

I havent had a sick horse in about 7 years and at that time what went around was strangles, which the horses were vac and current for.

 

[Charlotte]

Inch and a half needles hunh? Wow. I only used those on my big horses. Here I use 22 gauge 3/4" or at the most 1" needles for vaccines.

I am in central OK. I vaccinate using Prestiege V (eastern & western encephalomyelitis, tetanus, flu, rhino. 3 - 4 weeks later WNV (Recombitec), 3-4 weeks later Rabies. Show horses get a flu/rhino booster during show season.

I never give vaccinations any closer than one week apart due to possible reactions. I have found miniatures to be more reactive to vaccines than my big horses which is understandable considering their very small weight (most of mine are under 200 lbs or just over) yet the adjuvent and preservatives are the same dose as a 1,400lb horse.

I avoid Fort Dodge vaccines if possible.

ANY organism may have a poor immune response to a vaccine... horse, dog, human....for a number of reasons. So vaccines are not 100% protection, but they are better than full blown disease.

I also vaccinate in the butt when the horse is going to have at least 12 hours turn out. Stalled horses are more likely to have local reaction/soreness. Vaccinated horses are monitored closely for 3 days for fever (have had 105+ on rare occasions)

Oops, I'm running late! Off to barn.

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

Some vets (like several mentioned here) fully support it and encourage their clients to do their own. Others, however, feel like you don't need their help if you don't have them out for your annual visits. I've known some vets that drop their clients if they do their own vaccines! There are a few reasons for this. 1) Vaccines have a large markup and are very quick and easy to give. A vaccination visit can net hundreds (or thousands, in a larger barn) of dollars in a half hour's work. 2) The vet gets to check up on their clients, see the horses, evaluate feed and condition, and discuss any chronic conditions that may be present. 3) If the vet doesn't feel as though you are an active client, they see no need to jump out of bed at 2am to service an emergency. I've also known people who started doing their own vet work, and when they DID need a vet for a colic or such, everyone they called turned them down, saying they only service their clients after hours, and they should contact their primary vet. Primary vet said "who are you? I haven't been to your barn in years, contact your primary vet". SOL.

I ALWAYS encourage people who want to do their own vaccines to talk to their vet first. Some vets will be very supportive. Some vets know their clients and know its not in their horses' best interest to have their owners vaccinate them. Other vets will want their business and tell them no. Other vets will sell them the vaccines at a discounted rate and not charge for administration, so both parties win. Plus, someone needs to teach the horse owners how to give a safe injection. Where, how to pull back, what to do if blood is hit, how deep, what dose, etc etc etc. Definitely talk to your vet before just jumping in!

First of all I want to clarify my first post, I have nothing against clients vaccinating their own horses, my concern was that I didn't think the original poster was given adequate information from the Primary Vet. I hope that I am incorrect.

Secondly, although I agree with most of the above post and I understand different areas will have different price structures, vaccines are not usually a high markup item. Additionally, I just compared what I bought vaccines for through my distributors versus what I could purchase them for online and the prices were essentially equal. Vaccines may create a lot of gross, but they do not create much net.

Dr Taylor

 

[Sue_C.]

Also several years ago I had horses come down with stuff even after vac for it. When I asked the vet about it and how much they actually work the response was something along the lines of "its a preventative they dont necessarly work but if people want to pay us to do them, then we will".

Well, my reply to that would be that all Vets are not equal...and this "vet" is less equal than most, IMO.

Yes, a horse can still come down with something like a flu after having the shots, but it will not be nearly as sick as those who didn't have the shots, and less likely to suffer permanent damage to the lung for example.

A good friend of mine's sister thought to save herself a few bucks and didn't do shots this year either. She also just lost a nice mare to EEE, so easily prevented...such a terrible and totally unnecessary death for that mare.

 

[Sandy B]

First of all I want to clarify my first post, I have nothing against clients vaccinating their own horses, my concern was that I didn't think the original poster was given adequate information from the Primary Vet. I hope that I am incorrect.

Secondly, although I agree with most of the above post and I understand different areas will have different price structures, vaccines are not usually a high markup item. Additionally, I just compared what I bought vaccines for through my distributors versus what I could purchase them for online and the prices were essentially equal. Vaccines may create a lot of gross, but they do not create much net.

Dr Taylor

I agree Dr. Taylor. Your local feed and tack stores may mark the vaccines up to make more money, but buying your vaccines via catalog companies or from your vet directly are about the same (usually lower than those local feed store prices). There is hardly any profit on them. My vet is more than happy to sell me what I need (I buy 10 dose vials) at a great price. Prices depend on brand and what the vaccine is as well. My vet knows that I am very capable of doing my own vaccinations and he and I stay in communication year round any way in regards to issues or potential issues. He is my consult for anything health related and he knows when I call him and say "I need you now" it is serious. I good relationship with your vet is always essential. I am lucky to have several fantastic vets in town or nearby towns.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Most of the vets I've worked for marked up between $5 and $10 per vaccine. So they were easily making 30-50 per horse. Times a barn of 20 horses, is a thousand dollars profit for an hour's time. They can certainly be money makers! Don't get me wrong, I have NOTHING against that. Hey, it payed my salary too!

 

[iowa]

I had an amusing experience with my vet. I had ordered 30 doses of West Nile vaccine from him and he brought it down when he came for Coggins tests on some of the show horses. He did that and put the box of vaccine out and I started out to the stalls where the horses that were to receive the WN were waiting. When I turned around the vet wasn't there! I went back to where I had left him and he had left! I guess he was O.K. with me giving my own shots. I just thought they were one the vet had to give, like rabies, but was wrong. Kind of surprised me, but now I know he doesn't care if I give my own. It was something we hadn't really talked about before.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

We do our own vaccines except for rabies. Our vets don't mind, and we do use them for Coggins and other necessary things like floats and of course, emergencies.

 

[horsenut50]

Seeing that a lot of people on here shy away from Fort Dodge, why? I worked for a vet for years who used it and he never said anything bad about the vaccine so I'm a little confused as to why it's bad. I have used Triple EFT on my horses since the 1980's and have never once had a reaction. I know people also shy away from a shot that has multiple vaccines in it but once again after using this for a very long time and having no reaction I have been comfortable giving it. Should I be concerned with giving Fort Dodge shots?

 

[Minimor]

We frequently use Ft. Dodge vaccines; often it is the only brand that the clinics here sell so we have little choice. (Though here it is under the brand name Pfizer) We've had no problems at all with their vaccines in all the years we've used them.

The Ft. Dodge WNV vaccine offers a shorter term immunity than Merial or Prevenile but for us it is sufficient because we do not have a long mosquito season. We usually vaccinate in late May/first week of June and then 4 months later we're finished with mosquito season anyway.

My favorite vaccine is the FD combo shot that has EWT + WNV

The only reaction we've ever had to a FD vaccine was with one 2 year old Morgan gelding that we bought--when we gave him his 1st shot he had a very stiff neck for about 2 days. With the booster a month later he had just a slight bit of stiffness, not enough to cause him any problems but you could tell he was a little stiff. The following year he had no reaction at all.

 

[Jill]

I haven't read through this thread, but I will say that our vet fully expects us to do our on vaccines and encourages it. You don't have 20 some horses and lack the know how to do basic health maintenance, including vaccination. Plus, sometimes you need to know how to give medicinal shots to horses who are sick. I would recommend anyone who owns a horse learn how to give IM shots.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Fort Dodge vaccines are older. This doesn't make them bad, just not necessarily as good as the newer ones on the market. What does make them less than ideal is the recent change (maybe 5 years now?) where they changed/increased/something'ed the adjunct in their vaccines. This chemical helps the vaccine work, and boosts the immune response. Most horses who react, don't react to the immunoglobulins, they react to the adjunct. So increasing this chemical increased reactions tenfold.

I do use some Fort Dodge products, including RabVac (10x cheaper than Merial's), Strep (the IN strangles vaccine is pretty much the only strangles vaccine out there, and frankly, it sucks), and Arvac (EVA, the only vaccine on the market for this disease). Everything else I get from other manufacturers.

 

[mydaddysjag]

I plan to do the fall tetanus myself (tomorrow actually) and I will do my Eastern, Western encephalomyelitis, tetanus, West Nile, flu/rhino, and strangles myself in the spring.

I don't plan to cut my vet out of the picture though. I will still be having them do rabies, coggins, checking/floating teeth (my new vet also specializes in dentistry). Of course any emergency care, and silly things like sheath cleaning if I have someone who isn't cooperative.

 

[~Lisa~]

The mark up of alot of prescription drugs as well as vaccines is pretty significant at my vet clinic- I do give my own most of the time and try to get prescriptions to purchase my own every day drugs my vets are fine with this I have paid a lot of money for other things over the years

Ashley while I know everyones opinion will differ I do have to say for what it is worth I agree with your choice. I personally feel we over vaccinate our animals to begin with and when you have aged horses in a closed herd I understand that choice it is a choice I have recently made for our aged quarter pony now that we have not taken anyone off the farm for shows and no one new is coming in the closet horses are a 35+ yr old and his pasture mate about 3 acres away and they too have not left their farm in well not once in the 10 years I have lived here

 

[ohmt]

A little off topic, but what Nathan said about adjuvants is true with human vaccinations too (I personally get live attenuated if given the choice-no adjuvant). When you have a reaction to a vaccine, it is almost always the adjuvant, not the virus. Some adjuvants can be very harmful which is why I space out all vaccinations and as he said, only use Fort Dodge for a couple.

The adjuvants are necessary to elicit an immune response. A 'killed' vaccine is missing one of the 'markers' needed to get your immune system to start making antibodies and the adjuvant provides it. So unfortunately, must have them.

 

[Sandy B]

I have not had a reaction to any Fort Doge vaccination in years'! The only one I have EVER had a reaction to was their combo vaccine with EW/T/F & WNV and it was a slight localized swelling on about 3 of the 10 that were vaccinated at that time. That was when it first came out but I never went back to it.

 

[Sue_C.]

Ashley while I know everyones opinion will differ I do have to say for what it is worth I agree with your choice. I personally feel we over vaccinate our animals to begin with and when you have aged horses in a closed herd I understand that choice it is a choice I have recently made for our aged quarter pony now that we have not taken anyone off the farm for shows and no one new is coming in the closet horses are a 35+ yr old and his pasture mate about 3 acres away and they too have not left their farm in well not once in the 10 years I have lived here

But even a "closed herd" situation should be inoculated against Tetanus, and mosquito borne diseases...that has NOTHING to do with other horses in contact. Besides...I know of no one who is seriously so far out of touch with other horse people that they NEVER have ANY contact with them. Now in the case of the 35 year old horse...I definitely concur...the shot alone might be too much for it...as will just about any sickness... fragile they can be at that age...but much more lucky than most.

Besides...over-inoculating or not, allergies aside, a few shots a year won't kill my horses, yet NOT giving the shots can. I opt to err on the side of caution. But yes, we do all have that option to not do what we can to protect them...but must be prepared to live with ourselves if, (like my friend's sister must) your decision kills your horse(s).