Driving bit questions from the newbie

[shorthorsemom]

Hi All, My current boy drives in a straight driving bit with a copper mouthpiece. It really doesn't have a port at all. My trainer has considered changing up his bit, but we haven't gotten any further than discussion, but I thought I would poll you ladies on the driving forum as to bit choices I could consider.. My boy drives well, has plenty of go, and on occasion not as much whoa, but we are working on that. He doesn't pull at all, but he does jig and get moving and on occasion opens his mouth while driving and does what my trainer calls "trying to get away with murder", not sure whether she means me or him being the problem, LOL, but I plan to ask on my next lesson. We are working on my hands. My boy is very sensitive and it only takes a wiggle of the finger and he is moving left or right, very responsive. I have a tendency to be too light (not enough contact) on my hands according to my trainer and my boy perfers gentle contact. With the reins run under the breast plate straps it is hard for me to feel contact with my inexperienced hands... I tended to be very light on my riding horses aw well for that matter..

On the way home he can get a bit zippy, but he is not in shape and after a hill or two he is easy. He does drive real nice, just mentioning a couple of characteristics so you know more about my little guy... That all said to give you a picture. My trainer said she is considering a bit that is gentle in the mouth and can be used gently, but would have a little more "Umph" should I need it in an emergency. My boy has one runaway situation from a dog attack in his past and although he has not repeated this former lack of control (knock on wood), we are always mindful that things of the past can crop up again given the right circumstances. Anyway... total newbie description, but can you please tell me what bit you like and why? thanks.. PS, his teeth are great, they were checked and floated a couple of months ago.

 

[RhineStone]

Bits don't stop horses. Horses' brains stop horses. If he is not stopping, it can be a couple of things.

#1 - He hasn't developed the muscles required to balance the load on a down transition. Give him time, proper dressage training, and make sure that you are using breeching to give him all the benefits possible to do so. How he backs the load may help you determine if it is a developmental issue. If he can't back it well, he probably can't stop it well yet, either.

#2 - He is making decisions he should not be allowed to make. Most of you have heard my stories about Alax and his former runaway life. We didn't change the bit, we changed how we handled him. He was not allowed to make any decisions including wiggling when harnessing, eating on a lead rope, etc. Jeff Morse says if they don't get to make little decisions, they won't make big ones like running away. It is part of developing trust and leadership within your "herd". There are a lot of minis I see that people let do whatever they want and then they wonder why their horse is difficult. I don't think that it is that bad for you, but I do bet that you need to go back and check where he is doing what he wants and not what you want. By golly, if you told him to stand somewhere, that is what he needs to do!

When he finally gives up "control", you will LOVE driving him! Even spooking is lessoned because the horse learns to trust that you have got it all together and will keep him safe.

#3 - Not using a strong enough bit for the nerves in the horse's mouth. Some horses have stronger mouths even before you put a bit in their mouth. I start all mine on a mullen snaffle and move from there as necessary. Alax has a strong mouth compared to my other minis, who have much the same mouth as you describe your horse having. Those horses don't need much bit, they usually need more balance.

We have rings on our breastcollar straps so that the reins slide a little easier. Yes, putting the reins under the breastcollar strap is a good idea to keep them out from under the shaft, but you can go one step farther. The Freedom Collars come with rings, and we custom ordered one from Driving Essentials. To not have contact on a driving horse is like hanging up the phone, according to Hardy Zantke. That is a major line of communication. It is a big disservice to the driving horse to not have contact on the reins. Not having contact may also be one reason he is making decisions, because by his account you aren't doing it (i.e. steering, stopping, balancing, etc.) Western pleasure horses that just have to follow the rail and can be neckreined can go without contact. Driving horses need contact. You can't neckrein or use your legs to steer. You have your whip some, but horses need that contact. That is why in a driven (or ridden) dressage test, the Free Walk on the long rein is testing to see if the horse will seek out contact from you ("Are you there, yet?"). Driving a horse that needs contact might help you develop the understanding of what contact is.

Myrna

 

[shorthorsemom]

Thanks Myrna, you sound like my trainer, I just was fishing around about bit choices on a whim here, I have a hunger for more and more information and value the opinions of all you seasoned drivers so very much. My trainer had me start my boy over from scratch like we were both green but we haven't done anything with the bit as yet, more working on balance and control. I like the idea of just scrapping my collar set upand getting something with rings so my reins slide and I can feel his mouth better. Do they make just the straps that you can put on the existing collar? I have a very nice collar and it fits him nicely. I am convinced it is my approach that makes him open his mouth and jig and I told my trainer that on my last lesson. I don't want to start using the cavasson (can;t spell that) to shut the mouth, when my hands are the problem. Will have to think about that one...

. He stops and stands for me, but he is a smart little cookie and we are trying to change up the course so he doesn't think ahead of us and predict what we want depending on where we are on the trail, such as we trot here... we walk here... now we go home etc.

In reading your post, some of what my trainer does that has made me raise an eyebrow now makes sense. She does insist on a PERFECT stand and if my boy so much as sneaks a blade of grass while driving or being hooked up or does a snatch and grab move while we are working on something she will walk right up to his head and nit-pick every tiny piece of grass right back out of his mouth. She tells him he isn't behaved enough to sneak treats. She is very tough but not mean, and he doesn't get away with a lick of anything and she is teaching me to be as firm too. She is quick with the praise too and in the past he got grumpy when we were going out for a drive and now he gives kisses and wants to go out and he really does like the new cart.

I do love driving him and he is trusting me too because a couple of things that have popped up unexpectedly he started to spook and then looked back for re-assurance and moved on. I know we are on the right path, just wondered about the straight bit choice we are using out of curiosity. We are lessoning spooking, my trainer makes me run over cones on occasion and has me run a wheel into high grass on the edge of the trail. I think my message should be trust my seasoned trainer and don't give up lessons and fly completely solo anytime soon

PS. any photos of the breast collar with the rings would be appreciated.. thanks a million for your posting...

Adair

 

[RhineStone]

Some harness makers will custom make breastcollar straps with rings. I know Driving Essentials does, but you will need to know where the buckles on the breastcollar are and other assorted measurements.

It sounds like you are on the right track with his training, so it might just take more time.

I do think that a mullen or an arch mouth bit fits the horse better than a true straight mouth.

Myrna

 

[targetsmom]

Here is a photo of a harness showing the rings on the breast collar you were asking about.

Also, here is link to a video of a recent driving lesson I took practicing halts. Don't know if this will help you or not but including it in case it does. BTW, I start my minis with a mullen mouth but this is a Myler mullen mouth.

 

[LazyRanch]

I also ordered my harness (Zimmermann's) with the rings up on the breast collar hanger. I figured, as a new driver, it would likely steady my novice rein. Our other harness does not have these and I have seen a big difference in both horses - all for the better.

Our horse who has competed all his life does so in a simple broken half cheek bit. I think, for some things it isn't quite the correct bit, but leave him in it, even if he is a little strong. I periodically consider a liverpool, though.

My combined horse came in a mullen half cheek, which was not at all suitable. After posting questions on this board, and getting valuable advice on bitting from both Leia and Myrna, I looked at PJ's mouth and realized there was very little room in there. With the mullen being unjointed, each take on one side resulted in a push forward on the other side, which was unpleasant to him. Even the slight rounding of his mullen was too much. And PJ had learned to back off the bit entirely, rather than take a more aggressive stance. Unlike Rascal, who simply grabbed the bit and went about his merry way.

I tried several bits and finally found a Myler Comfort Snaffle. Each side has little copper inlays, and the center has a narrow roller in it.. There are also multiple settings for more or less bite of the rein. In the last 6 months, PJ has developed enough faith in this bit that he is now holding it on his own. I can use one rein to lift a shoulder, should he decide to lean on it, and without affecting what is happening on the other side.

I will say, since using this bit, he has gained enough confidence in the bit that he is trying other types of evasions. I cannot complain about this as they all require him to actually hold the bit, and are usually easily worked out. I'd much rather have that, than him being afraid to hold the bit at all!

 

[shorthorsemom]

I guess I should have said my current bit is a half cheek mullen straight bit (not a snaffle) with a copper mouthpiece. I have a couple of other bits here, but that is the bit he came to me in. Anybody want to comment on what I am currently using?

On another note, we drove yesterday and today and he was very well behaved and had his listening and thinking cap on. It was so much fun.

 

[RhineStone]

I guess I should have said my current bit is a half cheek mullen straight bit (not a snaffle) with a copper mouthpiece. Anybody want to comment on what I am currently using?

Like LazyRanch said, it really depends on the conformation of the horse's mouth and the progression of his training. There is no one miracle bit (if there was, we would all invest in it!

), so it sometimes comes down to educated trial and error.

Myrna

 

[hobbyhorse23]

I tried several bits and finally found a Myler Comfort Snaffle. Each side has little copper inlays, and the center has a narrow roller in it.. There are also multiple settings for more or less bite of the rein.

There are?

There aren't as far as I know from talking to the manufacturer and reading the Myler book! The cute little ball and divider in the middle are not meant for using in a rough-cheek setting as you would on a Liverpool but rather for keeping the check attachment separate from the driving lines (and presumably other reasons but I'm not sure what those are).

Leia